Regarding Santa Claus [NO KIDS ALLOWED]

[Guffe]

The myth of santa claus comes from a real person and just like everything we usually make it child friendly so that kids can be kids for a small time of their lives.
I've been dressing up as santa for my moms friends kids a few years (I don't know the parents myself and only meet them at christmas) and the happines and smile for those 30 mins every christams MAKES my christmas, why can't people be happy?
I don't care if you call yourslef a realist. If someone can be made happy with stories, so what if you one day grow away from it, when you look back at it it's still great.
Making stuff for kids, fine example the Grimm Brother stories, no way I would have wanted to hear them as a kid but now the original stories are the badass ones.

 

[ExileNZ]

I was going to go for the proxy-for-God angle, but since we're keeping it nice I'll talk about something else.

See, my mother-in-law was traumatised by the discovery (she was only 7, and one Xmas her parents just said "Oh, by the way..."), so she never wanted to pass that on to her kids. As a result, my wife is adamant that we don't bring up our own (as yet unborn) kids to believe in him either.

Personally I think it's a bit of a shame - I figured it out for myself and was never terribly scarred by the whole thing.

 

[woodaba]

Look this does not matter if it is truth fiction real or fake this santa clause was once adopted as a story of old saint nick from germany where the parents were to poor to promote such an idea where saint nick was an old toy maker that whittled in his free time he gave his creations to kids when he passed by nothing more he became over glorified by being dubbed a saint after his death and renamed santa clause when translated is saintly cause. now it is used to promote consumerism on winter solstice pagan holiday later made to be hedonistic then was made to be christian based giving underlying "tones." Anger is unnecessary in this I personally do not celebrate any holiday due to my religious beliefs saying why have festivities on one given day why can it not be every day what make this day different and don't say christmas cheer or some nonsense like that.

I see Santa didn't give you any punctuation marks for Christmas.

There's just no right way to raise a child. Hence why I don't want one.

And here we come to the crux of it. You sir, hate children. That does not make you a bad person. My first girlfriend despised children. There is no manual that says "Raising Kids for Dummies". However, it is not incredibly difficult to know how to raise a child. You have to be dedicated, you have to be patient, you have to be strong. You make these points about incredibly traumatic events, and bombs, and child abuse. THIS IS FUCKING SANTA CLAUS. Yes, it is a lie. But you know what? WE LIE EVERY DAY. Actors lie as part of their profession! Being traumatised because of the Santa lie is like being traumatised by learning that James Bond is a fictional character. Santa is a harmless, fun thing for parents. As a parent, I know this. You are not a parent. You do not know. You also, as I predict, find children repulsive. Santa claus is NOT FOR YOU. IT IS FOR US. STOP TRYING TO BE A SMARTARSE, AND LET US GO ABOUT OUR BUSINESS.

I also see that you do not read. So let me reiterate that I does not matter that santa is real but what he purveys. He is a storybook character based on a real man. This is to help teach children what to be considered. Therefore he is to just convey the fact that you must have a year round attitude but get rewards for it. What I ask is why promote any such idea of rewarding good behavior. Why not just take it as a story to learn a moral? Why not show your detest and hate to the world? Why must we only come together once in a year? If you take these as rhetorical I will not fault you. I am a parent that view that children as do we need to learn and relearn values. The way to teach may be different but all the same the child will learn. And since the child will learn regardless of what we teach others will teach in our place.

Clearly you do not read. My post is nothing about that. Plus, every "story" where the hero is a good person, they are rewarded for it. Name me one childrens story where the good guy is not rewarded. Most people need a reward for good deeds, and Santa Claus is no different. If you and your kids can be good without any reward, then I commend you, but the vast majority of people need a reward. Thats why religon exists.

 

[Badong]

As a kid, I always loved the prospect of getting presents during Christmas because I liked getting shit a lot (I was/am quite entitled, actually).

Looking back, I am actually starting to wonder if lying to my future child about Santa is a good thing. On one hand, he/she might blurt it out to other kids and be made fun of. On the other hand, he/she might learn a thing or two about seeking out what is 'real'. Yeah, its a good bet to just lie to her (transparently, if I must keep the lie good natured).

 

[Findlebob]

They have to believe the little lie's before they can beleive the big ones.

 

[Capricious]

Look this does not matter if it is truth fiction real or fake this santa clause was once adopted as a story of old saint nick from germany where the parents were to poor to promote such an idea where saint nick was an old toy maker that whittled in his free time he gave his creations to kids when he passed by nothing more he became over glorified by being dubbed a saint after his death and renamed santa clause when translated is saintly cause. now it is used to promote consumerism on winter solstice pagan holiday later made to be hedonistic then was made to be christian based giving underlying "tones." Anger is unnecessary in this I personally do not celebrate any holiday due to my religious beliefs saying why have festivities on one given day why can it not be every day what make this day different and don't say christmas cheer or some nonsense like that.

I see Santa didn't give you any punctuation marks for Christmas.

There's just no right way to raise a child. Hence why I don't want one.

And here we come to the crux of it. You sir, hate children. That does not make you a bad person. My first girlfriend despised children. There is no manual that says "Raising Kids for Dummies". However, it is not incredibly difficult to know how to raise a child. You have to be dedicated, you have to be patient, you have to be strong. You make these points about incredibly traumatic events, and bombs, and child abuse. THIS IS FUCKING SANTA CLAUS. Yes, it is a lie. But you know what? WE LIE EVERY DAY. Actors lie as part of their profession! Being traumatised because of the Santa lie is like being traumatised by learning that James Bond is a fictional character. Santa is a harmless, fun thing for parents. As a parent, I know this. You are not a parent. You do not know. You also, as I predict, find children repulsive. Santa claus is NOT FOR YOU. IT IS FOR US. STOP TRYING TO BE A SMARTARSE, AND LET US GO ABOUT OUR BUSINESS.

I also see that you do not read. So let me reiterate that I does not matter that santa is real but what he purveys. He is a storybook character based on a real man. This is to help teach children what to be considered. Therefore he is to just convey the fact that you must have a year round attitude but get rewards for it. What I ask is why promote any such idea of rewarding good behavior. Why not just take it as a story to learn a moral? Why not show your detest and hate to the world? Why must we only come together once in a year? If you take these as rhetorical I will not fault you. I am a parent that view that children as do we need to learn and relearn values. The way to teach may be different but all the same the child will learn. And since the child will learn regardless of what we teach others will teach in our place.

Clearly you do not read. My post is nothing about that. Plus, every "story" where the hero is a good person, they are rewarded for it. Name me one childrens story where the good guy is not rewarded. Most people need a reward for good deeds, and Santa Claus is no different. If you and your kids can be good without any reward, then I commend you, but the vast majority of people need a reward. Thats why religon exists.

Either you do not read the bible or any other religious text which does have many stories that have people do good things for no reward. The original story for santa clause ,if you would notice, he was never rewarded except the children's smiling faces. As of now in America we need a reward for an incentive to do anything whether good or bad. We feel it necessary to survive just the day. So we make stories to promote that fact. History can even be looked to show there are people have done good deeds without reward. And before you say anything about the good samaritan in the bible look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan and the torah never mentions that doing good deeds send you to heaven it is merely promoted.

 

[woodaba]

Look this does not matter if it is truth fiction real or fake this santa clause was once adopted as a story of old saint nick from germany where the parents were to poor to promote such an idea where saint nick was an old toy maker that whittled in his free time he gave his creations to kids when he passed by nothing more he became over glorified by being dubbed a saint after his death and renamed santa clause when translated is saintly cause. now it is used to promote consumerism on winter solstice pagan holiday later made to be hedonistic then was made to be christian based giving underlying "tones." Anger is unnecessary in this I personally do not celebrate any holiday due to my religious beliefs saying why have festivities on one given day why can it not be every day what make this day different and don't say christmas cheer or some nonsense like that.

I see Santa didn't give you any punctuation marks for Christmas.

There's just no right way to raise a child. Hence why I don't want one.

And here we come to the crux of it. You sir, hate children. That does not make you a bad person. My first girlfriend despised children. There is no manual that says "Raising Kids for Dummies". However, it is not incredibly difficult to know how to raise a child. You have to be dedicated, you have to be patient, you have to be strong. You make these points about incredibly traumatic events, and bombs, and child abuse. THIS IS FUCKING SANTA CLAUS. Yes, it is a lie. But you know what? WE LIE EVERY DAY. Actors lie as part of their profession! Being traumatised because of the Santa lie is like being traumatised by learning that James Bond is a fictional character. Santa is a harmless, fun thing for parents. As a parent, I know this. You are not a parent. You do not know. You also, as I predict, find children repulsive. Santa claus is NOT FOR YOU. IT IS FOR US. STOP TRYING TO BE A SMARTARSE, AND LET US GO ABOUT OUR BUSINESS.

I also see that you do not read. So let me reiterate that I does not matter that santa is real but what he purveys. He is a storybook character based on a real man. This is to help teach children what to be considered. Therefore he is to just convey the fact that you must have a year round attitude but get rewards for it. What I ask is why promote any such idea of rewarding good behavior. Why not just take it as a story to learn a moral? Why not show your detest and hate to the world? Why must we only come together once in a year? If you take these as rhetorical I will not fault you. I am a parent that view that children as do we need to learn and relearn values. The way to teach may be different but all the same the child will learn. And since the child will learn regardless of what we teach others will teach in our place.

Clearly you do not read. My post is nothing about that. Plus, every "story" where the hero is a good person, they are rewarded for it. Name me one childrens story where the good guy is not rewarded. Most people need a reward for good deeds, and Santa Claus is no different. If you and your kids can be good without any reward, then I commend you, but the vast majority of people need a reward. Thats why religon exists.

Either you do not read the bible or any other religious text which does have many stories that have people do good things for no reward. The original story for santa clause ,if you would notice, he was never rewarded except the children's smiling faces. As of now in America we need a reward for an incentive to do anything whether good or bad. We feel it necessary to survive just the day. So we make stories to promote that fact. History can even be looked to show there are people have done good deeds without reward. And before you say anything about the good samaritan in the bible look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan and the torah never mentions that doing good deeds send you to heaven it is merely promoted.

You didn't answer my question. You are just merrily skipping around it, providing points which are largely irrelevant. You are waffling.

I ask again, Name me one Children's story where the good guy does not get their just rewards.

 

[Capricious]

Look this does not matter if it is truth fiction real or fake this santa clause was once adopted as a story of old saint nick from germany where the parents were to poor to promote such an idea where saint nick was an old toy maker that whittled in his free time he gave his creations to kids when he passed by nothing more he became over glorified by being dubbed a saint after his death and renamed santa clause when translated is saintly cause. now it is used to promote consumerism on winter solstice pagan holiday later made to be hedonistic then was made to be christian based giving underlying "tones." Anger is unnecessary in this I personally do not celebrate any holiday due to my religious beliefs saying why have festivities on one given day why can it not be every day what make this day different and don't say christmas cheer or some nonsense like that.

I see Santa didn't give you any punctuation marks for Christmas.

There's just no right way to raise a child. Hence why I don't want one.

And here we come to the crux of it. You sir, hate children. That does not make you a bad person. My first girlfriend despised children. There is no manual that says "Raising Kids for Dummies". However, it is not incredibly difficult to know how to raise a child. You have to be dedicated, you have to be patient, you have to be strong. You make these points about incredibly traumatic events, and bombs, and child abuse. THIS IS FUCKING SANTA CLAUS. Yes, it is a lie. But you know what? WE LIE EVERY DAY. Actors lie as part of their profession! Being traumatised because of the Santa lie is like being traumatised by learning that James Bond is a fictional character. Santa is a harmless, fun thing for parents. As a parent, I know this. You are not a parent. You do not know. You also, as I predict, find children repulsive. Santa claus is NOT FOR YOU. IT IS FOR US. STOP TRYING TO BE A SMARTARSE, AND LET US GO ABOUT OUR BUSINESS.

I also see that you do not read. So let me reiterate that I does not matter that santa is real but what he purveys. He is a storybook character based on a real man. This is to help teach children what to be considered. Therefore he is to just convey the fact that you must have a year round attitude but get rewards for it. What I ask is why promote any such idea of rewarding good behavior. Why not just take it as a story to learn a moral? Why not show your detest and hate to the world? Why must we only come together once in a year? If you take these as rhetorical I will not fault you. I am a parent that view that children as do we need to learn and relearn values. The way to teach may be different but all the same the child will learn. And since the child will learn regardless of what we teach others will teach in our place.

Clearly you do not read. My post is nothing about that. Plus, every "story" where the hero is a good person, they are rewarded for it. Name me one childrens story where the good guy is not rewarded. Most people need a reward for good deeds, and Santa Claus is no different. If you and your kids can be good without any reward, then I commend you, but the vast majority of people need a reward. Thats why religon exists.

Either you do not read the bible or any other religious text which does have many stories that have people do good things for no reward. The original story for santa clause ,if you would notice, he was never rewarded except the children's smiling faces. As of now in America we need a reward for an incentive to do anything whether good or bad. We feel it necessary to survive just the day. So we make stories to promote that fact. History can even be looked to show there are people have done good deeds without reward. And before you say anything about the good samaritan in the bible look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan and the torah never mentions that doing good deeds send you to heaven it is merely promoted.

You didn't answer my question. You are just merrily skipping around it, providing points which are largely irrelevant. You are waffling.

I ask again, Name me one Children's story where the good guy does not get their just rewards.

I did mention stories and history. The good samaritan is a story. The history of santa clause is a story. The bible is an amalgam of stories. If you want more names you will not find them to be in english. These are the values that you place. These stories are meant to guide children. I have been told by my chinese grandmother many folktales and have never told me the names. Why did she not tell me the names? Because that does not matter what matters is if I learned from it. I have been told stories where the good get punished by my hatian grandmother. She has not told me the names of those stories. Why? the same reason. This was to teach me a moral. I have read the original grimm fairytales many of which have evil and good become punished. Many main characters even get rewards without intending to do so. A story of the foolish man that gave till he was completely eaten and even while being eaten he had a smile on his face. These are the stories that I tell my daughter along with the disney fluff. I do not limit to one type of story and she actually likes the more morbid stories compared to the disney fluff due to the realism. These types of stories are in more circulation around the world compared to what is only in english.

 

[woodaba]

Look this does not matter if it is truth fiction real or fake this santa clause was once adopted as a story of old saint nick from germany where the parents were to poor to promote such an idea where saint nick was an old toy maker that whittled in his free time he gave his creations to kids when he passed by nothing more he became over glorified by being dubbed a saint after his death and renamed santa clause when translated is saintly cause. now it is used to promote consumerism on winter solstice pagan holiday later made to be hedonistic then was made to be christian based giving underlying "tones." Anger is unnecessary in this I personally do not celebrate any holiday due to my religious beliefs saying why have festivities on one given day why can it not be every day what make this day different and don't say christmas cheer or some nonsense like that.

I see Santa didn't give you any punctuation marks for Christmas.

There's just no right way to raise a child. Hence why I don't want one.

And here we come to the crux of it. You sir, hate children. That does not make you a bad person. My first girlfriend despised children. There is no manual that says "Raising Kids for Dummies". However, it is not incredibly difficult to know how to raise a child. You have to be dedicated, you have to be patient, you have to be strong. You make these points about incredibly traumatic events, and bombs, and child abuse. THIS IS FUCKING SANTA CLAUS. Yes, it is a lie. But you know what? WE LIE EVERY DAY. Actors lie as part of their profession! Being traumatised because of the Santa lie is like being traumatised by learning that James Bond is a fictional character. Santa is a harmless, fun thing for parents. As a parent, I know this. You are not a parent. You do not know. You also, as I predict, find children repulsive. Santa claus is NOT FOR YOU. IT IS FOR US. STOP TRYING TO BE A SMARTARSE, AND LET US GO ABOUT OUR BUSINESS.

I also see that you do not read. So let me reiterate that I does not matter that santa is real but what he purveys. He is a storybook character based on a real man. This is to help teach children what to be considered. Therefore he is to just convey the fact that you must have a year round attitude but get rewards for it. What I ask is why promote any such idea of rewarding good behavior. Why not just take it as a story to learn a moral? Why not show your detest and hate to the world? Why must we only come together once in a year? If you take these as rhetorical I will not fault you. I am a parent that view that children as do we need to learn and relearn values. The way to teach may be different but all the same the child will learn. And since the child will learn regardless of what we teach others will teach in our place.

Clearly you do not read. My post is nothing about that. Plus, every "story" where the hero is a good person, they are rewarded for it. Name me one childrens story where the good guy is not rewarded. Most people need a reward for good deeds, and Santa Claus is no different. If you and your kids can be good without any reward, then I commend you, but the vast majority of people need a reward. Thats why religon exists.

Either you do not read the bible or any other religious text which does have many stories that have people do good things for no reward. The original story for santa clause ,if you would notice, he was never rewarded except the children's smiling faces. As of now in America we need a reward for an incentive to do anything whether good or bad. We feel it necessary to survive just the day. So we make stories to promote that fact. History can even be looked to show there are people have done good deeds without reward. And before you say anything about the good samaritan in the bible look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan and the torah never mentions that doing good deeds send you to heaven it is merely promoted.

You didn't answer my question. You are just merrily skipping around it, providing points which are largely irrelevant. You are waffling.

I ask again, Name me one Children's story where the good guy does not get their just rewards.

I did mention stories and history. The good samaritan is a story. The history of santa clause is a story. The bible is an amalgam of stories. If you want more names you will not find them to be in english. These are the values that you place. These stories are meant to guide children. I have been told by my chinese grandmother many folktales and have never told me the names. Why did she not tell me the names? Because that does not matter what matters is if I learned from it. I have been told stories where the good get punished by my hatian grandmother. She has not told me the names of those stories. Why? the same reason. This was to teach me a moral. I have read the original grimm fairytales many of which have evil and good become punished. Many main characters even get rewards without intending to do so. A story of the foolish man that gave till he was completely eaten and even while being eaten he had a smile on his face. These are the stories that I tell my daughter along with the disney fluff. I do not limit to one type of story and she actually likes the more morbid stories compared to the disney fluff due to the realism. These types of stories are in more circulation around the world compared to what is only in english.

So, you tell your kids "Santa flies around the world giving presents to people. The moral is giving is the true present. Lots of kids are given presents by their parents simulating santa claus, in order to propagate the joy of the story. Except you. Because of some never defined reason. Sorry."

You certainly have a point, I remember liking the morbid stuff when I was a kid too, but the fact remains: Why is passing off the Santa myth as real somehow harmful to the moral? If anything its less harmful because they experience the joy of giving first hand. That is the core of the santa mythos.

 

[TerribleAssassin]

If I didn't know any better, I'd say this is a troll-baited trap.

Seconded, or an avid Orwell fan.

And also because it shares magic, love, good behavior and a marketing scheme I don't actually mind.

 

[SweetShark]

Something out of topic if you allow me:

I really like the "original" story of Santa Claus.
The grim one I mean.
If the children new about that, every kid would be a good. Every sigle one!!!

 

[Aurora Firestorm]

I echo "why do people hate fun?" here. We don't tell kids about Santa to scare them into good behavior; we tell them because we had all the fantasy and magic sucked out of our lives at about the same time we were expected to start liking the opposite sex. Notice how kids start ditching things like playing make-believe, video games, dolls and other imagination toys, and so forth around adolescence. Basically, once you're a teenager, life stops being neat and fantastical and you start realizing that reality is really *boring.*

Hence, year after year, we tell our kids all kinds of magical myths so that they get the kind of "I believe in fairies" childhood we had before the world squashed us like ripe grapes. It makes the world more interesting and more mystical.

I'm not bitter, I swear.

 

[Capricious]

Look this does not matter if it is truth fiction real or fake this santa clause was once adopted as a story of old saint nick from germany where the parents were to poor to promote such an idea where saint nick was an old toy maker that whittled in his free time he gave his creations to kids when he passed by nothing more he became over glorified by being dubbed a saint after his death and renamed santa clause when translated is saintly cause. now it is used to promote consumerism on winter solstice pagan holiday later made to be hedonistic then was made to be christian based giving underlying "tones." Anger is unnecessary in this I personally do not celebrate any holiday due to my religious beliefs saying why have festivities on one given day why can it not be every day what make this day different and don't say christmas cheer or some nonsense like that.

I see Santa didn't give you any punctuation marks for Christmas.

There's just no right way to raise a child. Hence why I don't want one.

And here we come to the crux of it. You sir, hate children. That does not make you a bad person. My first girlfriend despised children. There is no manual that says "Raising Kids for Dummies". However, it is not incredibly difficult to know how to raise a child. You have to be dedicated, you have to be patient, you have to be strong. You make these points about incredibly traumatic events, and bombs, and child abuse. THIS IS FUCKING SANTA CLAUS. Yes, it is a lie. But you know what? WE LIE EVERY DAY. Actors lie as part of their profession! Being traumatised because of the Santa lie is like being traumatised by learning that James Bond is a fictional character. Santa is a harmless, fun thing for parents. As a parent, I know this. You are not a parent. You do not know. You also, as I predict, find children repulsive. Santa claus is NOT FOR YOU. IT IS FOR US. STOP TRYING TO BE A SMARTARSE, AND LET US GO ABOUT OUR BUSINESS.

I also see that you do not read. So let me reiterate that I does not matter that santa is real but what he purveys. He is a storybook character based on a real man. This is to help teach children what to be considered. Therefore he is to just convey the fact that you must have a year round attitude but get rewards for it. What I ask is why promote any such idea of rewarding good behavior. Why not just take it as a story to learn a moral? Why not show your detest and hate to the world? Why must we only come together once in a year? If you take these as rhetorical I will not fault you. I am a parent that view that children as do we need to learn and relearn values. The way to teach may be different but all the same the child will learn. And since the child will learn regardless of what we teach others will teach in our place.

Clearly you do not read. My post is nothing about that. Plus, every "story" where the hero is a good person, they are rewarded for it. Name me one childrens story where the good guy is not rewarded. Most people need a reward for good deeds, and Santa Claus is no different. If you and your kids can be good without any reward, then I commend you, but the vast majority of people need a reward. Thats why religon exists.

Either you do not read the bible or any other religious text which does have many stories that have people do good things for no reward. The original story for santa clause ,if you would notice, he was never rewarded except the children's smiling faces. As of now in America we need a reward for an incentive to do anything whether good or bad. We feel it necessary to survive just the day. So we make stories to promote that fact. History can even be looked to show there are people have done good deeds without reward. And before you say anything about the good samaritan in the bible look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan and the torah never mentions that doing good deeds send you to heaven it is merely promoted.

You didn't answer my question. You are just merrily skipping around it, providing points which are largely irrelevant. You are waffling.

I ask again, Name me one Children's story where the good guy does not get their just rewards.

I did mention stories and history. The good samaritan is a story. The history of santa clause is a story. The bible is an amalgam of stories. If you want more names you will not find them to be in english. These are the values that you place. These stories are meant to guide children. I have been told by my chinese grandmother many folktales and have never told me the names. Why did she not tell me the names? Because that does not matter what matters is if I learned from it. I have been told stories where the good get punished by my hatian grandmother. She has not told me the names of those stories. Why? the same reason. This was to teach me a moral. I have read the original grimm fairytales many of which have evil and good become punished. Many main characters even get rewards without intending to do so. A story of the foolish man that gave till he was completely eaten and even while being eaten he had a smile on his face. These are the stories that I tell my daughter along with the disney fluff. I do not limit to one type of story and she actually likes the more morbid stories compared to the disney fluff due to the realism. These types of stories are in more circulation around the world compared to what is only in english.

So, you tell your kids "Santa flies around the world giving presents to people. The moral is giving is the true present. Lots of kids are given presents by their parents simulating santa claus, in order to propagate the joy of the story. Except you. Because of some never defined reason. Sorry."

You certainly have a point, I remember liking the morbid stuff when I was a kid too, but the fact remains: Why is passing off the Santa myth as real somehow harmful to the moral? If anything its less harmful because they experience the joy of giving first hand. That is the core of the santa mythos.

That is the exact point that I try to come across. I thank you for understanding.