Removing fun from the reboot

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Callate

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Game Informer magazine recently ran an article about the upcoming "Tomb Raider" game. Over and over, the interviewees stressed the necessity of making the rebooted Lara Croft more "vulnerable" and "mortal". This seems to translate to having her sustain unavoidable injuries and watch her suffer prolonged, graphic, M-rated deaths, sometimes for failing what sounds suspiciously like QTEs. Oh, and forget about having anything as useful as a pistol for most of the game; eventually, you'll get to hit things with an ice axe.

Recently, The Escapist had an article on some of what the new Silent Hill game had to offer, notably including a combat system in which the protagonist is prone to swing wild, weapons degrade quickly, and- a first- you can only carry one weapon at a time, leaving you libel to be desperately fumbling for anything at the worst possible time. The designers cite a desire to "dis-empower" the player; perversely, this means that the escaped convict of Silent Hill: Downpour is likely to be a far less physically dangerous person than the seventeen year old girl of Silent Hill 3.

Now, far be it from me to suggest that every character in every game should be a space marine lugging around seven weapons, each of which would realistically way around fifty pounds, and several hundred rounds for each. And of course I would be remiss not to acknowledge that neither game has been released yet, so I can't comment with certainty on what might turn out to be a perfectly realized new paradigm leading to a revolutionary gaming experience that will herald two of the best games of the year.

Still... WHAT THE F$%#?!

This desire to "dis-empower" the player sounds suspiciously like the pseudo-artistic nattering of designers who are unfamiliar with the nature of the medium they've chosen. Whether we're micromanaging the lives of our Sims or building up our combo multiplier with a new weapon, a large amount of the reason people play computer games is to feel empowered. Perhaps not in the sense of the ability to destroy every inhabitant of the game world at a whim, but certainly to be offered a chance to explore, to learn the ins and outs of the game world, to grow in their understanding of their character's capabilities and make choices. And certainly not to be punished for failing to play the game in the way that conforms to the creator's "vision".

Even when I play survival horror, I don't do it to be "dis-empowered". The Silent Hill games have long made their protagonists pawns in a game far larger than themselves, but even still they frequently allowed them to choose where their priorities lay, even if they lay on the path to damnation. I said before that the Silent Hill games have never really been about combat, and it's true, but the visceral effect of the combat has far more to do with the unease at stomping one of the malformed, vomiting "patients" to death in SH2 or being saluted by your doppleganger in SH3 than in grimacing at the possibility that you'll be forced to reload your save again because you got trapped in a corner and whaled on by the designer's need to "disempower" you.

And whether or not the design succeeds in making me sympathetic to the "new" Lara Croft, I really don't want to hear her scream and whimper and cry for most of the game.

If this is the new paradigm in game design, this pushing of the hero's "vulnerability"- I have to say, it sucks.
 

Porecomesis

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I know how you feel. They did the same thing to Samus in Metroid: Other M, and this sense of 'vulnerability' is getting annoying.
 

joebthegreat

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Well here's the thing, especially when talking about a game like Silent Hill.

Being dis-empowered is a downright necessity if you're going to make a horror game. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun if you're empowered. Dead Space and Resident Evil 4 and 5 are very fun. They're also not really that good as horror games.

Samus obviously shouldn't be vulnerable, as she's always been one of those bad-ass kind of characters that gets through whatever she has to by herself. I feel the same way about Lara Croft, making her vulnerable is unnecessary, stupid, and possibly sexist (sexism in a Tomb Raider game? No way!)
 

KefkaCultist

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Well for the Lara Croft game I really couldn't care less because the last Croft game I picked up was in the 90's and I haven't had interest in them since.

However, from what I've heard about the Silent Hill game, I like the changes. Silent Hill is a survival horror game and vulnerability plays a big part in it being a survival horror game.
 

spider-dork

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I have to play both sides on this one, but I favor yours slightly more because of the fact that video game mechanics aren't such that dis-empowerment is going to be realistically portrayed.
Basically it boils down to the fact that in real life I CAN carry more than one weapon at a hindrance to my speed and other abilities, but at the same time I CAN also make use of a lot more of my surroundings in more "inspired" ways than any video game character yet. That fact alone makes these ideas somewhat silly and definitely narrow-minded.

TLDR:
Until characters in games can effectively use a brick, a stick, and some twine in more ways than 2 fuck dis-empowerment.
 

ghstman

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KefkaCultist said:
However, from what I've heard about the Silent Hill game, I like the changes. Silent Hill is a survival horror game and vulnerability plays a big part in it being a survival horror game.
True, but there's a fine line between survival and just being an asshole to your players. Restricting your players this way crosses the line from making it dangerous to making it tedious. Hell, limit the amount of stuff you can put into each pocket and limit your total junk, but don't restrict us to one damn item in our hands. That's just plain stupid.
 

Netrigan

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With Lara Croft, sounds like they're going the Uncharted route... which is just another rip-off of Indiana Jones. They'll probably ape the whole in-over-their-head routine, so she's scraping through fights instead of just plowing through the baddies. There's lots of gun combat in Uncharted, but he has this bad habit of losing his weapons when falling off of things, so he's constantly at a disadvantage.

With Silent Hill, there's quite a number of people who don't think action and horror go together well. You can startle people in an action game, but if the fight mechanics are too good, then there's never really a sense of dread going into fights. Games like F.E.A.R. have done their level best to be spooky and they made me jump here and there, but mostly I'm going through the game in standard Space Marine mode, ready to kick ass.

Not really into the whole survival horror thing, but I can see Lara Croft working with Uncharted rules. Constantly being out-gunned and out-maneuvered is tense and a lot of fun. Hell, even Indiana Jones is frequently out-gunned and out-maneuvered, which is part of the appeal. He's not a super-man who gets through fights without a scrape. He's bruised & battered and lucky to be alive.
 

KefkaCultist

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ghstman said:
KefkaCultist said:
However, from what I've heard about the Silent Hill game, I like the changes. Silent Hill is a survival horror game and vulnerability plays a big part in it being a survival horror game.
True, but there's a fine line between survival and just being an asshole to your players. Restricting your players this way crosses the line from making it dangerous to making it tedious. Hell, limit the amount of stuff you can put into each pocket and limit your total junk, but don't restrict us to one damn item in our hands. That's just plain stupid.
I have to disagree.

Take Amnesia: Dark Descent for example, it is a really good survival horror game in which there is NO FIGHTING AT ALL, if you encounter a monster you have to haul ass and hide somewhere. It is the definition of vulnerability. You have a good sized inventory for tinders to light torches, your lamp & oil for it, and miscellaneous items for puzzles & etc., but no weapons whatsoever.

Vulnerability is what MADE survival horror and taking that sense of vulnerability out of a horror game, in my opinion, just makes it another action game.
 

migo

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For Silent Hill I don't get what you're complaining about. For Lara Croft though. I dig the aesthetic change she's gone through, but you should be able to do backflips onto a tiger and shoot it in the face.
 

Callate

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KefkaCultist said:
joebthegreat said:
It's true that Amnesia: The Dark Descent and even Silent Hill: Shattered Memories have no combat mechanics at all and have been greatly enjoyed by many, and I have no problem with this. But it's a very different thing to make a game from the outset with no combat mechanics at all versus making a game where there are combat mechanics, you're probably going to have to use them, but they're engineered to engender a sense of futility. Early "survival horror" games often faced the player with a scarcity of resources but generally allowed the player to choose whether they wanted to avoid lesser enemies, try to fight them with ineffective and dangerous melee tactics, or use their shallow stock of ammunition, cognizant that any satisfaction to be gained in an easy kill would likely be paid for later against more dangerous adversaries. Downpour is apparently going to usually reduce you to a very limited melee option and fleeing, and then make the melee option even worse than usual. It might well actually be a better game if they'd remove it altogether; at least the designers would be forced to build the game with that inevitability in mind.
 

I Max95

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i have nothing to say about silent hill but i like the new lara croft
its a new direction for a game series that severly needed one

and no this isnt a new fad in gaming those are just two examples

youll still be seeing commander shepard destoying and entire race of sentient starships this year, nathan drake tearing through another legion of soldiers to find a new artifact to save the world, and batman will take out another hundred psychopaths using nothing but his fists

all of those titles (Mass effect 3, uncharted 3 and batman arkhanm city) will sell millions and their filled with player empowerment