Red Dead Redemption

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fannysmath

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Jun 18, 2010
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The survival system Yahtzee suggests seems unnecessary. In order to improve the game you need simply to follow the following steps.

1. Increase the need for money- All the mini games and sidequests would seem more worthwhile if you actually needed money for something. This could simply be achieved by getting rid of regenerating health and dead eye (making medicine and chewing tobacco actually useful). The prices of houses could be raised and weapons would have to be bought (or stolen) instead of being given out at the start of missions. Also items, as well as money, should be able to be stolen from stores and you could only shop at that store again if you paid for/ gave back the items you stole.

2. Add more RPG elements to the development of your character- At the start of the game John's accuracy and skills already seem super human. the game would seem more fulfilling if your characters abilities grew more obviously throughout the game. Accuracy and range of fire should start off fairly poor but could be increased by purchasing better fire arms and completing certain challenges(such as sharpshooter challenges). Health capacity could be increased by mixing and using plants that you find in the wilderness (aswell as sealing or purchasing pre made concoctions from stores). Dead eye level would vary depending on the quality of sleep you had (encouraging you to buy better houses and improve your camp-site). Buying better knives and bait would affect the type of animals you attract and the speed at which you skin them. Buying stronger lassos would increase your range and make breaking wild horses easier.

3. Fame and honour affect game play more obviously- I played half the game as a law abiding kiss ass and the other half as a outlaw badass. I never really felt a large difference between the two (besides from some slight changes in prices in certain places and the occasional citizen muttering something along the lines of "John Marsden is a good guy" or "John Marsden is a complete bastard" ). Your honor and fame levels should vary depending on the area you inhabit. This could easily be displayed on your map. ie. In Armadillo you have robbed from stores and killed civilians. In this town and surrounding areas you are a feared outlaw, inhabitants cower and lock themselves inside as soon as you step foot in town. Wanted posters with your face are plastered everywhere. Bounty hunters and law men track you down whilst outlaws and gang members take you under their arm, asking you to take hostages and rob trains. In Mexico however you are seen as a revolutionary hero. People praise your good deeds and you would be treated like a god in the towns you visit. Gang members would show increased hostility towards you, making gang hideouts more difficult and increasing the number of ambushes and duel challenges.

Other ways to improve the supposed disconnection of all the elements within RDR would be to add an RPG like feature to the development of your horse. You could choose to buy better saddles and shoes to increase the horses stamina. You could also steal these items from stores or hijack a horse and take them off that horse (or simply keep that horse). Carriages should also be able to be attached to your horse (stronger horses such as Kentucky saddler could carry larger carriages). Perhaps weapons and items could be stored in these carriages (imagine being able to mount a gattling gun to your wagon and travel around causing wanton destruction everywhere you go). Your horse would lose the carriage but not the upgradable items when it dies and all upgrades could be transferred to any horse that you hitch up. Maybe when you whistle for a horse whilst out in the wilderness a malnourished slow horse appears but not being able to whistle for your horse would become increasingly frustrating.
 

eyedonutkair

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Feb 6, 2009
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I have yet to play Red Dead, but I want to take a moment to be Captain Obvious and declare that Ben is a 10 out of 5. Thank you for existing!
 

THGhost

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Mar 18, 2009
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And just WHAT is wrong with 3DO's Army Men franchise, Yahtzee? Please explain yourself because those games are legendary.
 

droppingpenny

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Feb 27, 2010
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I don't know, while I like the proposition the Autor makes here for improving the game experience, he sounds to me like someone who is never satisfied with anything, like he forgot how to have fun, and would rather see every game to be changed in busywork.
 

Elf Defiler Korgan

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Apr 15, 2009
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Really good ideas Yahtzee. This is how I run a D&D game of mine, set in a sort of failed conquistadore south america. They took a third of the territory from the Mwangis and are now under the thumb of pirates and constantly fighting the wild tribes, monsters, demon worshipping cultists and coordinated native city states that remain. The players, well they are generally selfish opportunists in all this. The environment is truly dangerous and after they almost died in their first desert trek, then in their first lengthy jungle loot haul, they made sure they were ready to cross the savannah under the baking sun.

Food, water, shelter these become very important, and in the Mwangi expanse that surrounds Sargava, one is never safe. This doesn't stop them trying to use magic to get around the problem, but it is a low magic setting (ha!).

Red Dead Redemption would be better with the suggested survival option. Maybe a patch or a mod will follow, but I think we won't see it from the retarded lovers of safety.
 

Elf Defiler Korgan

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Apr 15, 2009
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Burnhardt said:
While I do agree that a survival mechanic would have been nice, and would certainly like to see it either implemented as an option or a mod for the PC version (that is if Rockstar aren't dicks with some stupid form of DRM) my biggest problem with RDR is the world itself. Like most of the 'Open-world' games before it the only person that matters in it is you and you alone.

It doesn't feel lived in.
Yes! This is exactly why I disliked Assassin's Creed 2. In the time of the famed cities of Italy and no one is doing anything in particular.
 

pytlo

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Feb 19, 2009
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one can't help but wonder if any of these at one point really trudged the minds of the developers while making this game. Eventually abandoning these potentially inovative ideas for the sake of appealing to the broader, more casual audience.
 

brumley53

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Oct 19, 2009
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I think that they didnt actually want you to go killing everyone, because john marston is always talking about how he left his days of killing for fun behind him. i think the only reason you could do it is because rockstar wanted to be able to sell it to all the GTA fans who just want to shoot people on the street.
 

Gralian

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Sep 24, 2008
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Interesting viewpoint, but it sounds like you're just trying to add a slightly different variation on the 'COUSIN! WE SHOULD GO AND GET DRUNK TOGETHER!' mechanic that so many people (including yourself i believe) bitched about to no end. It's just another way of annoying the player into abiding by its rules. As great as wild west fantasies sound of nicking pies and rustling folk off their horses sound, it just never plays that way in the game world. I'm sure people expected a different wanted mechanic in GTA for example where the police don't instantly know where you are before they've even deployed the chopper. If you add survival mechanics like hunger and shit, it'll just cause so much more irritation for gamers. God knows it pissed me off in Stalker: Call of Pripyat and indeed the Sims, which somebody mentioned much earlier on.
It also felt like the majority of the first page was just filler, whining about modernisation.

Moaning aside, i do see your point, although i often have no problem at all causing trouble - i drag people through towns for a laugh and occasionally see if i can headshot a lone bloke on a horse as i'm about to ride past him for kicks. I even kidnapped a prostitute, tied her up and put her on the horse, and dragged some poor fool out of town into some wolves to chow down upon, before placing the tied-up wench on the tracks to watch her get run over. I laughed when the achievement popped. Rockstar must have quite the sense of humour; i was only doing it to fufill my own sadistic desires. But there's a point to this tale, sometimes i'd rope up a bandit in town, and having saved the damsel i'd carry him out to the middle of nowhere and grin as i put a bullet in his frightened face. More often than not someone hears the shot and goes to tell the law; and my bounty builds up. I suppose if you just follow the missions like a robot and go from one sidequest to the other you won't have any issues with the law, but i always seemed to. Even from something as basic as accidentally running over a lawman in town when on my horse, or getting pissed off with a blackjack dealer and shooting him dead, causing everyone in the bar to whip out their guns and start shooting back as i make a break for it.

This is the true definition of the 'sandbox genre'. The freedom to do this, and to get away with it. Survival mechanics put limitations on you and your ability and freedom to play the game by forcing you to munch on one of the many ham sandwiches you undoubtedly bought out from the local general store.
 

Thomas Bambust

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Mar 16, 2010
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I love the "survival" idea. Though I think it will actually be made in the future, I'd prefer it if it was implemented in to the RDR gameplay.

http://mycroft-woodsman.blogspot.com/2010/06/storytelling.html
 

Jaebird

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Aug 19, 2008
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The "Survival Mode" does sound like it could make the game more challenging, if not for the fact that it would turn the game into a Sim. I'm guessing The Sims 3: Red Dead Dungeons & Dragons Redemption didn't quite work in the developer's meeting room.
 

ImprovizoR

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Dec 6, 2009
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The only game that did survival right was Morrowind. Oblivion was close but it had that fast travel system. In Morrowind you had to plan your trip and bring certain things and chose a path that wont get you killed. It was awesome. Especially the first time when you're just exploring everything for the first time. I'd like to see more games focus on that.
 

Misterian

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Oct 3, 2009
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Survival mechanic, eh?

I know Fallout: New Vegas is trying something like that with it's Hardcore Mode, which might add more to the post-apocolyptic experiance as in those days you have to expect search throughly for food or clean water just to make it from day to day.

the only thing about it that has me concerned is that in Hardcore Mode, ammo has weight, which is something you want to be concerned about next time you decide to fight a Super Mutant.

sorry if that's going off-topic.
 

Swifteye

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Apr 15, 2010
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droppingpenny said:
I don't know, while I like the proposition the Autor makes here for improving the game experience, he sounds to me like someone who is never satisfied with anything, like he forgot how to have fun, and would rather see every game to be changed in busywork.
That's a funny thing to say because when he has his games turned into busy work he complains about that. It's almost like yahtzees job to complain about things. I know technically it is but like things he will like in one game won't like in another. It's very two faced.

I really don't like this article. Last two were pretty good but this one is a bit. Well it reeks of someone who's a bit full of themselves talking from there bum. Sure he has point. But it's all chaotic neutral. I don't know. It's like one of those things where the second someone says something you know your gonna disagree and it becomes something that will spur a heated argument that will just make everyone upset with eachother. This kinda feels like a ramble so I won't go to far. I think this article is very stressful because it always brings up the element where yathzee rags on society. And being in society I don't appericate the complete lack of respect he seems to give.
 

Guitar Gamer

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Apr 12, 2009
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You took the words right out of my mouth Yahtzee.
hopefully "Fallout: New Vegas" takes the "hardcore mode" as far you as you talked about it here
 

silversun101

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Nov 12, 2009
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Somebody call Rockstar. I want that Survival Mode implemented via DLC as soon as humanly possible!

As for how the rest of the game stacks up, I personally couldn't bear to put the thing down. I think what drew me towards this game (and this was a gamble even buying it, by the way; I had to weigh my love of westerns vs my despise of GTA) is the character of John Marston himself. For the first time in a long time i was playing a Rockstar character that I didn't immediately want to hurl head first through a plate glass window. You see, in most RS games you have the freedom to do things that, in real life, would label you as a complete psychopath. Instead of trying to mold a good, likable character that would clash with the player's natural inclinations for wonton murder and destruction, RS said "fuck it" and made all the GTA characters as sadistic is the gamers themselves. But with John Marston, his plight makes me WANT to be the hero, I WANT to be the redeemed outlaw trying to make things right. So when RDR gives me the tools to cause chaos and death, I say "No, I'd rather channel the silent, mysterious defender of the weak, as in Eastwood's Pale Rider, or perhaps John Wayne's upholder of justice, Jake Cutter."

If one of the draws of a good sandbox game is choice, is it so bad that I choose to stand on the right side of the law? Isn't it commendable that RS is finally starting to think outside of their narrow box?
 

voetballeeuw

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May 3, 2010
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I think that a survival mechanic is a very interesting idea. The game would definately be strengthened by it. There should definately be an on off button though.
 

droppingpenny

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Feb 27, 2010
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Swifteye said:
That's a funny thing to say because when he has his games turned into busy work he complains about that. It's almost like yahtzees job to complain about things. I know technically it is but like things he will like in one game won't like in another. It's very two faced.

I really don't like this article. Last two were pretty good but this one is a bit. Well it reeks of someone who's a bit full of themselves talking from there bum. Sure he has point. But it's all chaotic neutral. I don't know. It's like one of those things where the second someone says something you know your gonna disagree and it becomes something that will spur a heated argument that will just make everyone upset with eachother. This kinda feels like a ramble so I won't go to far. I think this article is very stressful because it always brings up the element where yathzee rags on society. And being in society I don't appericate the complete lack of respect he seems to give.
He sounds to me more like a person who is complaining for the sake of complaining, not for the sake of being constructive or improving the actual gaming experience. Like someone who disagrees on purpose with the popular opinion regardless if he is right or wrong, more like he is desperately trying to get attention, like a dog doing tricks to get food, to describe it his way. I haven't read his other Articles yet and I don't want to sound disrespectfull, but particularly in the first page of the article he bites off more than he can chew by taking on the society without really understanding it, and more for the sake of sounding smarter than he is.
 

Vohn_exel

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Oct 24, 2008
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See thats why I think it's wrong to call RDR a sandbox game. It isn't. It's a story game with sandbox qualities. The idea was to give you the feel of the end of the west, where being an outlaw isn't really an option anymore. It was about the experience and the entertainment. Yes it might be a paddling pool, but it's one with hookers and jets that shoot flame high into the air. If it's a toddler's "activity center" it's one with a button that shoots lazers.

The things that you mentioned would have made the game better if indeed the idea was to be evil. It's not though, the game constantly makes John out to be a good guy, caught up in a situation beyond his control. I for one was glad to have a Rockstar character that wasn't just another law breaking "thug." However, the things you described making this game better would work better for me if it was in a prequel.

Those ideas could be easily implemented as you said, and it would give the feel that this is truly the wild west that you get a taste of in RDR. This would be the wild west that has all but died out in RDR's current timeline. It would definitely give the feeling of the entire game a different feel, and make it seem like you were in a wilder time.