Sam Killermann's TEDx Talk on Gender

[Darken12]

Sam Killermann is the comedian behind It's Pronounced Metrosexual [http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/], and the creator of such educational resources as the Genderbread Person [http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Genderbread-2.1.jpg].

Here is a TEDx talk he gave on the differences between biological sex, gender identity and gender expression. He's got an excellent sense of humour and spends most of the talk speaking in rhyme (so if you like Jim and Yahtzee's show, give this a try).


While I personally don't exactly agree with the things he includes within biological sex, and I don't necessarily share his ideal world (my ideal world is very much gender-blind), I definitely support his views and his intent to educate people about gender.

[HEADING=3]As usual, I implore of everyone to keep the rules of the board in mind when posting. Thank you.[/HEADING]

 

[Jayemsal]

I'm quite familiar with his stuff, very proud to see him educating people on the complexities of gender.

Unfortunately, you said the G word, so this thread is likely to explode into arguments.

 

[Darken12]

I'm quite familiar with his stuff, very proud to see him educating people on the complexities of gender.

Unfortunately, you said the G word, so this thread is likely to explode into arguments.

You're probably right, of course, but if the TED talk ends up making at least one person go "huh, that guy has a point", then I will consider my mission here accomplished.

 

[Jayemsal]

I'm quite familiar with his stuff, very proud to see him educating people on the complexities of gender.

Unfortunately, you said the G word, so this thread is likely to explode into arguments.

You're probably right, of course, but if the TED talk ends up making at least one person go "huh, that guy has a point", then I will consider my mission here accomplished.

Idealism is appreciated, to be sure.

I can only hope you're right.

That wont stop people from making knee jerk responses as they cling desperately to their binary ideas of gender.

 

[Darken12]

Idealism is appreciated, to be sure.

I can only hope you're right.

That wont stop people from making knee jerk responses as they cling desperately to their binary ideas of gender.

Sometimes idealism is all that stands between sanity and going on a roaring rampage through the city.

No, it will not. But we can always ignore the jerkasses and focus on people open to education.

 

[ThreeName]

I can't stand this guy's presentation. I got to the rhyming nonsense and had to stop.

Also I thought TED talks were in big concert-type environment? This looks like a classroom.

 

[trollnystan]

I can't stand this guy's presentation. I got to the rhyming nonsense and had to stop.

Also I thought TED talks were in big concert-type environment? This looks like a classroom.

At the very beginning of the video it says it's a TEDx talk, an independently organised TED talk, taking place at the University of Illinois. So no, it's not an "official" TED talk, but done in the spirit and with the blessing of the same.

[insert The More You Know rainbow]


EDIT: Now that I've watched the video - I exceeded my bandwidth again so slow internet is slow - that was very interesting. Thank you for sharing, OP.

 

[plugav]

Loved it. I think I even learned some new stuff. It's a really good introduction to the basics -- and that's probably all most people are ever going to need.

 

[Rednog]

I would definitely make sure that in this thread and future ones that you note that it is a TEDx.
TED Talks carry a certain weight because they're usually presented as these are distinguished speakers or this stuff has been reviewed for quality content.
Whereas TEDx's just gets the license to use the TED logo, the speakers aren't backed by TED Talks, which results in the X's being very hit and miss.

In this case the video is ok. But with no fact checking you kind of have to take X's with a grain of salt. For example the age old "Boys like blue, Girls like pink", it's a force of society not nature. Back in the day boys were supposed to like red/pink because it was a color of "passion" where girls were supposed to like blue because it was a "calm/peaceful" color.

 

[Darken12]

I would definitely make sure that in this thread and future ones that you note that it is a TEDx.

Fixed.

In this case the video is ok. But with no fact checking you kind of have to take X's with a grain of salt. For example the age old "Boys like blue, Girls like pink", it's a force of society not nature. Back in the day boys were supposed to like red/pink because it was a color of "passion" where girls were supposed to like blue because it was a "calm/peaceful" color.

That was exactly his point, that gender is cultural. That's why he separated biological sex from gender identity and gender expression. His use of the word "science" after the rhyme about girls and rugs is loaded with sarcasm, precisely to shine a light on all these myths we believe to be supported by science, when in fact aren't.

 

[Ren_Li]

What, no hate yet?
I think what we have to understand is that the majority of people who are willing to sit down and watch all of this are the same people who are already able to understand more of what he says than your average person. Sad to say, but the majority of people who do NOT understand the stuff he covers are also going to be unwilling to watch this.

The video is okay, the rhyming bothered me less than I thought it would. Guy doesn't come across as a comedian to me, but that doesn't really matter; it's an accessible video to those who are relatively new to the idea of gender being more than binary.

 

[PBMcNair]

I should not have watched that at 9.30am after a night of no sleep. But it was at least interesting. Could have done without the rhyming though.

What, no hate yet?
I think what we have to understand is that the majority of people who are willing to sit down and watch all of this are the same people who are already able to understand more of what he says than your average person.

I'm going to be honest, I only gave it a shot because his name was Sam Killermann, which in going to be my new go-to RPG name.
But the lack of hate is refreshing indeed.

 

[The_Echo]

I kind of couldn't take him quite as seriously when he started rhyming. But, the way I understand it, biological sex = gender.

"Gender identity" and "gender expression" are direct results of the gender norms and clichés that these very people point out as being being incorrect or whatever.

The adjectives "masculinity" and "femininity" are directly linked with a culture and how they collectively view men and women. Without separate views on either biological sex, we would not have those adjectives, we wouldn't even have metrosexuality.

I'd even go as far to say that we wouldn't have these non-binary genders if we didn't have collective assumptions or views on the binary genders. Because there'd be no template from which to feel "I don't fit into this."

So, to me, there are men and women. And that's it.[footnote]Just give me a moment to prepare my flame shield.[/footnote] Either gender can do whatever the hell they want, and that doesn't make them any less or more of a man or woman.

I don't mean to be offensive, but I think this whole topic is just... unnecessary.

 

[Darken12]

I'd even go as far to say that we wouldn't have these non-binary genders if we didn't have collective assumptions or views on the binary genders. Because there'd be no template from which to feel "I don't fit into this."

That's his point, that the notion of gender is cultural and therefore mutable. We wouldn't have people struggling to "fit in" if we weren't so rigid about our conceptions of gender, and particularly the way we police gender in others (his side-speech about how we become directors in other people's plays).

I think this whole topic is just... unnecessary.

Everything is unnecessary.

 

[Nickolai77]

I found myself agreeing with him on most of the facts, but my interpretation of some of those facts differed from his. There were also some points were i wasn't quite sure what his exact argument was.

For instance at one point he says that sex doesn't have an exclusive mandate over gender behaviour, a point i agree with, but then in other places i felt he was implying the two are entirely separate, especially when he envisioned a society were it was normal to challenge gender norms.

I feel that gender and sex are related, in the sense that many gender norms are social and cultural projections of our sexual biology. Those projections can be adjusted to an extent by society- i.e- wherever men wear tights or not, if girls wear pink or blue etc- but it's also shaped by our own sex- Which is why you can't socially condition someone to be a gender that doesn't align with their sex, and perhaps why gender roles are broadly similar in all human societies.

There are people who feel their sex and gender aren't aligned, or that they don't feel societies gender expectations are right for them- society needs to learn to be more tolerant of such people so they're free to confidently express their identity in a way that suits them. However, on the whole the considerable majority of people are quite happy being male or female in a gendered sense, because that's how they are inside the head, because of their sex.

I never really liked how some feminists say your assigned a gender at birth- as if to imply that given the choice the baby wouldn't naturally be male or female. Raised in a "state of nature" shall we say, i expect such a baby would have a different take on their gender than someone raised in their society. In the same sort of way that a medieval understanding of gender is different to a 21st century one, but the whole i'd say it will fall into the male or female camp depending on its sex- because on the whole most people are comfortably male or female in sex and in gender, which is why we "assign" gender in the first place. It's assumed with a reasonable degree of certainty that the child's sex will shape its gender identity.

 

[Darken12]

gender roles are broadly similar in all human societies.

This is factually incorrect, unless you are stretching the definition of "broad" to encompass cultures with almost opposing views on gender. A lot of cultures have similar gender roles purely due to cultural colonisation, which in most cases replaces native culture. Throughout history, whenever an empire attained great power and influence in the known world at the time, it almost always ended up imprinting its culture on the rest of the civilisations it came into contact with (to a greater or lesser extent).

That sort of thing makes sweeping assertions on any component of culture (not only gender) a problematic thing.

 

[Nickolai77]

gender roles are broadly similar in all human societies.

This is factually incorrect, unless you are stretching the definition of "broad" to encompass cultures with almost opposing views on gender. A lot of cultures have similar gender roles purely due to cultural colonisation, which in most cases replaces native culture. Throughout history, whenever an empire attained great power and influence in the known world at the time, it almost always ended up imprinting its culture on the rest of the civilisations it came into contact with (to a greater or lesser extent).

That sort of thing makes sweeping assertions on any component of culture (not only gender) a problematic thing.

Broad in the sense that most cultures have similar gender roles- For instance in practically all societies it is the men who fight and the women who keep the home and raise the kids. That's the same in feudal Japan, Meso-America and medieval Europe- three societies which evolved in complete isolation of each other until the early modern era. Of course gender roles differ from society to society, but only mildly. For instance, in Celtic societies women sometimes played a spiritual/support role in battle- shouting encouragement to their husbands, cursing the enemy that sort of thing, whereas of course the Romans wouldn't let a woman anywhere near a battlefield. The point is there are differences, but the differences tend to be rather mild.

Then there are of course a few remote examples were differences range more wildly. For instance there's some evidence to suggest that Scythian women actively fought in battle- which led the Greek myth of Amazonians. However, such anomalies are few and far between, which is why i feel im justified in saying that gender norms across all human societies are broadly similar.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I'm quite familiar with his stuff, very proud to see him educating people on the complexities of gender.

Unfortunately, you said the G word, so this thread is likely to explode into arguments.

You're probably right, of course, but if the TED talk ends up making at least one person go "huh, that guy has a point", then I will consider my mission here accomplished.

but what if you get one person to go the other way?

like "I was fine with this shit before, but now? Now I'm actively going to campaign against it."