Regarding Mass Effect 3: Angry players might actually have a point.

[5mj7R7yf4Dwr3gdZyyu9PeGNwYjlNrjzuh3iTXQG]

So wow.

Mass Effect 3 [http://masseffect.com/] was released.

And then everyone raged hard that the ending(s) sucked

And then dudez with opinion editorial columns (or videos or whatever) raged hard at the players raging hard at the truly sucky ending.

And wow. A lot of interesting shit is happening in all this.

Someone complained to the FTC [http://www.gamepur.com/news/7426-fans-filing-ftc-complaints-against-ea-after-mass-effect-3-ending.html]. For a $60 game that sucked, I might complain too.

Some guys formed a got shut down for complicated reasons [http://www.facebook.com/DemandABetterEndingToMassEffect3?_fb_noscript=1].

The word entitled (entitling, entitlement, etc.) became confirmed as the charged buzzword for when someone wants something someone else doesn't think he or she deserves. This has been developing in regards to other subjects[footnote]Pirates feel entitled to free content. Studios and labels feel entitled to customers' money. Impoverished people feel entitled to benefits such as food, shelter, power, etc. Wealthy people feel entitled to keeping all their money.[/footnote] but now it's cinched as just a word you throw out there because you don't have a better point to make. Entitled has the same value to this discourse as to protect the children and then the terrorists win.[footnote]Because, as you know, we're playing Counterstrike.[/footnote] To whomever's used this word in print referring to fans of ME3: I am disappointed in you.

Art has been dilineated from product. I'm going to address this elsewhere [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.358558-Regarding-Mass-Effect-3-Artistic-Integrity-and-the-doom-of-gaming-as-an-artistic-medium].

So it's been decided that if Bioware changes the ending, this might set a precedent that folks might listen to the fan base, and we don't want to do that...why? Because fans are stupid [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ViewersAreMorons].

For those who think this way: 1) Way to go insulting every last one of your readers, and 2) why do you do this job if that's the opinion of your audience? Regardless, it's bullshit. Yes, the average IQ might be 100, and that's just a bit above gorilla, but we seem to be able to tell the difference between a contrived Xanatos Gambit [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShaggyDogStory]. I'm not the ruler of a globe-spanning empire, and my sociology/political science may be rusty, but it doesn't take a genius to figure this out: We have mass crowds ready to burn down Bioware for setting them up for awesomeness and not delivering, and they're on rampage not because some charismatic figure worked them into a tizzy, but they each experienced a personal betrayal by Bioware and even paid for the privilege. I think they might actually have a point.

I haven't played ME3, myself, since I cannot (in clear conscience) accept the Origin terms of service, so in a way it is actually a relief that it appeared phoned in even before the endings controversy [http://youtu.be/kjlZ-Bp41Ww]. I haven't seen the different endings. I had figured out generally how bad things are, but not specifically what happens. But to those who've been raging against the ragers, a reminder of what is worse than complaining to Bioware (or any business, really), that being:

Not complaining to Bioware. In fact, that's what happening. For every voice you hear that you have mocked or dismissed or pretended to acknowledge before deciding they're a bunch of whiny jackasses, there's a dozen or so players who have silently written off Bioware as yet another development company that's been fucked over and then consumed by the EA black hole. Those people don't care what Bioware produces in the future. They're not going to give them another chance. Some won't give EA another chance. And for those of you who fear for the game industry, it withered significantly due to this whole debacle.

On the other hand, many people did complain because, you see, these are the guys who want to give Bioware another chance. Bioware appears to have realized (and actually care) that it really fucked up Maybe they'll learn how not to fuck up next time. And for the sake of their future titles (if they have any future titles) that's a good thing. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AndThatsTerrible]

238U
EDIT: Added a link to the artistic validity issue [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.358558-Regarding-Mass-Effect-3-Artistic-Integrity-and-the-doom-of-gaming-as-an-artistic-medium].
Update featuring Cupcakes! [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.358532-Regarding-Mass-Effect-3-Angry-players-might-actually-have-a-point#14165994]

 

[BoogityBoogityMan]

Good post. Each day my cynicism grown regarding the gaming industry. Today it was the viral marketing thread. It makes so much sense that there are paid trolls on virtually every gaming forum.

And really I have to ask myself, do I want to participate in this hobby where manipulation and the shafting of customers is the norm. Should I buy some woodworking gear instead?

 

[Smiley Face]

The main argument I see being thrown around by the 'shut up' crowd is that the 'fix it' crowd feels they have a right to get what they want, and that the ending would 'compromise artistic integrity'.

The former argument is a misunderstanding of the situation - I think everyone's aware they don't have rights to the material, the situation as it stands is that the ending is demonstrably poor - it SHOULD be different, ideally, and there is no strong reason why this shouldn't be corrected. So folks are angry that it isn't different in the first place, and also that it hasn't been corrected. They know they have no rights, but that doesn't mean they can't make noise until the people who do either justify their actions or fix things.

The second argument isn't as cut and dry as they make it out to be - is it better, artistically, to keep an ending you feel is bad, or to make a massively better one and 'compromise' the original product?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The second argument isn't as cut and dry as they make it out to be - is it better, artistically, to keep an ending you feel is bad, or to make a massively better one and 'compromise' the original product?

As the product in question allows for multiple endings and multiple permutations of canon to exist in the first place, I've yet to hear a compelling argument for why adding more would compromise it in any discernible way. Is there a set limit for how many branching possibilities a game can contain before it scoots over the threshold of artistic integrity?

 

[MiloP]

I actually took a step back and looked at myself ten or so minutes ago, and realised that I was, in fact, raging at the ragers.

I think it was just because the whole thing seemed silly to me. Complaining that an entire game (and trilogy, as some people have said) was ruined by the last twenty minutes just seemed a bit...off, to me. I just thought that, in the grand scheme of things, Mass Effect 3 was getting a bad rap, considering every part before the ending was absolutely awesome (a sentiment mostly shared with the ending haters), so I thought it was unfair for rage against BioWare when they've actually crafted a lovely game, for the most part.

I just thought, sometimes games have underwhelming endings. You accept it and you move on, it's nothing that hasn't happened in a hundred games before this one and doubtless will happen many times after. I think it was just the massive Crusade with a capital C that came from something which, in my eyes, was quite trivial in the grand scheme of things.

But yeah. I'm stepping back from this argument now. I loved the game, hell, I even thought the ending was pretty cool, and it'll probably be a GOTY candidate for me. But arguing about it isn't going to change anything at this stage, BioWare know that a lot of the fans aren't best pleased so there's no point me trying to talk anyone around.

In a perfect world, I'd honestly hope for the ME3 arguments to stop. BioWare have got the message, and you're not gonna get someone to re-evaluate their opinion just by bludgeoning them with yours, not for something as polarizing as this.

TL;DR, I liked Mass Effect, and BioWare have got the message so can he hold the hate off for a bit?

 

[MiloP]

The second argument isn't as cut and dry as they make it out to be - is it better, artistically, to keep an ending you feel is bad, or to make a massively better one and 'compromise' the original product?

As the product in question allows for multiple endings and multiple permutations of canon to exist in the first place, I've yet to hear a compelling argument for why adding more would compromise it in any discernible way. Is there a set limit for how many branching possibilities a game can contain before it scoots over the threshold of artistic integrity?

I think it was less about adding more, but more if they completely re-tooled the ending, re-did it, different choices and everything. If BioWare pulled that out, then we can dust off this artistic integrity argument for use later on

Okay, NOW I'm done arguing about Mass Effect 3. For real this time.

 

[Drifter117]

No.no.no.
I would just like to say that this is my own opinion, i don't think any others are wrong per say, i just think its wrong to demand a different ending.
Personally, i liked it. What was the expectation? Everything would be fluffy bunnies forever? No.
At the end of the day it is Bioware's story, characters and world. They can do whatever the hell they want with it, and while we may complain (I've done my fair share) it's probably best to realise that there's not a damn thing we can do to change it. And what right do we have? I've seen someone argue that they were a big fan of the series, and so felt entitled to a satisfactory ending. In truth, they didn't, they were a fan because they had picked up Mass Effect and Enjoyed it, and in turn bought the other two.
As long as we have fun, what's the harm? So you get a little pissed at the ending.
I'm just saying that I liked it, and don't particularly care about the others complaining, their loss. You can take that for what its worth.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Of course we have a point. We're not retarded, we know what we're talking about. But I am starting to question the intelligence and integrity of most video game journalists who can't seem to understand why we're so angry. Or maybe they don't want to understand. Even the ones on The Escapist.
Movie Bob didn't even play the fuckin' game, yet he thinks he's some kind of authority on it. Yahtzee couldn't give a flying fuck about Mass Effect, he didn't even bother checking out why we're angry before stating his half-baked opinion, so how can his opinion be more valid than the one of a real fan who spent hundreds of hours and hundreds of dollars on the game? And those journalists who get these games for free have no fuckin' right to criticize fans. They don't have to buy all these games.
The artistic integrity argument is so fuckin' retarded in day and age of DLC. Bioware has no right to even mention artistic integrity after day one paid DLC and that Tali stock image Photoshop.
It's not that difficult to figure out who's right and who's wrong here.

 

[MiloP]

It's hard to call it a matter of right and wrong when this whole brew-ha-ha came from a completely subjective starting point.

 

[Nimcha]

Nobody has any point anymore, it's all a convaluted mess of fanboys shouting at each other. The original conflict has already been completely forgotten and now it seems to be sidetracked into some sort of 'debate' about 'are games art' again. Which is completely irrelevant to the actual confusion anyway.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Good post. Each day my cynicism grown regarding the gaming industry. Today it was the viral marketing thread. It makes so much sense that there are paid trolls on virtually every gaming forum.

And really I have to ask myself, do I want to participate in this hobby where manipulation and the shafting of customers is the norm. Should I buy some woodworking gear instead?

It's pretty common in movies too, to be fair, just not to the incredible degree it is in Videogames

For every voice you hear that you have mocked or dismissed or pretended to acknowledge before deciding they're a bunch of whiny jackasses, there's a dozen or so players who have silently written off Bioware as yet another development company that's been fucked over and then consumed by the EA black hole. Those people don't care what Bioware produces in the future. They're not going to give them another chance. Some won't give EA another chance. And for those of you who fear for the game industry, it withered significantly due to this whole debacle.

On the other hand, many people did complain because, you see, these are the guys who want to give Bioware another chance. Bioware appears to have realized (and actually care) that it really fucked up Maybe they'll learn how not to fuck up next time. And for the sake of their future titles (if they have any future titles) that's a good thing.

To be understood...

 

[BloatedGuppy]

It's hard to call it a matter of right and wrong when this whole brew-ha-ha came from a completely subjective starting point.

You said you were done and then you posted again! I'll never believe you again! Never! (runs out of the room sobbing)

 

[MiloP]

It's hard to call it a matter of right and wrong when this whole brew-ha-ha came from a completely subjective starting point.

You said you were done and then you posted again! I'll never believe you again! Never! (runs out of the room sobbing)

I CAN'T HELP IT PEOPLE KEEP SAYING THINGS AND THEN I WANT TO SAY THINGS

I'm certainly done with letting these arguments bother me as much as they have, at any rate.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

I like this human! He understands. Especially on the E word, that's annoying me to no end.

 

[Gennadios]

Meh, I stopped trusting the gaming press around the time of DAII's release. They are not on the consumers side and what they say has about the same as IGNs review score after one of their pundits was embedded into a game.

Nothing wrong with entitlement, it's a consumer reaction and the product was unsatisfactory. People are even willing to pay extra for an overhaul, Bioware fell ass backwards into a possible cash cow.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

I keep hearing these damn phrases over and over again about 'Artistic integrity' and how changing the ending would compromise it and 'Set a bad precedent'.

These are all incredibly vague terms, people who want the ending changed realise that the ending just did no befit the rest of the experience, you can see how passionate fans are over this and after 90+ hours of crafting our own Shepards in a rich universe with so much to explore, is anyone really surprised?

But yeah my main problem with all these article writers are that they pat each other on the back and essentially write the same damn page every time, I haven't seen a single one of them actually address peoples gripes with the ending, yes we've heard for the thousandth time that Bioware are entitled to create an ending of their choosing and some paraphrasing of every other artistic integrity argument, but why not actually tell us what you think of the glaring plotholes, massive change in tone and generally dismissal of all other choices?

I had hopes for Yahtzees column as he's normally pretty good at these things, but then he just bandwagon'd off of every other article and gave us the same drivel.

I still think Angry Joe had the best to say on this.

 

[Jay Knowles]

the thing that gets me is I like the OP cant bring myself to accept origins' TOS, so i haven't played any recent ea titles, but i empathize with the people who did buy the game and support them, but i feel that the people raging against them are doing what any good debater does, changes the issue and argues that point.
when moviebob did his thing both here and on screw attack i didn't feel as though he really understood what people were so angry about, and i haven't seen a convincing argument to why the people who bought the game should stfu (to e fair i haven't seen a convincing argument the other way, but im on their side so they don't need one...)

 

[Madman123456]

At this Point, i'm tired of the gaming Media. Worked out several Defenses against the most common Points from gaming Media.

In any future Discussion you are going to have about this, People may bring up that the Ending is an artistic Choice.
But the Way it was presented i got the artistic Choice *instead* of the Closure that was promised to me. Additionally, it came right out of nowhere.
This adds another Level of bad to the ending: by trying to force "Art" down Peoples throats instead of the Closure they wanted they will be very wary about Videogames being "Art".
Because "Art" is apparently something that takes over the "Fun", pushes it aside and leaves you hanging.

Frankly, if i don't got exactly what i paid for and instead the Creator jumps out and says: "instead of whatever you wanted, you get Art!"

This transforms Mass Effect 3 into what i'm going to call "Meta-art", because it shows us what People who are rather simpleminded from the Perspective of certain Pseudo-Intellectual "Artists" feared would happen when this Medium is established as an Art-form. Certain "Artists" are going to force their "Vision" upon us.

We had this entire Game full of lowbrow Fun, we had the "Non-Human must learn what it's like to be Human" bit. We had the "We must stand together" bit with rousing Speeches which could've fit into a certain Kind of Movies.
And then comes the Ending. After all the "Hoorah!" it feels like i'm being assaulted by "Art".

This isn't doing anything good for the Medium. If the "artistic Choice" Argument is applied, feel free to counter with this.
People paid for "Hoorah! in Space". And that is what they got until the last Moments where they are slapped with "Art".

Please do not forget the quotation marks around the Art. Art can be something that makes no Sense on first Glance but that you turn your Brain on and get the hidden Meaning.
While certainly not true for the me3 ending, it is debatable wether this can be called Art.

Feel free to use this when anyone hits you with "It's their artistic Choice!". Also, you can feel free to imagine them wearing a black Beret, drinking a vanilla Lattè and being rather pretentious.





Forcing something down your Throat and then calling it "Art" damages "Art" because "Art" is apparently something that stands in the Way of my Fun.
Anyone ever wondered why some People don't like the Prospect of gaming as a form of Art? This is why.
Even if one would accept that he is not intelligent enough to get the Art behind ME3's ending he would probably just stay away from anything like that in the Future and instead buy the next FPS instead.
Hitting People over the Head with Art is one of the Reasons why People will continue to buy more samey Shooters, if only us poor, apparently intellectually challenged Neanderthals will be spared this "Art" Thingy which can stand in the Way of the closure and anyone who says anything about it as branded as being rather simpleminded because of that.


Hitting People of the Head with "Art" is why People like Michael Bay are still in Business. Whatever he will spew all over the Screen, i can be certain that i wont be assaulted with what he thinks is "Art". Whenever i hear Moviebob complain about People who apparently tell him "Yeah Bro, not everything needs to be Art!" and then he chews out the Fans for wanting another Ending, thereby turning the "Mona Lisa into a Coloring Book" i'm with the "Bro's" on this one. When the entire Gaming Media is ok with something that is supposed to be "Art" standing in the Way of the Closure, then "Art" is going to be seen as something bad.

Apparently, random Stuff that makes me feel stupid for not getting it (or turn into a pretentious Art Snob who acts like this is all wonderful Art) can stand in for whatever i wanted and i am scolded for saying anything about that.
Gaming Media has lost all rights to complain about too much stupid samey Shooters that clutter up the Market.

You can not promise one thing, then deliver another and then tell People who are angry about it that they shouldn't be because it's Art. People will then buy Product that is "Art-free".

You should not withhold closure and instead give them "Art". "No Pudding after your Steak Dinner, here's some Art instead!".



At this Point, i'm actually warming up about the FTC Complaint thingy, because apparently the entire gaming Media has gone Nuts over this and acts against the Fans. Casey Hudson stupidly promised in an Interview that this is going to provide Closure. It didn't. False Advertisement Complaint ahoi!
Sure it's stupid and if People would've filed Complaints against Peter Molyneux for everytime he said something would be there and then it wasn't we'd have a Paper Shortage on this Planet.

But with the Gaming Media apparently firmly on the Side of "Games are Art and Bioware has all the right to force 'Art' upon the unsuspecting Costumer even if they didn't want or need it.",
this seems to be the only Possibility of freeing ourselves from "Art".

 

[Justanewguy]

No.no.no.
I would just like to say that this is my own opinion, i don't think any others are wrong per say, i just think its wrong to demand a different ending.
Personally, i liked it. What was the expectation? Everything would be fluffy bunnies forever? No.
At the end of the day it is Bioware's story, characters and world. They can do whatever the hell they want with it, and while we may complain (I've done my fair share) it's probably best to realise that there's not a damn thing we can do to change it. And what right do we have? I've seen someone argue that they were a big fan of the series, and so felt entitled to a satisfactory ending. In truth, they didn't, they were a fan because they had picked up Mass Effect and Enjoyed it, and in turn bought the other two.
As long as we have fun, what's the harm? So you get a little pissed at the ending.
I'm just saying that I liked it, and don't particularly care about the others complaining, their loss. You can take that for what its worth.

The problem with your argument here is that people aren't asking for fluffy bunnies forever. They're asking for an ending that provides closure for all three major aspects of the game. Yes, at the end of the day, it's Bioware's art, but it's also their product, and that's the big problem. There's only one medium that has a similar problem to Video Games (the fact that you don't know the ending until after buying the product) and that's writing. In terms of movies and art, you generally know whether you like it or not before purchasing.

When it comes to novels and video games, you don't have that understanding prior, and that has caused problems. I've heard the argument recently likening Mass Effect to Harry Potter, with people saying that JK Rowling shouldn't be forced to write more Potter if she doesn't want to. That said, I do genuinely believe that if she had written what people saw as an unsatisfactory ending, there would've been a major outcry as well. If, rather than writing a very fitting, very compelling ending to her series, she had pulled out a very lackluster ending with a Deus Ex Machina to "fix" everything, the fans would have gone ballistic. It would still have been up to Rowling whether she wanted to "fix" the ending, but there would've been a major outcry either way.

As well, there ARE precedents for changing an ending. The best example of this is Dickens' classic "Great Expectations." The ending of "Great Expectations" was changed just prior to publishing because the publisher felt the ending would be too depressing. This was a change that was influenced by the consumer, not the artist, and while it DID happen before the book was sold, the difference between the two is actually rather minute. "I Am Legend" is another example of this. The ending was changed in order to better appeal to the audience. Again, this happened prior to publishing, but ultimately it IS art being changed due to pressure to conform to the viewer's expectations. That doesn't make it any less of art.