Reviewing the Reviewer

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REDPill357

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Hey Joe said:
I agree with you to a certain extent in that we do need to talk in a different way about games that doesn't marginalize gaming in mainstream society...
Wow. You've just inspired me. I now know what's wrong with gaming. Most people get games just to have fun. Games can have artistic merit, though. Take Halo. Sure, it's cool running around, gunning people down with your guns, but is it deep? Does it have anything special? No. Call of Duty 4. It's got a nice story, and high-octane action, but again, it's all style, but no substance.

Are there any games out there that are nothing more than just killing, and have something deeper? The only game released this holiday season that seems to have anything like this is Orange Box. TF2 has a unique art style. The characters have some personality. Portal is a good example of atmosphere and humor in gaming. Episode 2 is an exercise in story-telling. Call me a fanboy, but can anyone else think of anything released recently that has something deeper?
 

phooks

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Then stop readin them if it bothers you so much. That are always people out there that copy or think they're funny. the worst type of people in the world are people who impersonate Borat.
No, the worst people in the world are the people who say "if you don't like something, don't read it/play it/watch it/say anything about it". That shit is as bad as saying "why don't you go and play a REAL guitar?". Just stop it.

But yes, I do agree most reviews on here do lack a degree of professionalism. The general trend in this forum I find is that it's not "Here is the good, the bad, the middle ground, and my reccomendation", it's "I'll spend 1 sentence on the good parts, and bash the bad parts into next week".

A perfect example of this is the "Oblivion as it was" thread. I'm afraid this type of review has spawned from yahtzee, who himself has stated that nobody likes him when "he's being nice".

I mean seriously, look at that thread. He spends 1 paragraph on the good aspects, and the rest of the some 400 words are on the leveling system, and how he prefers dying to rats in morrowind!

I do however like the reviews such as this one [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.52735], as it incorporates a heartfelt opinion of a game, and it's not just "LOOK AT ME I'M WRITING A REVIEW, I'LL SLOT IN SOME FUNNY SIMILES".

But as the escapist is seriously lacking heartfelt opinions, and is in excess of yahtzee-style game bashing, I'll stick to only taking gametrailer reviews seriously.
 

sumanai

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Hey Joe said:
tendo82 said:
... I think what you've said is valid, but unproductive in that it adheres to a fairly narrow definition of what a review should be...
I agree with you to a certain extent in that we do need to talk in a different way about games that doesn't marginalize gaming in mainstream society, I don't think that should be done in a review. ...
I don't understand why it shouldn't, but that might be because my understanding of the word "review" agrees more with tendo82. And also with the definition on dictionary.com. And with the 1997 edition of The New Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language.
Just to be the pedantic prick that I am, I shall quote the first definition here: "a critical article or report, as in a periodical, on a book, play, performance, etc.; critique."
This wouldn't matter if people wouldn't use it with this meaning, but in my experience, they do.

The way I see it, a review can be a buyer's guide, but it doesn't have to be. If someone goes through the trouble of actually reviewing a game on it's artistic merit, I consider it wrong, and rather insulting, to demand it should be labeled as an opinion.
An opinion suggests, to me at least, that the text in question would be just a brief glance on the game. Maybe some random thoughts. Not a thorough examination of the aspects and connotations of the game.
An editorial would make it sound like a generic view on the subject matter as well. Maybe more of a view than a glance, but still not a proper dissection.

To me it doesn't matter if games are consumer goods. So are movies, books, music, but reviewing those purely from the consumer's point of view does them, as well as games, a disservice in my opinion. And in case of all those I recall seeing reviews that touched more than just "how much money is worth". In fact, I haven't read a single book review that said something like "but you should only consider buying it once the price goes down". Or a movie review for that matter. And I don't see the relevance, in this case, of video games' higher price.
 

Hey Joe

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sumanai said:
The way I see it, a review can be a buyer's guide, but it doesn't have to be. If someone goes through the trouble of actually reviewing a game on it's artistic merit, I consider it wrong, and rather insulting, to demand it should be labeled as an opinion.
An opinion suggests, to me at least, that the text in question would be just a brief glance on the game. Maybe some random thoughts. Not a thorough examination of the aspects and connotations of the game.
An editorial would make it sound like a generic view on the subject matter as well. Maybe more of a view than a glance, but still not a proper dissection.
Fair point, but I do still feel that any deeper look at a game is the work of the editorial or opinion piece. Any opinion offered by way of artistic merit needs a wider context (social, political, economic etc.) than just the game being reviewed to be a proper examination, and by bringing in that wider context you fall outside the parameters of the review.

At the end of the day, we're all going to have different definitions of what constitutes a review and what constitutes an opinion piece, and unless we scale the ranks to make it to editor, it won't matter one iota what we think.
 

tendo82

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Nov 30, 2007
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Hey Joe said:
At the end of the day, we're all going to have different definitions of what constitutes a review and what constitutes an opinion piece, and unless we scale the ranks to make it to editor, it won't matter one iota what we think.
It matters terribly, because the reader can ultimately choose not to read the garbage whose sole purpose is to provide a metacritic score.

You're right to say semantics don't matter, and to argue about them is counter productive. We need only agree that review, editorial, or opinion - more of them are needed. The majority of game reviews produced are equivalent to a CNN soundbite, good only for a quote on the back of a game box. These reviews are a few token words placed around a huge Gamerankings number, ultimately designed to attract more advertising dollars. On a more selfish note, they are simply boring to read. And boredom, no, ennui, is a feeling that lies in diametric opposition to everything I love about videogames.
 

Terramax

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Just in case my review of Tomb Raider gets slapped for being Yahkzee-esque, mine was copied and pasted from a review I wrote on Amazon in April 2007 :D

You express some valid points but I wouldn't say all of it is correct. Reviews are there to a.) inform, b.) the better ones express arguements from both sides of the story and c.) are entertaining.

What I dislike about a lot of 'professional' reviews as with the most games they either 100% love or hate the game. There's barely any middleground.

I'll usually read professional reviews to find out more of the technical side, but I'll say this now, professional reviews only influence my likeliness to buy or not buy a game 10%, the rest of the 90% going to Amazon reviewers who I listen to more who actually pay to play games, and are not payed.

Second of all, most reviews from Amazon come from a diverse range of people, not all of them spending 1 A4 of writing telling me drival.
 

Hey Joe

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tendo82 said:
Hey Joe said:
At the end of the day, we're all going to have different definitions of what constitutes a review and what constitutes an opinion piece, and unless we scale the ranks to make it to editor, it won't matter one iota what we think.
It matters terribly, because the reader can ultimately choose not to read the garbage whose sole purpose is to provide a metacritic score.

Better yet, we could just not buy shallow games. That will, more than anything, get gaming moving in the right direction.

(Cue 'Stars and Stripes forever')

If you're going to blame anyone for holding gaming back, blame the people who keep on throwing money at the producers of asinine games.

Journalists aren't responsible for the advancement of an entire medium, and they shouldn't have to be. They don't act as the fourth estate in the gaming world, their job is to review, and sometimes tell us what they think of a certain issue, and if they're entertaining as well then that's just gravy.

It's up to each individual where our spending dollars go, so with equal ire blame the cut-out reviewers AND the people who buy the games. Reviewers will tailor to their target audience, most of which bought Halo 3 just because it's Halo 3. Reviewers are doing their jobs by pandering to their target audience, and people are validating them in record sales numbers.

I'M HEY JOE AND I'M RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT!
 

sumanai

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Hey Joe said:
Fair point, but I do still feel that any deeper look at a game is the work of the editorial or opinion piece. Any opinion offered by way of artistic merit needs a wider context (social, political, economic etc.) than just the game being reviewed to be a proper examination, and by bringing in that wider context you fall outside the parameters of the review.
And I think it fits in quite snugly, but as you said, enough of that.

Blame, as much as it should be thrown about anyway, should go pretty equally among reviewers, gamers and producers/developers. Poor reviewers for handling games like meat, gamers for buying that "same ol', same ol'", and game companies for not understanding that you can make games for relatively minor audiences, and that trying make it more accessible to more people can ruin the game for everyone.
E.g., simplifying for "console 'tards" seems to actually happen, regardless if it's even needed. And whether it actually aids or damages the sales.

Terramax: I'd say the "inform" is the most important part, unless you mean "entertain" as in "interesting/enjoyable to read". But isn't that true with all writings?
For amateur reviews it would be fine to be just entertaining, but you'd have to make certain you really are funny, instead of just throwing random jokes about. And also be sure to not misinform people. Even then it would feel, to me, more of an opinion piece, or a rant.
Good professional reviews tend to cover more areas or aspects of games than amateur ones,
but amateurs have a habit of revealing the writers feelings on the subject. I think the best coverage would be gained by reading both, but that probably was what you were getting at anyway.

And I need to stop writing short essays in here.
 

Terramax

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Terramax: I'd say the "inform" is the most important part, unless you mean "entertain" as in "interesting/enjoyable to read". But isn't that true with all writings?
For amateur reviews it would be fine to be just entertaining, but you'd have to make certain you really are funny, instead of just throwing random jokes about. And also be sure to not misinform people. Even then it would feel, to me, more of an opinion piece, or a rant.
Good professional reviews tend to cover more areas or aspects of games than amateur ones,
but amateurs have a habit of revealing the writers feelings on the subject. I think the best coverage would be gained by reading both, but that probably was what you were getting at anyway.
I think you miss the point about entertaining. I don't me just being funny, but writing review that speaks to the reader at a personal level than just writing a boring essay, which appears to be the case with these reviews that go on for about 4 pages and/ or reviews without a writer's distinctive style.

Professional reviewers 'inform' all the time, without any feeling and, to me, seem 100x more shallow than amateur reviews/ reviewers.

I personally love the rants on many amateur reviewers. Generally, it's the only way to balance out the 99% of reviews that rate many games too high and are completely blinded to any faults, no matter how obvious some are.

Professional reviewers have a habit of rating their favourite genres or the most sought after games high levels and games they dislike abysmal.

One of my favourite games is Myst IV: Revelation. Now, fair enough, the game has some glaring faults. It's obscenely hard for starters, but it's pretty much the revolution of point and click adventure games, and about as good as they're ever going to get.

So many details and little extras they add in, kicking out all the stale, boring elements of the genre i.e. instead of having to read endless diaries, we get a pendant that tells the story in flashback, and any diaries there are, have voice overs to do the work for us so we sit back and relax.

PC gamer gave it 35%. Now, as a point and click adventure game, it's almost perfect in every criteria. It should be rated high for all those who love those kinds of games. And despite the complexities of the design of the game and the many features, I was shocked that the review was not even half a page long.

The same magazine I then gives Crysis 98%, despite the many complaints and drawbacks.

Now, I'm not arguing it's a bad game. But Crysis and Myst IV: Revelation have a lot in common. Both push the genre and hardware to the limit (or Revelation did at the time), an eclection of everything the genres have done in the past and taken to the next level.

At the same time both of them can be critisised to subdue on theirselves for being pretty much the same as every other typical game in their genre in the market, but just more tweaked and refined, adding nothing substantially new to the table.

But Crysis is rated way higher simply because FPSs are the 'in' thing, and an obvious favourite genre for the reviewers, rather than fairly rating all their games equally with every kind of customer put into consideration.

To me that's snobbish, unfair and elitist.

Then there's the debate about the importance of advertisement, especially on internet review sites, the fact some of these guys get their paycheques from the very companies they're reviewing for, to me, severely clouds my judgement as to how these people would give an honest opinion of a highly publicised game.

Now before anyone points this out, I know this isn't the case with every game. Okami and Psychonauts got their fair share of raved reviews.

But at least I know when I read an amateur review, the person isn't being given cash in hand for his judgement.

A question I'd like to ask is why reviews don't take up the same rating style as Famitsu magazine. I've read they have 4 reviewers for every game, and at the end, all 4 give a rating from 1-10 each and tally it to total/40.
 

sumanai

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Terramax said:
I think you miss the point about entertaining. I don't me just being funny, but writing review that speaks to the reader at a personal level than just writing a boring essay, which appears to be the case with these reviews that go on for about 4 pages and/ or reviews without a writer's distinctive style.
That's what I meant with "interesting/enjoyable to read". So yes, it's in my opinion very important as well.

Haven't all of the Myst-games, except for the first one, got bad reviews for some unfathomable reason?
And believe it or not, there are gamesites, and I suppose even magazines, that have reviewers who actually give fair reviews. Just try to ignore the score, those things are rarely, if ever, tied in anyway to the review itself.

I wouldn't trust blindly on amateur reviews being unbribed. Considering that some companies hire people to make posts and comments in gaming sites for marketing purposes, it's not difficult to believe they'd hire some to write reviews for them. There should always be some doubt on the honesty of a person you don't know personally, nevermind whether they're writing for a magazine or not.
The Famitsu magazine's scoring system sounds pretty good. I'd prefer 1-5, but 1-10 probably works in this case better.

Personally, I'd go for "read several reviews from different sites, and from amateurs and professionals alike". With more focus on "several amateur reviews", since professional ones tend to focus on same aspects, aside from few exceptions. Ultimately a matter of taste naturally.
 

REDPill357

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Terramax said:
One of my favourite games is Myst IV: Revelation. Now, fair enough, the game has some glaring faults. It's obscenely hard for starters, but it's pretty much the revolution of point and click adventure games, and about as good as they're ever going to get.
But you forget that Myst wasn't photo-realistic, didn't have HDR, and didn't bring anything new to the table. How can you love a game that commits such atrocities!?

Crysis had wonderful graphics, and the nanosuit, a gimmick to make the gameplay "fresh." In game reviews, it doesn't matter if you take the best of the old and meld it into something better so the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It has to have NEW COVER SYSTEM, or 256,000x256,000 RESOLUTION SKINS or BLOOM SO REALISTIC, IT WILL BLIND YOU! You have to bring some gimmick to the table to remind people that they are playing a NEXT-GEN game, not a good game made out of the best of the old.