Reviving World War Two Games.

[ComradeJim270]

I think this is a great idea, and entirely possible, however it would be too hard, from a social perspective, to set it on the Western Front. Now, a game on the Eastern Front is a whole different story. Aside from being witness to the most epic and pivotal battles of the war in Europe, the conflict between Nazi Germany didn't have any "good guys". Both sides did horrible, horrible things in that conflict, in pretty much equal measure, and you could go for a very dark, dramatic tone. Honestly, if you did the presentation right, such a game, I think, would not seem stale at all.

What about a game where you're in the Maquis? That could be very different... lots of stealth, not like the stuff we're used to in WWII games. It could have RPG elements, interesting NPCs... in fact, such a game could be a sort of adventure/stealth/RPG thing... a genre-bender... anything but stale.

Damnit, I wish I had the expertise to do something with these ideas.

 

[ComradeJim270]

I say why do WW2 anymore. Why not go back to WW1 or the great war as we called it in my day. Yo can play as the Germans since the National Socialist weren't even formed back then. Trench warfare would make a great change from neach landings. maybe Australia could get a look in too since the Americans can't really properganderise(?!) a war they were bearly in.

Any level set before the last year of the war would be awe-inspiringly hard. You'd have to deal with posion gas you could not escape, searing your eyes and longs, or corroding your flesh... continuous barrages of fire you'd have no choice but to charge into... in fact, you'd probably HAVE to play the Germans here, because they were the only ones, IIRC, who developed infantry tactics that actually worked in trench warfare. Nobody else really figured out how to pull it off without tanks and planes.

 

[werepossum]

I love WW2 shooters and I'd buy one from the German (not Nazi) perspective. I really enjoyed the COD Russian bits and the Russians were pretty much as bad as the Germans. I wouldn't want to play as a Nazi committing atrocities or as a Russian commisar killing an entire Russian village (because if they had resisted the Nazis strongly enough they'd be dead and so they're all traitors.) Most WW2 soldiers were pretty much the same everywhere, they loved their country and/or were drafted and forced to fight.

I'd love to see a whole game on Stalingrad, from either (or both) perspectives. Or the Kursk campaign. Or the defense of the bocage country, constantly pushed back in bitter fighting. Maybe the Ardennes offensive, pushing through in an unstoppable rush only to gradually be stopped and then pushed back. Then you're down to fighting a desperate rear guard action, because even if you are sure your country is going to lose - even if you're sure your country should lose - you still don't want to see your friends killed, your cities destroyed and occupied.

Or the push through Belgium and France - wait, I don't want to buy a game THAT short! LOL

And even the Germans and the Japanese (well, mostly) think the Allies were the good guys in WW2. It's only weakminded westerners educated beyond their intelligence (and the odd skinhead) who think otherwise.

 

[werepossum]

Any level set before the last year of the war would be awe-inspiringly hard. You'd have to deal with posion gas you could not escape, searing your eyes and longs, or corroding your flesh... continuous barrages of fire you'd have no choice but to charge into... in fact, you'd probably HAVE to play the Germans here, because they were the only ones, IIRC, who developed infantry tactics that actually worked in trench warfare. Nobody else really figured out how to pull it off without tanks and planes.

My gut reaction is that any WW1 shooter would be horrible, as you'd spend most of your time huddling in a trench complex before charging out into no-man's land and dying. But actually the German storm trooper assault groups might make a great game. I'd miss the self-loading and automatic weapons though.

 

[ComradeJim270]

I love WW2 shooters and I'd buy one from the German (not Nazi) perspective. I really enjoyed the COD Russian bits and the Russians were pretty much as bad as the Germans. I wouldn't want to play as a Nazi committing atrocities or as a Russian commisar killing an entire Russian village (because if they had resisted the Nazis strongly enough they'd be dead and so they're all traitors.) Most WW2 soldiers were pretty much the same everywhere, they loved their country and/or were drafted and forced to fight.

I'd love to see a whole game on Stalingrad, from either (or both) perspectives. Or the Kursk campaign. Or the defense of the bocage country, constantly pushed back in bitter fighting. Maybe the Ardennes offensive, pushing through in an unstoppable rush only to gradually be stopped and then pushed back. Then you're down to fighting a desperate rear guard action, because even if you are sure your country is going to lose - even if you're sure your country should lose - you still don't want to see your friends killed, your cities destroyed and occupied.

Or the push through Belgium and France - wait, I don't want to buy a game THAT short! LOL

And even the Germans and the Japanese (well, mostly) think the Allies were the good guys in WW2. It's only weakminded westerners educated beyond their intelligence (and the odd skinhead) who think otherwise.

Stalingrad would be terribly depressing at the end of the German missions. "Three months later, Leutnant Fritz starved to death in a POW camp, along with 95% of the other Germans captured at Stalingrad." Still, it's a good idea.

Another good idea is a game based on Market Garden. Even as the Allies, it would be fun, because you'd start off alright, then the shit would hit the fan, and suddenly you're the underdog.

Kursk would be great for a game where you're a tank commander. Epic battles, yay!

EDIT: Yeah, a game where you're a WW1 storm trooper could be very awesome... slipping past the enemy, crossing no-man's-land, engaging in fierce close-range combat... even going up against British tanks!

 

[werepossum]

Stalingrad would be terribly depressing at the end of the German missions. "Three months later, Leutnant Fritz starved to death in a POW camp, along with 95% of the other Germans captured at Stalingrad." Still, it's a good idea.

Another good idea is a game based on Market Garden. Even as the Allies, it would be fun, because you'd start off alright, then the shit would hit the fan, and suddenly you're the underdog.

Kursk would be great for a game where you're a tank commander. Epic battles, yay!

EDIT: Yeah, a game where you're a WW1 storm trooper could be very awesome... slipping past the enemy, crossing no-man's-land, engaging in fierce close-range combat... even going up against British tanks!

Yeah, I think an entire Market Garden game for the 82nd and the 101st would be great. Starting out by yourself, then forming into LGPOPs (Little Groups of Pissed-Off Paratroopers) for some squad and platoon-sized action, finally engaging in major battles against ever-stiffening German forces. Probably pretty close to the same from the German perspective as well.

And I'd buy another game just of Frost's battalion's fight to and at the bridge. That would be a great game from the Germans' perspective as well. With an Allied army knocking on the door to your country, you wouldn't have to be a goose-stepper to fight hard. And the German battles would flow more like a conventional video game, gradually gaining more and more ground in desperate house-to-house fighting, finally eliminating the threat to the Fatherland.

Stalingrad would be a depressing battle from the German perspective even for those few who escaped or were evacuated. From there on out just an endless string of "Great victories for the Fatherland" which get closer and closer to Berlin.

Personally I don't get tired of the same setting and foes as long as the battles themselves have a bit of variety and the game progresses.

Yeah, I LOVE WW2 games!

 

[ComradeJim270]

Right! What makes this sort of game feel stale is repitition... Normandy, again and again... a bit of the Eastern Front here and there, and some North Africa now and then. If you mix things up by focusing on the battles we haven't played games about a few dozen times, I don't think it's optimistic to say that it would be a fresh and exciting experience.

The Stalingrad thing would be interesting. Assuming it had both German and Soviet parts, they would be in sharp contrast to each other. In the German levels, you'd start out as a well-equipped, battle-hardened soldier, but things would start to get more and more desperate... your comrades (ideally NPCs who are developed enough for you to actually care about) die... you start running out of ammo, and eventually, what you have left, you need to use to fight for food and water. The Soviet campaign would be the opposite... you start out as a peon with a rickety rifle and a handful of bullets, but as time goes on, you find yourself in a better position, with more and more troops arriving to back you up, better equipment... either way, very dramatic.

 

[second only to The One]

they should make a caveman type game, not like conan, but like realistic primitive humans might fight. rocks, makeshift spears, the sort

 

[Fire Daemon]

You can't do a game on the civil war. I mean come on a 30 second reload (highly trained slodier) to fire a shot that chances are will miss. I think a game set in the crusades or prehaps the 100 year war would be fun to play. It would be like anyother fps but with swords and bows instead of a lazer beam or krak98.

 

[Drong]

I know it's a little off topic but Harry Turtledove wrote a series of books called World War ('In The Balance' being the first) about an alien invasion occuring quite early in world war 2 with Germany ruling all of Europe and the only country that could put up a really solid defense (America was still mobalising, Russia had been suffering badly to the German advance and England was still reeling from Dunkirk.)

Anyway it's kind of what resistance could have been and there is a wealth of back story (8 thick books) to pull from and great characters on all sides (Colonel Heinreich Jäger a panzer commander is one of the most heroic in the series)and the (very) un easy truce that human kind come up with to try and save the species and the race (the aliens) are not just the cloned cannon fodder masses that you tend to find in these situations.

You could play campaigns all over the world from many different viewpoints and maybe even get involved in the ginger trade (ginger is an addictive substance for the race which human kind of course preys upon once discovered)

personally i'd like to see a combined run and gun agile gameplay (ala uncharted and assasins creed) combined with spy elements (ala Thief and Metal gear solid) with some roleplaying parts building your character up a bit (or maybe have you jumping in and out of lots of different charachters in the story like an expansion of what they did in CoD4

 

[Possum-Man]

My gut reaction is that any WW1 shooter would be horrible, as you'd spend most of your time huddling in a trench complex before charging out into no-man's land and dying. But actually the German storm trooper assault groups might make a great game. I'd miss the self-loading and automatic weapons though.

I think "Charging" is probably the wrong word to use. I'd use "Walking" as that's actually what they did.

P.M.

 

[monodiabloloco]

As with everyone else, I would like to see some different events/themes to base a shooter on.
however, to put my perspective on the original question, I think that a game from the German side of things, if pitched the correct way, could be produced. I think it would sell like mad just because people eat up a chance to shoot americans.--only half joking on that one. and don't get your pitchforks and torches out for me, americans (I'm one too). Really think about it and you know it's true.
How about this: You are a soldier, caught up in the fervor of the reich and convinced, like many others, that what you go to war for is a true cause and you go to fight against evil and to protect/forward the german way of life. After a few campaigns, you witness the horrors being commited.. the people dragged from their homes and dissapearing... you then realize the wrongs being commited. Scared of being killed, you keep between you and a friend. He agrees with your standpoint and you both escape after a battle. From that point, you then have to fight your way across to a safe country. You would have to avoid or kill patrols of all nations.. the germans because you would have to explain your reason for being away from your company, and thus probably arrested. The others because you don't want to be jailed as a POW.
This would basicly follow these friends across Europe, trying to get to whatever destination was chosen. Maybe they could play heroes and free some groups from trains bound for the camps, or play sabeture here and there/maybe work with the resistance inside later on.

 

[werepossum]

I think "Charging" is probably the wrong word to use. I'd use "Walking" as that's actually what they did. P.M.

I'd say a lot of walking if they could find a safe gap, but if not, when breaking through the lines (or if so, when attacking the rear echelons) they'd be charging. Granted, they'd be slowly charging compared to a horse (or a man without forty pounds of gear), but when firing and maneuvering they would want to move as fast as possible. If you're in the open and your opponents are in trenches, you want to close as quickly as possible.

One problem with WW2 games is precisely that they've been done to death. If a setting is new and fresh, it's easier to keep a player's interest. If you're re-fighting WW2, you need a good game to keep a player's interest. And if you're re-fighting the same old battles in WW2, you need an excellent game to keep a player's interest. And with games as with everything, 90% is crud. Unfortunately for gamers, it's easier to make a mediocre game fighting the same old battles.

 

[Scolar Visari]

You can take a realy cool game mechanic from haze and try to implement it. It goes like this, for the most part Haze seems like a T rated game with little blood and bright colors. Later in the game you see what your actualy doing without that filter. People die screaming in agony, blood splatters and the colors become darker. This would be like a young soldier finally seeing past his country's propaganda.

 

[Enemy_Combatant]

I was born 18 years after the end of WW2's hostilities. Much of my youth was spent in researching the era and being fascinated with the weapons and battles and etc. I have lost my fascination with the realities of war, however. In spite of this I will ever enjoy the setting in video games!

My immediate thought on this topic was to create a (FPS or FPS/RPG) protagonist who was either a foreign-born Wehrmacht conscript forced into the fray (as some eastern European fortress troops at Normandy were) or perhaps the protagonist might be a foreigner in the Waffen SS, maybe a deluded Walloon. (Repeat 3 times: deluded Walloon,deluded Walloon,deluded Walloon!) How might this game maniferst itself? Via our protagonist being an active participant in the conflict and always seeking opportunity to reclaim his(/her?) freedom to return to his homeland? Simple survival? Track the moral pendulum a la KoTR? Dunno.

Also, a combat flight sim in my extensive collection of PC games comes to mind, Luftwaffe Commander. Its career mode begins in the Spanish Civil war in 1936. This is a conflict I've rarely seen presented in gaming. The SCW was a conflict in which many nations were present, ostensibly to provide aid. In reality, the conflict provided opportunities to "playtest" some of the currently in development weapons and tactics. Fertile ground there for some enterprising development minds.

I believe that BADLY DONE games set in WW2 are what cause said historical period to be defined as "done to death". There is so much wealth of material present in the era that its potential to retain a presence in the world of gaming should not be in doubt.

Alternate history fascinates. It is a prime attraction in any wargame/historically based RTS, even FPSs, at least on an intellectual level. An example, "What if Churchill was killed when hit by a taxi in New York in 1931 (instead of merely being injured)?" THIS door is an open one, and many have stepped through it.

BTW, Drong's post re: Turtledove's "World War" series presented as a gaming premise is an excellent idea. Some may recall Ronald Reagan's suggestion that the world would unite if faced with an alien invasion. ;-) I very recently gave the "World War" series another read and don't fail to enjoy it with relish each time. I'd recommend it to fans of the era, I know for a fact that many gamers are quite literate! >chuckle CHEERS! <

 

[ComradeJim270]

You can't do a game on the civil war. I mean come on a 30 second reload (highly trained slodier) to fire a shot that chances are will miss. I think a game set in the crusades or prehaps the 100 year war would be fun to play. It would be like anyother fps but with swords and bows instead of a lazer beam or krak98.

I disagree, and if you have a look at my most recent review, you will find that it can be done, and has been. It hasn't been done WELL, but I state in that review that I think it can, and there's lots of untapped potential there.

I also need to point out that the figure I have seen most often is 20 seconds, and that rifled muskets were first used on a large scale in that war (hence the horrendous casualties when they tried to fight the old-fashioned way which assumed they'd mostly miss with musket volleys), repeating weapons were issued in limited numbers, and artillery and cavalry also played a part. Gatling guns also made a deadly debut in that conflict. On top of that, you need to remember that back then, bayonets actually served a purpose.

 

[PurpleRain]

I say why do WW2 anymore. Why not go back to WW1 or the great war as we called it in my day. Yo can play as the Germans since the National Socialist weren't even formed back then. Trench warfare would make a great change from neach landings. maybe Australia could get a look in too since the Americans can't really properganderise(?!) a war they were bearly in.

Any level set before the last year of the war would be awe-inspiringly hard. You'd have to deal with posion gas you could not escape, searing your eyes and longs, or corroding your flesh... continuous barrages of fire you'd have no choice but to charge into... in fact, you'd probably HAVE to play the Germans here, because they were the only ones, IIRC, who developed infantry tactics that actually worked in trench warfare. Nobody else really figured out how to pull it off without tanks and planes.

I for one would love that. Instead of constantly in blazing gunfights where you vs the nazi army, it's more like you running to your death/running from gas/scrounging for food/living it hard. Hell, chuck in a couple of elements of horror and you may have the best war game ever made.