Last post here for a few hours as I have to get back to work, we're clearly never going to agree though, so whatever.
Fagotto said:
Yes, it does have a bearing on things. You'd have to stick your head in the sand to not see that some people have certain social agendas based on their religion.
Furthermore it is irrelevant whether it has any bearing on something. That does not lower the standards of evidence.
And lastly, just saying 'metaphysics' doesn't make it valid. That is not how validity works.
What someone chooses to believe has absolutely no bearing on anything aside from what they choose to believe.
How they choose to
act has very significant effects on others, but belief is a fully separate thing. I'll get into that later in this post.
And you're right, throwing a word around doesn't make an argument valid, but I don't think you grasp the fundamental point I'm trying to get at. Whatever a religious person believes, it is literally "meta-physical", literally "above physics". There is no concrete, physical basis to be proven or disproven. It's fundamentally incompatible with such concepts. Because of that, both conclusions are equally valid.
Fagotto said:
In other words you're going to persist in your lack of integrity. You should quit it because it shows you lack integrity to keep repeating points that have nothing to do with what I said. I never said they had no right to it. It's as if I started repeating "Women have a right not to be raped" to everything you said.
How does my statement have any bearing on my integrity? You're the one who brought it up in the first place. You attacked the fact that others hold a different opinion from yours. There's really nothing else to it. They drew a different conclusion than you did, you then proceeded to start raving about how wrong they are for doing so. My point was that if they wanted to believe in an invisible ball of flying noodles that creates gravity by pushing down on us with His Noodly Apendages, that is their right. It has no bearing on you. As long as they have examined their beliefs and found sufficient reason to believe it, you have no grounds to criticize them for it.
Fagotto said:
Objectively false since people act on it.
I'll get into more detail on this later.
Fagotto said:
OMG. Can you fucking stop for a second and read what I actually write? Because it seems that you have the absurd delusion that I am telling someone they cannot believe in it. OMFG you're annoying.
Because, and this might seem like a shock,
YOU FUCKING ARE.
"Oh god, you're so incredibly wrong!" is exactly the same as saying "Oh god, you can't believe this shit!". You are quite literally saying that your viewpoint is the only valid one, and it's an utterly ludicrous stance to take.
Fagotto said:
Utter nonsense. If you want me to support the statement feel free to provide your own first.
That is nonsense. Behavior should be based on beliefs.
Belief in a religion is a personal choice involving examining the available evidence and coming to a conclusion you can live with.
Behavior is an external choice wherein one makes a decision and performs an act.
Your behavior is not defined by your religion, just like your beliefs are not defined by your behavior. Some of the most heinous and/or vicious killers in the last several decades were devout holy men, while several millions of atheists live good, productive, meaningful lives. The opposite is equally true.
It all comes down to the person and the choices they make. Religion can factor into it, just like logic, emotion and the time of the fucking month can factor into it. Holding up religion as a scapegoat for behavior devalues everything about humanity. The fact of the matter is, people make choices and act upon them. That person's religious beliefs are no more responsible than that person's upbringing, social status, or breakfast.
There are plenty of people, especially in the US, who think their religion is the only possible option, and because of that, they try to enforce their beliefs on everyone.
This is exactly as wrong as trying to force everyone to not believe.
People have the right and obligation to make their own decisions on such topics. Trying to force either one is one of the most heinous things a person can do.
Edit: For the sake of increased clarity, I shall try to make a short summary of the gist of my arguments:
People are allowed to believe illogical things. If you don't agree, too fucking bad. No one is any more right because no one can be proven to be right. It's a personal choice of theirs, and it affects no one but themselves. Get the fuck off their nuts.
