RPG - why stats matter

[Hyper-space]

But this is a statistics. Let me give you an example

Let's take the following slider:


Weak-----------------Strong

This is a visual representation of a scale from 0 to 10(or whatever numbers you like).
This is what's really going on:


0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Weak------------------Strong

So whatever you put the scale in the middle or have a box saying +4 strength it's the same thing.

But those numbers that you refer to is just the code (what values affect gameplay etc.) and not the stat system itself.

In a regular RPG, it goes something like this: Code -> representation -> outcome. The code part is just the game itself (programming and so on), while the representation is either stats or the slider that i proposed (this is what can manifest itself differently) and is the thing i want developers to experiment and innovate with. Plus i think with a slider, you would get something with a much more numbers, ranging from 0.1 (or even 0.05) to 10 (with every point something inbetween) as this slider is adjusted smoothly.

 

[Bostur]

But those numbers that you refer to is just the code (what values affect gameplay etc.) and not the stat system itself.

In a regular RPG, it goes something like this: Code -> representation -> outcome. The code part is just the game itself (programming and so on), while the representation is either stats or the slider that i proposed (this is what can manifest itself differently) and is the thing i want developers to experiment and innovate with. Plus i think with a slider, you would get something with a much more numbers, ranging from 0.1 (or even 0.05) to 10 (with every point something inbetween) as this slider is adjusted smoothly.

Playing with the presentation of the numbers can matter a lot. Games are all in our head anyway, so if another type of presentation makes it easier to visualize it this can help. In my experience, when I encounter stats that are presented in a non-numerical manner, I often get a little annoyed and wish I could just see the number instead. I think this may be because I'm translating the slider or scale to a number anyway. Other people may read it in a different way and their experience may be different because of this.

In general I think the difference is similar to the advantages and disadvantages of digital versus analogue displays in a car or an aircraft. Analogue displays are faster to read but less accurate (slider) while digital displays are slower to read but more accurate (number).

In a fast action paced game I generally prefer a scale, in a slow paced game I prefer numbers.

 

[Hyper-space]

But those numbers that you refer to is just the code (what values affect gameplay etc.) and not the stat system itself.

In a regular RPG, it goes something like this: Code -> representation -> outcome. The code part is just the game itself (programming and so on), while the representation is either stats or the slider that i proposed (this is what can manifest itself differently) and is the thing i want developers to experiment and innovate with. Plus i think with a slider, you would get something with a much more numbers, ranging from 0.1 (or even 0.05) to 10 (with every point something inbetween) as this slider is adjusted smoothly.

Playing with the presentation of the numbers can matter a lot. Games are all in our head anyway, so if another type of presentation makes it easier to visualize it this can help. In my experience, when I encounter stats that are presented in a non-numerical manner, I often get a little annoyed and wish I could just see the number instead. I think this may be because I'm translating the slider or scale to a number anyway. Other people may read it in a different way and their experience may be different because of this.

In general I think the difference is similar to the advantages and disadvantages of digital versus analogue displays in a car or an aircraft. Analogue displays are faster to read but less accurate (slider) while digital displays are slower to read but more accurate (number).

In a fast action paced game I generally prefer a scale, in a slow paced game I prefer numbers.

Maybe the slider approach is more realistic in terms of what you know, ripped = strong, lean = agile, etc. As you rarely approach an enemy knowing where exactly he is on a scale from 1-10. And i think its an approach that is taken far too rarely, not just one of uncertainty, but the approach of having the player "scout" or reconnaissance the enemy for more information. I believe that this could enhance the experience when it comes to strategy and provides an extra level of depth to the tactics and ways you deal with the enemy.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

I've posted this a couple of times before, but I find it relevant here.

In the beginning, before anyone had heard be name RPG outside of the bedroom, there was Dungeons and Dragons.
Now, DnD had 2 major aspects in it's game.
You had your adventure, the story, the plot, the choices. The Role play.
and, The battles, the skill checks the +5 Hammer of Smiting. The Roll play.

30 years later, and video games have evolved into 2 general directions.
The games who pay more attention to the Role Play, AKA oblivion, Mass Effect, Fable.
And the games that focus more on stats. Final Fantasy, Diablo.

Both have a story, and while you can't actively contribute to the story in a Final Fantasy game. There is still a lot of Role Play. Just not in the form of choices.
Your role is fixed, yes. But, like a actor, you can still crawl into the characters and feel their connection to the world.

Roger Moore didn't get the pick the choices for the Bond the role played.

Excellent point. As acting enthusiast, I think this a good definition of "role-playing game." The "role" is just like an acting role, and any game where you assume a role or multiple roles can be considered an RPG. The difference between your Final Fantasys and your Mass Effects comes down to whether the "role" is scripted or improvisational, whether you are an actor on a stage during a scripted play, or a guest participant at a murder mystery dinner show, assuming the role and choosing your reactions to circumstances and developments. In both instances, the focus is on the characters as they move through an unfolding story. The difference comes down to, "How much freedom do you have over the outcome?"

This doesn't do anything to address the OP's concern of the relative importance of stat-based gaming systems, so let's get back to that.

I personally think that "role-playing" is all about the story and that stat-based systems are only considered an intrinsic part of "role-playing games" because of their traditional long-term association with them. Stat-based systems were created to give guidelines to what a player can and can't do, particularly in terms of combat and character power. They were created so that there were rules in place to prevent someone from telling the DM/GM, "I'm gonna cast a giant fireball that destroys the entire city! Then I cast a spell of invincibility on myself and kill a legion of dragons! They can't hurt me because I'm invincible."

Stat systems limited player power to elevate "playing make believe" that children do to "role-playing." Whereas kids pretending to be superheroes vs. villains might get into a argument of who shot their superpower at the other first, role-players have a stat system in place to govern such disputes.

The thing is, you can have "role-playing game" where the "degree of success/failure" is determined by some other gameplay mechanic, as opposed to "degree of success/failure" being governed by stats. In my view, it IS conceivably possible to have a "role-playing game" with no STAT SYSTEM WHATSOEVER.

Based on the transition between ME and ME2, and the developer commentary on ME3, it seems that the series is moving towards this end of the spectrum.

Some people love it, some hate it. Doesn't mean that it's "wrong" or that Mass Effect 3 is "less of a role-playing game because it lacks a strong stat system," it's just a different kind of role-playing game.

 

[Kotep]

RPGs don't need stats to be an RPG.

Stats do add depth to roleplaying, and are important because they add choice and a sense of growth. Fewer stats doesn't make a game automatically worse, but they're not irrelevant either.