Sandbox And Themepark MMORPGs

Recommended Videos

Wonderland

New member
Oct 10, 2011
171
0
0
I prefer Sandbox MMORPGs to Themepark MMORPGs because I feel like I have my own alcomplishments and freedom. I do not feel like I am one in a million who are saving the same town from the same band of rats (not to say that Sandboxes don't have this sort of thing, but...) Unfortunately, I don't know of any good sandboxes anymore besides EVE. I used to love SWG. I guess see this topic as a Sandbox MMO and Themepark MMO discussion. Thoughts?
 

Jazoni89

New member
Dec 24, 2008
3,059
0
0
Theme Park MMO's huh?


You mean simulation games right, like Theme hospital, Simcity, and Rollercoaster tycoon, that sort of thing?
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
Wonderland said:
I prefer Sandbox MMORPGs to Themepark MMORPGs because I feel like I have my own alcomplishments and freedom. I do not feel like I am one in a million who are saving the same town from the same band of rats (not to say that Sandboxes don't have this sort of thing, but...) Unfortunately, I don't know of any good sandboxes anymore besides EVE. I used to love SWG. I guess see this topic as a Sandbox MMO and Themepark MMO discussion. Thoughts?
Well, I think the terms are mis-used because Theme Parks referred to a very specific type of gameplay within the general MMO structure that isn't really an issue right now.

That said, I myself tend to prefer sandbox games, but as the gaming industry is increasingly interested in catering to casual gamers, your seeing far less sandbox development because all that freedom and lack of guidance is intimidating to a lot of casual players. Rather than taking the time to learn, and actually enjoying the missteps, casuals will in many cases wind up paralyzed with indesician and eventually move to another game if there is a decent chance of them going out to explore and say winding up in an area vastly too tough for them.

I myself tend to miss SWG, and kind of wish someone would consider making more games like that or UO but with newer technology behind it. Truthfully, while it was badly implemented, I think SWG's NGE showed the potential for blending sandbox gaming with the linear "quest path" approach. I also think SWG managed to create a community through their entire system with entertainers and buffs in a way that no other game has yet been able to do.

Right now the big "hope" for the return of Sandbox MMOs is simply that the wave of casuals we have now will gradually grow up and demand more, and form a group too big to ignore.

I'll also be blunt in saying that the sandbox approach doesn't work well with the "cash shop" mode of business the gaming industry has begun to prefer. In something like SWG a lot of what drove it was the fact that just about everything was player manufactured. If you start putting the kinds of goods people will buy into the cash shop, it undermines the whole point of a true sandbox where just about everything is craftable or obtainable. This is incidently why I think SoE pointed out they couldn't go FTP with SWG, because the game was designed in a way where that approach wouldn't be viable, and would wind up undermining the entire point of the game.
 

Wonderland

New member
Oct 10, 2011
171
0
0
Jazoni89 said:
Theme Park MMO's huh?


You mean simulation games right, like Theme hospital, Simcity, and Rollercoaster tycoon, that sort of thing?
No, I mean themepark as in, WoW. Like, where there is tons of quests and you just choose one and do it, I guess. I can't explain it well.

Therumancer said:
Wonderland said:
I prefer Sandbox MMORPGs to Themepark MMORPGs because I feel like I have my own alcomplishments and freedom. I do not feel like I am one in a million who are saving the same town from the same band of rats (not to say that Sandboxes don't have this sort of thing, but...) Unfortunately, I don't know of any good sandboxes anymore besides EVE. I used to love SWG. I guess see this topic as a Sandbox MMO and Themepark MMO discussion. Thoughts?
Well, I think the terms are mis-used because Theme Parks referred to a very specific type of gameplay within the general MMO structure that isn't really an issue right now.

That said, I myself tend to prefer sandbox games, but as the gaming industry is increasingly interested in catering to casual gamers, your seeing far less sandbox development because all that freedom and lack of guidance is intimidating to a lot of casual players. Rather than taking the time to learn, and actually enjoying the missteps, casuals will in many cases wind up paralyzed with indesician and eventually move to another game if there is a decent chance of them going out to explore and say winding up in an area vastly too tough for them.

I myself tend to miss SWG, and kind of wish someone would consider making more games like that or UO but with newer technology behind it. Truthfully, while it was badly implemented, I think SWG's NGE showed the potential for blending sandbox gaming with the linear "quest path" approach. I also think SWG managed to create a community through their entire system with entertainers and buffs in a way that no other game has yet been able to do.

Right now the big "hope" for the return of Sandbox MMOs is simply that the wave of casuals we have now will gradually grow up and demand more, and form a group too big to ignore.

I'll also be blunt in saying that the sandbox approach doesn't work well with the "cash shop" mode of business the gaming industry has begun to prefer. In something like SWG a lot of what drove it was the fact that just about everything was player manufactured. If you start putting the kinds of goods people will buy into the cash shop, it undermines the whole point of a true sandbox where just about everything is craftable or obtainable. This is incidently why I think SoE pointed out they couldn't go FTP with SWG, because the game was designed in a way where that approach wouldn't be viable, and would wind up undermining the entire point of the game.
I would love to see a new UO. By that post, I agree with you, 100%.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
Jazoni89 said:
Theme Park MMO's huh?


You mean simulation games right, like Theme hospital, Simcity, and Rollercoaster tycoon, that sort of thing?
Err, well it's a term describing MMOs with a very linear progression of quests that pretty much everyone winds up doing in a specific order. Basically you see the guy to kill 10 rats, then move on to the guy to kill 10 wolves, then to the guy to kill the big named wolf, etc... there might be some variations in the order you do things but you do everything in one hub and then move on to the next.

The term got started as a result of games being overpopulated after the launch of new content where you might have people literally waiting in line to do quests as a limited rate of monster spawn, or a boss that takes 3 minutes to pop, leads to people all waiting around to attack it in hopes of getting a tap, or even patiently waiting for their shot to kill the monsters while other people do it, like waiting in line at disney world.

The term "Theme Park MMO" really started to take off in common usage when Blizzard released "Burning Crusade" where they almost literally had rides characters would get on. Things like a trampoline you'd bounce off of to get an egg out of a tree, or daily quests where you would hop on a flying mount which you wouldn't control that would do a set circle while you dropped bombs on stuff below (and received gold when you landed). Daily quests on that old Shattered Sun island (the name eludes me) were almost literally a theme park on a lot of levels.

This is in comparison to other games where such things might exist to an extent, but a big part of the focus is in doing and finding things on your own. For example in SWG or old school UO there was a big focus on crafting, instead of primarily being oriented on doing quests you would head out to survey, harvest wood, fish, or whatever to gatther resources to make things and stuff would largely happen (monsters, etc...) while working towards that goal. For example a lot of the exploration in both games was based around trying to find sources of specific resources. There is still questing, and other things, but you have a much more open world and nothing really prevents you from say deciding you want to go to a specific place, the way the monsters were set up you wouldn't immediatly get pwned by say not going through the areas in a specific order.

To put things into perspective in SWG I had my quests to work on, collecting achievements to unlock things, my Jedi trials (when I played Jedi), the legacy quests, piloting, etc... but a lot of it was me setting my own goals for what I wanted to work on. There really wasn't an enforced directive saying "thou shalt do this, then this, then the other thing in this prescribed order, or thou shalt suffer massive death penelties and repair bills until you follow the prescribed fashion".


I'm probably not articulating this well, it's difficult to describe. If you've say played WoW, or ToR and a game like SWG, UO, or EVE you can pick up on the differance pretty easily. It's difficult to convey to someone without a frame of referance because the easiest way to explain it is to say "like this" and point to specific examples, at least for me, but that's probably a failing on my part.
 

skywolfblue

New member
Jul 17, 2011
1,514
0
0
So... "Sandbox" means basically throwing everyone in a world and saying "have at each other" with no quests (a-la EVE), and "Theme Park" means structured quests and raiding?

I'd take Theme Park then. I love quests. Much as I respect EVE, it's not really my taste, at all.

"Kill " never had the same interest to me as "Kill Arthas".
 

Savagezion

New member
Mar 28, 2010
2,455
0
0
skywolfblue said:
So... "Sandbox" means basically throwing everyone in a world and saying "have at each other" with no quests (a-la EVE), and "Theme Park" means structured quests and raiding?

I'd take Theme Park then. I love quests. Much as I respect EVE, it's not really my taste, at all.

"Kill " never had the same interest to me as "Kill Arthas".
You can still have quests in a sandbox style game, but it usually isn't a constant link. In games like WoW, completing a quest is rewarded by being handed another one. In sandbox, a quest is usually just a quest. Most sandbox games have many quests. They just don't have quest chains leading you through the content of the game in a roughly predefined order. Again, quest chains can be present but they aren't used to lead you through the content.

It's all in the structure of the game really. There are benefits to both but theme park style play is much easier to profiteer due to a variety of reasons. Neither offer something the other one doesn't, but both offer something unique to the MMO experience in comparison to one another. For instance, Theme Park style play offers a better chance at a solid narrative due to linear progression. However, Sandbox usually offers heavier player influence on the game world. Those aren't the only places they differ but is probably the largest difference. As I said though, neither has something the other doesn't. It mostly has to do with what parts of the game they emphasize.
 

j3w3l

New member
Dec 9, 2011
2
0
0
Perpetuum is a mech sandbox which is very similar to eve
Darkfall for pvp based one
Xyson for actual world crafting (being able to shape the terrain)

Archeage (hopefully) in the future. although it seems like it will be more of a hybrid of themepark and sandbox
 

Don Savik

New member
Aug 27, 2011
915
0
0
My brother and his friends play EVE. I bought it at 5 bucks to get in on the action to prepare myself for Dust 514. Not my cup of tea. Its an amazing game, but the learning cliff required just wasn't fun to me, and I am not a huge fan of mmo pvp especially when you DON'T GET SHIPS BACK in that game after they go boom.

Yea, a sandbox setting would seem nice, but with griefers nowadays, its just better to play something with a bunch of friends.

And sometimes structure is nice. In fact, I got bored of playing Minecraft because of that reason.
 

ACman

New member
Apr 21, 2011
629
0
0
Therumancer said:
Gay men should be prohibited from going places around children as a matter of policy, and probably given twice the penelties as normal for violations or if they are caught trying to actually go after children. By a lack of active tracking I mean I don't think an entire neighborhood needs to be informed that so and so is gay, but I do think schools should be basically informed, and it should be attached to IDs so if say some gay guy comes into a casino and gives his ID to be allowed to gamble casino security is aware, and can also inform the guy where to stay away from (arcades, day care, etc..) to prevent accidental tresspass and similar things.

Overall while many people would object out of hand, this is an attitude that has come from long experience, and I've gone through periods where I've been more or less extreme. This seems like a pretty middle ground compromise as it presents few limitations. To be honest as a straight guy I don't hang around schools, playgrounds, arcades, etc... unless I have a good reason (like being paid security) so really being told you can't go there isn't something that is going to hamper most people unless they are up to something to begin with. It's very much one of the cases where I actually think the maxim "only the guilty should be concerned" kind of applies. Some would talk about railing against any kind of limitation, but at the same time I'd ask WTF would an adult man with allegedly no interest in kids fight for the right to go hang around a playground or children's arcade? I mean seriously.

... and trust me, from experience, if you see some solitary guy hanging out in an arcade watching the kids there is very rarely a good reason for it. Sadly you can't do anything out of hand, but trust me, after about 10 minutes you can almost guarantee your going to have to at least step in and make your prescence known at some point (at which point the guy will almost universally go scurrying like a cockroach).

Part of it is what they called "colored glasses" when I took Criminal Justice. Basically people remain optimistic and liberal because they never really see the world properly the way how someone who does law enforcement, "high end" security work, or receives the proper training does. See, you take the right training, watch people through cameras when they don't think they are being observed, and respond to incident after incident and write (or read) report after report, you see things as they actually are, and can recognize behaviors you once wouldn't have been alarmed by for what they are.

Criminals an predators survive because they seem normal, your child molester, shoplifter, pickpocket, stairwell rapist, mugger, or whatever doesn't look like some dude from America's most wanted. He looks like your ordinary person, and can talk a good game about being harmless. Most homosexual predators for example are EXACTLY the guy who looks like the poster child for "we're unfairly maligned, and don't attack children" they don't go walking around covered in tattoos and looking like prison rapist nightmares, or dirty old men. Just like a shoplifter might be an old lady who looks like (and probably is) someone's grandmother, especially if it's part of an organized ring because people tend to be a lot more laid back with the elderly not to mention all the special laws about treating them with kid gloves and so on. You watch this crap 20 million times on a camera and it burns in.

While I'm rambling in a long post, I might as well explain how this kind of thing works as well. See, little boys are braver than girls and have immortal action and adventure fantasies in their head, they are warned, and take warnings less seriously than girls who tend to be a bit more aware of people being after them probably because people teach them more seriously. Your typical gay pedo is going to be some normal looking guy in his 20s or 30s, maybe even good looking, who hangs around an arcade or similar place, to see who has been left without parents or a sibling, and hasn't fallen in with another pack of kids. Or more indidiously for those carrying books, because kids have homework and a lot of your casino parents will have the kids their kids bring the homework to the casino. Basically the pedo will probably play a few video games, offer the kid some extra quarters or something, and then when the kid runs out offer to help him with his homework. The kid probably wants to go somewhere quiet to concentrate with a flat surface so it's pretty easy to gert the kid to enter a stairwell, where the cameras tend to be aimed at the landings. The pedo gets the kid into the stairwell and then goes to do homework with him in the middle of the landing where they can sit, or the kid can *ahem* turn around and use the steps as a flat surface. In that position it's where the pedo can do his thing and unless a security officer comes by on a patrol, at the right moment your going to find the traumatized lad crying with the guy long gone. Even if you find him, because it happened between landings there won't be a great video record since the act itself took place between landings. This is assuming the guy didn't mess with the cameras and security wasn't too busy to notice (given that there are tons of them). Now granted this rarely goes down, because well. there are procedures that make it harder to get away with, but really you'd be shocked how many normal looking dudes have tried to carry out that basic plan.
This man is a homophobe.

For more check from http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.352313-Jimquisition-Mass-Effect-3-A-Gay-Erotic-Love-Story?page=12