RPGs

[Avatar Roku]

Okay, a little background and a humorous anecdote before I get into my problem: I was talking to a friend of mine today about video games. At one point, I brought up Mass Effect. He immediately said he hated it because there's too much talking (which I can sort if understand, even if it is, like my other friend put it, like saying "I hate Halo because you have to run in it"). Eventually, this discussion panned out into RPGs as a whole. When I asked what RPGs he likes, he said, and I kid you not, Assassin's Creed and GTA IV. Obviously, he has confused sandbox games with RPGs. When I called him on this, he said "well, there's a lot of freedom and you can choose what you do. Isn't that what an RPG is?" He then asked, if not, what an RPG really is. Now, I know what an RPG is, but I can't find any way to word it. All I could think of on the spot was character customization. So, I need help; what are the components of an RPG, and how can I word this in a way to differentiate it from sandbox games? I know the answer, I just can't word it.

EDIT:Another thing. In that same conversation, he called GTA IV a First Person Shooter. Just throwing it out there.

 

[ZeroMachine]

Well, if you want to get literal, every game is an RPG. You Play a Role in every Game. But, in gaming terms, the genre is defined by leveling. That concept has bridged out to many other genres, so you here stuff like "An FPS with RPG elements" for games like BioShock and Deus Ex. Classic RPGs are defined by turn-based battles and grinding (which I'm pretty sure has a different defenition in GTA 4 =P).

Easiest way to explain it to him though would be to have him play one. I'd suggest Chrono Trigger, or maybe one of the Mario RPGs, to start him off easy.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Thanks, though I'm not sure if having him play them will work, I only see the guy at school. One of the problems is that he has played RPGs which feed into his current idea of them. For example, he's played Fallout 3, which is an RPG which just happens to also be open world. This led him to deduce not just that an open world is an important part of an RPG, but that its the important part.

 

[Esdras]

if you are playing a role of a character it could be described as an RPG game. The classic way to define an RPG usually includes leveling up, aquiring items/money and being able to train/build your character.

 

[Neosage]

Mages and priests and warriors usually but if it is futuristic stuff like engineers and stuff. Bacially games with classes in.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

As games continue to blend various gameplay dynamics this discussion will become even more convaluted than it currently is. But I typically regard an RPG as a game where mathematical statistical results (yes I know it's a computer but I'm talking stats not binary math you literal tangental trolls) define the result of your actions instead of your skill.

 

[Avatar Roku]

As games continue to blend various gameplay dynamics this discussion will become even more convaluted than it currently is. But I typically regard an RPG as a game where mathematical statistical results (yes I know it's a computer but I'm talking stats not binary math you literal tangental trolls) define the result of your actions instead of your skill.

That's probably how I'll describe it. If anyone else has ideas, please continue telling them.

 

[Fightgarr]

Any game in which the development of a character is a present and key element in gameplay can be considered an RPG. For example, in some games leveling does not really exist (a la Fable) but as you train skills your character develops a certain way. Or in the case of Zelda, over the course of the game you travel to unlock new skills and tools which develop your character, so in a certain way that can be considered an RPG.
Simply put you're developing your own character, regardless of dialogue, levels, linearity etc.

 

[blood77]

Any game in which the development of a character is a present and key element in gameplay can be considered an RPG. For example, in some games leveling does not really exist (a la Fable) but as you train skills your character develops a certain way. Or in the case of Zelda, over the course of the game you travel to unlock new skills and tools which develop your character, so in a certain way that can be considered an RPG.
Simply put you're developing your own character, regardless of dialogue, levels, linearity etc.

I am sorry, but are you trying to describe what a RPG is or make a case for orannis62's friend?

 

[Fightgarr]

Any game in which the development of a character is a present and key element in gameplay can be considered an RPG. For example, in some games leveling does not really exist (a la Fable) but as you train skills your character develops a certain way. Or in the case of Zelda, over the course of the game you travel to unlock new skills and tools which develop your character, so in a certain way that can be considered an RPG.
Simply put you're developing your own character, regardless of dialogue, levels, linearity etc.

I am sorry, but are you trying to describe what a RPG is or make a case for orannis62's friend?

I don't understand how I'm making a case for his friend. But people appear to be defining a RPG by terms of leveling and things found in many Western and Japanese RPGs. I'm simply saying what I believe an RPG is, and I do not believe that it requires leveling, or intense amounts of dialogue. All I'm trying to say is that RPGs are about the development of a character, I'm not trying to say anything more than that.

 

[blood77]

Any game in which the development of a character is a present and key element in gameplay can be considered an RPG. For example, in some games leveling does not really exist (a la Fable) but as you train skills your character develops a certain way. Or in the case of Zelda, over the course of the game you travel to unlock new skills and tools which develop your character, so in a certain way that can be considered an RPG.
Simply put you're developing your own character, regardless of dialogue, levels, linearity etc.

I am sorry, but are you trying to describe what a RPG is or make a case for orannis62's friend?

I don't understand how I'm making a case for his friend. But people appear to be defining a RPG by terms of leveling and things found in many Western and Japanese RPGs. I'm simply saying what I believe an RPG is, and I do not believe that it requires leveling, or intense amounts of dialogue. All I'm trying to say is that RPGs are about the development of a character, I'm not trying to say anything more than that.

Ah, ok I was not trying to attack you, just really didn't understand.

 

[ThatJoelGuy]

Just say the three magic words, Like Final Fantasy. Im sure he knows of at least one of those.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

It's what happens when you make a game out of role play. Character development and characteristics are defined with statistics. Game rules compare the statistics, actions of the player and game word to work out what happens; usually using some sort of random factor built into the statistical model.

So simple. I don't see how anybody could get confused.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

RPG's are games inspired (however loosely) by Dungeons and Dragons, plain and simple. If it doesn't feel like its inspired by a pen and paper RPG, with stats, equipment and levels then it's not an "RPG".

They are called RPG's because they are based off of Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games.

 

[Silver]

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch.

An RPG is game with levels? A game with classes? Ouch, seriously. Is that what people think these days? Is Ghost recon an rpg then, you get "exp points" after every mission, you level up your abilities, you pick your gear (well, sort of) and you have classes.

Really. An RPG is about roleplaying, you take on another personality, another character. Levelling up, experience points, classes, that's just gameplay mechanics, much like reloading or switching weapons or using vehicles in an fps. It's a pretty darn common one, but it's beside the point. Just like reloading or using vehicles or switching weapons is in an fps.

It's hard to draw an exact line, but what usually separates RPG's from other genres is choice and interaction.

For example, what makes Fallout an rpg is not that you level up, or your stats. It's that you (usually) have a character with a personality, interacting with the world in different ways, helping people, murdering people, talking to people or just living, as you choose.

This is also what keeps a game like say, Silent Storm from being an rpg. It brags about having strong rpg-elements with a lot of characters, and they are really well-written and nice, I agree. They also level up a lot, but since nothing you do ever takes you away from the storyline, since you have no choice in anything related to your character, dialogue, actions, loyalties, no matter how immersive or how many levels and stats it has it won't be an rpg, even if you customize and take on a role.

 

[GenHellspawn]

Mages and priests and warriors usually but if it is futuristic stuff like engineers and stuff. Bacially games with classes in.

Like Battlefield and Team Fortress, those are great examples of RPG's.

I hate it when a game is considered an RPG just because you level up and gain items and use classes. Call of Duty 4 has all of these elements, and nobody in the right mind would call that an RPG, would they?

 

[Neosage]

Mages and priests and warriors usually but if it is futuristic stuff like engineers and stuff. Bacially games with classes in.

Like Battlefield and Team Fortress, those are great examples of RPG's.

I hate it when a game is considered an RPG just because you level up and gain items and use classes. Call of Duty 4 has all of these elements, and nobody in the right mind would call that an RPG, would they?

Okay then you define RPG.

Edit: COD 4 has levels? and classes? Also seeing as I am feeling like a dickhead of course games with CLASSES ROLES IN ARE FUCKING RPGs!!!!

 

[Silver]

Are you saying your definition is correct? Then what about World of Darkness, Bloodlines, Deus ex, Fallout? No classes whatsoever in any of them, and some of the most generally accepted RPG's out there. (Well, the first one rather obviously since it's an RPG system, and not a computer game)

 

[Neosage]

Are you saying your definition is correct? Then what about World of Darkness, Bloodlines, Deus ex, Fallout? No classes whatsoever in any of them, and some of the most generally accepted RPG's out there. (Well, the first one rather obviously since it's an RPG system, and not a computer game)

Like to see your definition, yes maybe I could of thought mine out a little more but at least I gave one.

And fallout does have classes or a class like thing in.

Edit: I think I have a very differen't idea to what an RPG is to you, it really depends on your definitions, I would say WoW or dungeons and dragons are RPGS as you play roles necessary for the team, you obviously see them as anything that is a sort of single-player thing with that you can modify your character in. (not saying that these aren't RPS but...)

 

[MisterStaypuft]

here's my list of characteristics for a pure RPG

-stats, XP, and levels are the CORE gameplay mechanic, not just peripheral

-inventory management is an important mechanic (name one RPG where this isn't true)

-combat is almost always turn based, or recognizably evolved from a turn based system

-whether you hit with an attack depends on your character's stats rather than your own twitch/aim skills

this definition means that mass effect is a hybrid, since you actually aim the guns yourself.

I'd recommend something else in bioware's library, like KotOR, to introduce the real RPG genre... but this friend isn't going to like RPGs.