Regarding the behavior of players in online multiplayer games

[TaboriHK]

Most of the people in online games I play don't speak. I'd wager 5% of all the people I've played games with online actually speak, even if there is a girl in the room. Of the people who I've seen who are assholes, they're never the "n-bomb" dropping maniacs that everyone makes them out to be. I realize people like that do exist, but saying that half the people who play games online are n-bomb maniacs is crazy.

Your experience is not my experience.

Out of curiosity, what games do you play online? Not trying to sound condescending or confrontational, just curious.

Many, for many years. And FPSes are by far and away the worst offenders.

 

[manic_depressive13]

I'm a woman and my primary experience with online multiplayer is World of Warcraft WotLK and Heroes of Newerth. Usually I don't reveal my gender and so I have experienced plenty of trash talk under the assumption that I am a man, and it's nothing compared to the harassment I'll get if people find out I'm a woman.

A minority of people will get extra nice when they find out, including one guy in my WoW guild who would apologise to me personally if he swore like it would offend my sensibilities, which was well meaning but still fucking annoying. But more often I will receive aggressive insults and gendered slurs. If I am doing badly people will claim I'm shit because I'm a woman. If I do well they'll find a reason why it wasn't a result of my skill or insist I'm not really a woman. The normal trash talk I get 'as a man' is not nearly to the same extent. When people know I'm a woman the harassment is more often unprovoked because some people's masculinity is threatened by women beating/ doing better than them.

Now look, I'm not the fucking paragon of morality. I talk shit online, I say things I probably shouldn't say. But I try not to be racist, sexist or homophobic. People who claim the sexist assholes are only a minority of gamers are being dismissive and enabling. If 4/5 times that I reveal my sex I get extremely aggressive gendered harassment then I don't give a shit if it's "just a minority". It's still a pervasive problem.

To clarify, I don't mind ordinary trash talk. I don't want video games to be heavily moderated or for everyone to be fucking nice to each other. Like certain bacteria I thrive in a moderately toxic environment. I just don't want to be immediately demeaned for no reason other than my sex.

 

[small]

its definitely an issue with online gaming, and interesting point about it being worse with competitive games over cooperative.

star trek online is a good one, ive seen a few people get cranky to put it lightly in some of the elite battles but thats because someone has screwed up or isnt up to someones performance levels.

otherwise ive never noticed it being an issue full stop in regards to gender or orientation

 

[NRVNQSR86]

As a male who's played plenty of different games I've seen bad and good things happen. For example, in an textbased game I play, on the forums of the alliance I'm a part of, a few years back an 'officer' of mine who had a picture of a cute woman as an avatar, admitted it was her. Other members of the alliance (even a few who are married) reacted like an group of bulls in heat. It was really something to be ashamed of (in case you wonder - I already had suspected my officer was the one in the picture, or at least female, because of the way she wrote things. I can't explain why, but often in games where extended chats are part of the game, you tend to notice often a difference in writing between males and females).

I've been in clans in SWTOR, STO and LOTRO who were mixed-gender with VOIP-chat to keep each other up-to-date and coordinate raids etc. From my experience, most people who are past the 18-23 yo mark are generally more mature. While pre-18 mature people can be found too, it's more rare. And both males and females can be nasty - it's just males are a bigger group, so more noticeable.

 

[happyninja42]

You know now that you mention it, I did notice that difference. ME3, early days Counter Strike, co-oping for Dead Space 3 with someone you never met, those were all surprisingly good experiences. But playing in a competitive capacity was awful. Especially if I was better than them, that's when they started trying to crush me with a kind of fervor that's a little unsettling.

Never played Multiplayer for things like Borderlands 2 even though I'd heard good things in the past because I was always worried that it was actually going to be just as awful. Do any of you know what that scene is like?

I really enjoyed Borderlands 2 multiplayer. I don't recall having any bad experiences with it. I mean yeah, every so often you'll get someone who's a bit of an asshole, but as I recall when I played it hardcore, it was a very laid back, friendly atmosphere.

I think there's some truth to your theory, but if it's tamer in those scenarios it is only marginally so. I have heard tons of stories about harassment and misogyny in PvE-heavy MMO's (WoW in particular). My girlfriend pretty much only ever played the PvE content and was harassed almost every time people found out she was female.

Well, I don't count WoW as the same type of game as things like ME 3, or Borderlands 2, or Left 4 Dead 2, or Payday 2. Where all of the game content is designed to be co-op. WoW is so open world, that any asshat can just wander over and give you shit. But in the games I've mentioned, they have some common trends:

1. Limited player number, basically 1 team's worth of people.
2. Co-op design from top to bottom. Aside from dueling, you don't really go against each other. L4D2 is slightly different, as team damage is on, so you can get some asshattery through teamkilling. But in my experience, that is incredibly rare. I can only recall one example of a guy in L4D2 intentionally attacking the team, and he didn't last long, because the rest of us turned on him, put him down, and then the host kicked him. We all commented that the guy was a douche, and then went about our day fighting zombies. xD
3. Abilities and powers that rely on, or encourage working together. PD 2 has lots of skills that provide a team bonus. You have to toss loot bags over long distances, encouraging working together. You have to coordinate synchronized activities, encouraging communication. L4D2 has enemies that you can't get off of you yourself, so you have to have a teammate help you. Healing supplies being limited, meaning you might have to help your buddy by giving him your pills, etc. I could do other examples from Borderlands 2 and ME 3, but you get the idea.

I do think that these games probably do have a higher percentage of players who aren't assholes, in comparison to massive multiplayer games like WoW and CoD and stuff. I know personally, I play the co-op games more than anything else because I like working together with other people. I don't like competitive games where it's me versus you. I'm a team player, and I enjoy accomplishing some hard task or challenge, by working as a group with other players. So I tend to prefer co-op type games. Now I don't know if I'm your typical co-op mindset player, that of someone who isn't playing to be a dick, and actually wants to get along with everyone else and just have fun as a team. But it wouldn't surprise me if the percent of players of my mindset are more common on co-op games, just by the nature of the game design.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

I'd say the conclusions in the study are correct. To what degree, I don't know.

As for theories for why girls cop more flak than boys in games...

1. Certain games are loved en-mass by a certain group of socially mal-adjusted individuals, sometimes called "dudebros" or "basement dwellers". These groups aren't known to be "nice" toward women, this might drive the numbers higher.

2. Children. Children are fucking stupid.

3. A wider more encompassing theory would be that there are a lot more people who are verbally prejudiced towards the female gender than there are who are verbally prejudiced toward the male gender. Add in that mainly males play console games, and you have your answer.

As for solutions to this problem...

Better moderation. Not stricter rules, just better enforcement of them. Currently, Sony and MS couldn't give much of a shit about in-game communication, or party communication, and it's not enforced. It's not that we don't have the rules, it's just the we don't have the means to enforce them very well.

Something League of Legends has recently introduced is an awesome idea: chat restricted players don't get rewards for this season. So if your behaviour's been shitty enough, you don't get rewards. Things like this give players incentive to keep things civil.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

My first double post, how exciting.

 

[happyninja42]

My first double post, how exciting.

Might want to edit this post to include more words, so you don't get a finger waggle at you for low content posting. Friendly reminder, as I had a similar encounter without thinking about it.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

My first double post, how exciting.

Might want to edit this post to include more words, so you don't get a finger waggle at you for low content posting. Friendly reminder, as I had a similar encounter without thinking about it.

You sure? The mods know it's a mistake by now, and I've seen this multiple times before and they got no warnings.

 

[Shpongled]

When this topic comes up i always wonder if anyone shares my experiences here..

I'm British (English to be precise) and i used to play lots of online gaming on the original Xbox, where people commonly had mics and verbal communication was common. Harassment from american youths whenever i opened my mouth and it became obvious that i "had an accent" was incredibly common. All the usual stuff - bad teeth, tea and crumpets, stuff about the queen, so on.

I've not really had it for a long time, since i started playing on PC where for the most part people would speak over teamspeak and skype, and as such would be usually be friends or in the same guild/clan or whatnot. And i suspect servers being much more regionally segregated due to financial viability nowadays also has a lot to do with it. But i'm curious if any other brits/other nationalities had the same sorts of experiences playing on servers that used to be primarily occupied by americans.

All this is not to say anything against americans. But i suspect it's less of an issue of girls being targeted by immature youths, and more simply that people who are different from the norm are targeted. Kind of like how the fat kid, or the kid with glasses was the target at school, simply because being fat or having glasses was unusual and thus an easy target. Being female is something easily noticeable when all these kids have to go on is a voice, and so females are regularly targets.

Thats my theory anyway. Though not to downplay the "err, girls are disgusting" aspects of early puberty in males, followed by the "how the hell do i get girls to like me, i have no idea how to deal with these new pressures" elements of later puberty.

 

[happyninja42]

When this topic comes up i always wonder if anyone shares my experiences here..

Well no, they're your experiences, so we can't share them. xD

I'm British (English to be precise) and i used to play lots of online gaming on the original Xbox, where people commonly had mics and verbal communication was common. Harassment from american youths whenever i opened my mouth and it became obvious that i "had an accent" was incredibly common. All the usual stuff - bad teeth, tea and crumpets, stuff about the queen, so on.

I've not really had it for a long time, since i started playing on PC where for the most part people would speak over teamspeak and skype, and as such would be usually be friends or in the same guild/clan or whatnot. And i suspect servers being much more regionally segregated due to financial viability nowadays also has a lot to do with it. But i'm curious if any other brits/other nationalities had the same sorts of experiences playing on servers that used to be primarily occupied by americans.

Interesting theory, and possibly true. I can't speak to it directly since I am american myself, and I can't recall playing with too many people who obviously had an accent from another country. The most recent I can think of is in Planetside 2, where a guy that, honestly I'm not sure where he was from, it sounded possibly Australian? Or possibly some variation of a british/english accent. It was hard for me to peg actually. But we were all cool chatting with him.

All this is not to say anything against americans

YES IT IS!! DAMN YOU LIMEY BRIT!! DIE DIE FOR DARING TO INSULT 'MURICA!! DIIIIIEEEE! xD j/k

But i suspect it's less of an issue of girls being targeted by immature youths, and more simply that people who are different from the norm are targeted. Kind of like how the fat kid, or the kid with glasses was the target at school, simply because being fat or having glasses was unusual and thus an easy target. Being female is something easily noticeable when all these kids have to go on is a voice, and so females are regularly targets.

See for me, given the random quality of voice chat in games, I have a really hard time telling if someone is female, or possibly just a youth with a high register voice. When they're only speaking in short bursts like "Enemy on the right." "Need resupply" etc, it's hard to tell sometimes.

Thats my theory anyway. Though not to downplay the "err, girls are disgusting" aspects of early puberty in males, followed by the "how the hell do i get girls to like me, i have no idea how to deal with these new pressures" elements of later puberty.

I am always puzzled by the "girls are gross" concept of development. xD I never experienced this problem at all, so it baffles me when people describe it as being normal for males going into puberty. I always though women were quite awesome to admire, even as a little kid. I will agree that your stage 2 probably does have a lot of merit to it. Awkwardness, especially if you do/say something that might be embarrassing can trigger weird reactions.