Right to die?

[Bara_no_Hime]

Ah, this goes to the Hypocratic Oath though. and the problems with it. Yes, you don't want to harm him, but at the same time it would be a waste of precious resources to save him only for him to try again.

That's the trouble with the oath - what is the definition of "do no harm".

In this case, the patient wanted to die and had done everything in his power to accomplish this. The doctors were causing harm by trying to save him. The proper course would be to do nothing - and therefore no harm - and let him die.

However, some doctors will argue that standing aside and doing nothing is "doing harm" and that they must interfere and make things better.

I think the key is the "do". The point of the oath, IMO, is to only do what is helpful, not that which is harmful. If you aren't sure which it is, your oath should prevent you from taking action - you should not do, rather than risk doing something harmful.

But that's just my read of the oath. Let us also recall that this oath was created several thousand years ago before current medical technology was anywhere near it's current level. The Ethics of 400 BCE are not necessarily the Ethics of 2012.

 

[chadachada123]

If it's a forgone conclusion: Then it is absolutely wasted resources.

That said: Suicide is a tough issue for me, and I absolutely think that it should be legally permissible for people that go through, say, a two-week process through the judicial system to make sure that the client does in fact want to end his life peacefully.

In this case, if the victim is already essentially braindead, there's no point in trying to save them.

For people in comas with no chance of recovery: It's essentially torturing a dead body to keep them alive, and is morally repugnant.

 

[-Samurai-]

You save him. Then you let him get sued by the person who's vehicle he likely destroyed while trying to kill himself.

Why inconvenience others on your way out?

 

[White Lightning]

You save him. Then you let him get sued by the person who's vehicle he likely destroyed while trying to kill himself.

Why inconvenience others on your way out?

Because it would be halirious.

I think if someone wants to do it, and is in the proper state of mind then sure, let them do it.

 

[Joccaren]

I support the right to die, but if the person is suffering from depression it gets a bit more interesting.
I wouldn't say I'm entirely against it, but I'm not for it either. I'd have to call it on a case by case basis.

But if someone is perfectly sane, and wants to die, why not let them?

 

[rob_simple]

I think some people should just be allowed to die. If someone wants help to improve their life then they should be afforded every available resource, even if they continue to harm themselves throughout, but there are some people for whom life just isn't worth living and forcing them to keep going is a far worse punishment

It's a completely different scenario, but I'm sure a lot of people in the UK will be familiar with the guy who died recently after years suffering from Locked-In Syndrome. He was denied the right to euthanasia because he was physically incapable of doing it himself so anyone who helped him would be complicit in murder. Eventually, after his last appeal to change the law was denied, he refused to be fed and died a few weeks later of pneumonia.

Throughout the whole ordeal he made a point of saying 'I'm not saying everyone who has my condition should kill themselves, but my life is hell and I don't want to live it anymore.' He was of completely sound mind but without a functioning body (he had to communicate through a series of blinks on a computer screen) and yet still the law refused to let anyone help in ending his life.

And even after watching a documentary about him, I don't understand what the argument against his position was; the only thing I saw was one idiot who kept parroting the same thing: 'oh, it will set a dangerous precedent.' A precedent for what? For able-minded people to end their lives if it is their wish to do so?

 

[triggrhappy94]

I don't think we should up hold someone's wish to die. Depression is the result of a chemical inbalance in the brain. Floading the system with drugs isn't the answer either, however. Instead of paying for multiple ER visits, insurance/whoever should have them see a therapist or a psychiatrist. I know doctor are allowed to deem someone mentally unfit and hold them for 24 hours if they've attempted suicide.

 

[Kolby Jack]

As far as I'm concerned, if you think you have nothing to live for, you should FIND something to live for before you think about death. If life is too hard for you, make some changes. You'd be amazed at how accommodating people will be to those who have sunk so low. Basically, there's always another, better option, and if it's not immediately clear to you, it never hurts to ask. If people are trying to help you, it isn't pity, it's kindness.

As for people in vegetative states or with locked-in syndrome or the like, that's murky at best and really the final decision should come from your family so long as you can't make it yourself.

 

[newfoundsky]

I think everyone should have the right, providing they undergo a psych evaluation first to ensure they're not suffering from depression and the like.

That's not really fair to the psychiatrist. Just imagine, everyone you say is healthy is going to die. If they aren't healthy, they blame you because they can't die when they want to. Before you know it, you'll be one of the people needing evaluated.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

My Uncle once said to me that if he ever ends up demented, decrepit and in a home he'd sooner I saw him off with a shotgun than stay like that. Of course, he might well have changed his mind in 40 years.

 

[squidface]

It strikes me as odd that a person wanting to die, who tried committing and then failed, would go to a hospital. If they hadn't changed their mind, I doubt they wouldn't just leave themselves at the side of the road to die. Going to a hospital seems like a cry for help, so saving their life is probably the right thing to do.

Also shouldn't there be like a trigger warning on this or something? D:

 

[Palademon]

I think in cases of depression you should do what you can, simply because that person is probably not in their right mind at the time. (I'm saying this as a person who has a lot of experience dealing with depressed people).

So what is the right mind to attempt suicide?

Surely you'd have to be really depressed to want to.

 

[nat_401]

I believe we should have the right to end our own life when we see fit, but I dont think we should have the right to force others to participate in our own death. In the example of someone jumping in front of a car they are involving the driver and passingers of said car and the medical team who are legally responsible for treating them afterwards.

 

[MetalMagpie]

People can do things on the spur of the moment that they later regret, especially when suffering from depression. So in the case you described, I think the doctors should do all they can to save the person.

More generally, I do believe we have a right to die. My life belongs to me, and I should have the right to end it if I no longer want to continue with it.

However, someone needs to be judged capable of making that decision before being allowed to end their own life. (Which is the most relevant in DNR and assisted suicide cases.)

 

[Woodsey]

I think in cases of depression you should do what you can, simply because that person is probably not in their right mind at the time. (I'm saying this as a person who has a lot of experience dealing with depressed people).

So what is the right mind to attempt suicide?

Surely you'd have to be really depressed to want to.

If you have a terminal illness then it'd be the preferred option for a lot of people.

 

[MetalMagpie]

So what is the right mind to attempt suicide?

People with extremely painful and/or debilitating medical conditions (and no hope of recovery) sometimes decide that they're rather not continue. It's similar to the circumstances that lead to someone asking for DNR to be written on their file in hospital.

There was a particularly famous example in the UK recently, because it caused a legal battle: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-19341571

 

[Arfonious]

There is allways a good reason to try and save a persons life, he/she might just regret trying to kill him/herself

 

[Starik20X6]

While I can see both sides of the argument here, and am in no way qualified to answer this sort of thing, I will say this: I figure it's so frighteningly easy to die by accident, there's no way you could fail to kill yourself if you truly meant it. I can only see a 'failed' suicide attempt as a desperate cry for help. To go screaming in the face of millions of years of evolution and survival instinct takes some serious commitment.

 

[Overusedname]

Penn and Teller: Bullsh!t did an episode on this...Well, it was about some broader topic but I forget which. It was one of the few times the show addressed a gray area.

Anyway, I think if the person seems mentally stable, then yes, putting aside how exactly one gauges that. I'll put it this way: I had to put my dog to sleep a few years back. If I hadn't, he would have suffered for months and died slowly and painfully. He was a happy dog, so I didn't wanna ruin his last moments just so I could have more time.

If a dog can do it, so can a human.

Captcha: beautiful friendship

Yeah, he was a good dog...

 

[WoW Killer]

Specifically you give an example which combines the attempt of death with the apparent forgone conclusion at the time of their treatment. In this case I don't think the combination of factors changes anything. They do not appear to have been in sound mind, so you must treat them as a normal patient. Further, if a normal patient has a million-to-one chance of survival then you do everything you can to give them that chance.

While I do think people of sound mind have a right to die, I think it's a very complex issue for a medical professional. In this example, you're presented with a patient having minimal chances of survival and have a very short amount of time to make your decision. How do you know this person wanted to die? Even if you're told as such by a relative, you can't take that as the truth, and you don't exactly have the time needed to confirm such things. It's very difficult to imagine a scenario in which it would be correct not to attempt to save a person in such an emergency condition.