Retaining honorifics in English adaptations of manga & anime: yay or nay?

[SuperSuperSuperGuy]

Depends if it's thematically appropriate. There aren't many equivalent terms in English, and the honorifics that we do have aren't as varied or nuanced as Japanese ones. If a series is heavily steeped in Japanese culture, then it's completely okay, because it's appropriate for the setting and subject matter. And example of this is Persona 4; they left the honorifics in tact, and it doesn't take away from the game at all. However, a series where it is inappropriate should not have honorifics. A series like Baccano, which takes place in prohibition-era America, would suffer from including Japanese honorifics. In addition, a series that is sort of culturally neutral should try to avoid honorifics, though it's excusable for ones that have no really English equivalent, i.e. "senpai".

EDIT: Also, honorifics are sometimes used in characterization. If they're important to the work, then they should be kept.

 

[FireAza]

Honorifics are important in a culture where people don't come out and say what they mean. They can offer all kinds of insight into the relationship between the two speaking characters. But in an English dub? Christ, you've already changed so much by completely replacing the script, actors and language, you might as well not bother.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

EDIT:

What... I am so confused- what is this!?

I don't freaking know, I thought it was the slightest bit relevant and people would get a kick out of it. I think it's hilarious.

 

[sextus the crazy]

It very much depends on the kind of anime/manga it is, and how important the honorifics are.

Ditto. If the characters are japanese, it would make sense, where as western focused anime/manga should avoid them.

 

[FalloutJack]

Only if the characters are Japanese, who have a reason to use honorifics, or if it is another person who has studied the language.

In short, make it realitic. There's no reason for Roger Smith to use honorifics. (Canonically, he doesn't even understand Japanese that well.)

 

[Relish in Chaos]

So, would you say that, for example, Alphonse should just call Edward ?Ed? or ?Edward? rather than ?big brother? in the English translation of Fullmetal Alchemist because of its strongly European influences, while, to use another example, other characters should call Tatewaki Kuno ?Kuno-senpai? rather than ?upperclassman Kuno? in Ranma ½ because it?s explicitly set in Japan?

Also, to go off on a bit of a tangent, hohw about words that literally mean one thing but convey another? Like those techniques with ?-ken? in the name? They literally mean ?fist?, but the intended impression seems to be more like ?attack?? So, should Gokuu?s ?Saruken? in Dragon Ball be translated as ?Monkey Fist? or ?Monkey Attack??

Not to mention how the Japanese tend to primarily refer to others with their surname written first, rather than the first name written last, which can also have an effect on the relationship between characters. From what I heard, the status quo seems to be that historical figures keep their original ?surname first, first name last? names, but fictional characters? names are rendered in the English way. But then, in Dragon Ball, should it not be ?Gokuu Son?? Or ?Son Gokuu?, since the series originated as a parody on Chinese folktale Journey to the West and is, well, pretty Japanese as a whole (e.g. martial arts).

And then there?s the whole ?pronunciation? thing? Again, to use the protagonist of Dragon Ball, should it simply be rendered as ?Goku?? Or ?Gokū?, or ?Gokuu?, to better display the pronunciation to foreign readers?

Or am I just being unnecessarily OCD about all this? Either way, please give me your thoughts below.

 

[Gatx]

So, would you say that, for example, Alphonse should just call Edward ?Ed? or ?Edward? rather than ?big brother? in the English translation of Fullmetal Alchemist because of its strongly European influences, while, to use another example, other characters should call Tatewaki Kuno ?Kuno-senpai? rather than ?upperclassman Kuno? in Ranma ½ because it?s explicitly set in Japan?

Also, to go off on a bit of a tangent, hohw about words that literally mean one thing but convey another? Like those techniques with ?-ken? in the name? They literally mean ?fist?, but the intended impression seems to be more like ?attack?? So, should Gokuu?s ?Saruken? in Dragon Ball be translated as ?Monkey Fist? or ?Monkey Attack??

I think there are cases where someone WOULD just say "Brother" instead of their name, even when speaking English. At the very least it didn't sound awkward in the dub at all. Overall I think that for written stuff in a manga, it's more excusable because it's all an abstraction anyway. However when it's dubbed, it's incredibly jarring to hear -chan, -kun, etc. and the dubbers should just take the extra effort to translate the intention by adding a "Mr." when approriate for -san and -sama, or making a cutesy nickname for -chan for instance.

As for the techniques - I was thinking about this while watching Bleach on Adult Swim. While it's weird when they can't pronounce the techniques right, it wouldn't be nearly as cool for Ichigo to shout "Heavenly Slicing Moon Fang," or whatever it's supposed to be, instead of Getsuga Tensho, or if Naruto said "Spiraling Ball." Plus there's the issue of dubbing, which is hard enough without all the extra syllables that could possibly be added when the technique is translated literally.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Since I actually know what most of them are used for now, I wouldn't mind so much, but I understand why some people would.

As far as attacks, proper names and the like, I've got no problem with them being in Japanese(even mispronounced) as the translations could get a bit silly.

Finally, the way a character speaks can be huge for characterization and the use of honorifics can be a pretty big definer of that. If you can't find a good way to translate the manner of speaking into another language, use the original honorifics to give us a bit of that flavor that was originally there... provided we understand how they're typically used, which every viewer undoubtedly will not.

Captcha: more chocolate... yes captcha, I will heed your sage advice.

 

[Innegativeion]

Yay, if it takes place in japan or a Japanese-inspired culture, a fantasy culture that is meant to be Japanese-esque. Otherwise there doesn't seem to be a point.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Given that honorifics often are in place to help define a character's place in the world, and they're not exactly tough to learn anyway, I don't see any issue at all with keeping them. As long as they fit thematically, they should stay.

Said it better than I could.
Americanization is dumb when it's not necessary.

 

[bluepotatosack]

Personally it bugs me more when they try to translate the honorifics. People in English speaking countries don't constantly call people their own age miss or mr., nor.do youger siblings refer to older siblings as "hey, big brother." I'd rather they (and other words that don't have a good one word translation) be left alone with a translator's note explaining them, or barring that, dropped entirely if possible.

I mean it's not like half the words in the English language didn't get there that way in the first place.

Counterpoint! Buster Bluth

But, that might be a special case.


Anyway, it all depends on how it's handled. Translating "ossan" into "old man" works just fine. Calling a young woman "miss", also fine. Using honorifics within the same age group can be a bit odd, though.

 

[Brotha Desmond]

Sometimes. If they are using "sensei" or "senpai" then it should stay. Otherwise I think it's situational.

 

[Miss G.]

First off, I never watch dubbed anime.

Though if I did, I wouldn't want them to use the san/chan/kun/sama/sensei words in English. It doesn't work to keep them.

What they should try to do is convey the relationship type using similar English words or context.

Sometimes those things don't have an equivalent word or context in English though, like the senpai and kohai relationship in school/work or calling someone in your age group 'insert surname-san' because their first name ends in the letters 'sa' eg. Risa Harada is called Harada-san and calling her Ms. Harada in English is weird if you're just acquaintances who happen to be kids.