Sandy Hook - the Conspiracy (with video)

[BakedSardine]

If you have the time to watch this video, please do and let me know what you think of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1yfJDCMU64

I would say to not focus on some of the wackier shit that this lady says (the Agenda 21 and 1st - 5th Dimensions stuff) but to focus more on the details like the analysis of the photographs, the people milling around the fire house, the age of the Sandy Hook parents, etc.

In general, I am not a conspiracy theorist, but the fact that this whole scenario played out and we never even got a picture of the outside of the school where Lanza allegedly shot his way in has always seemed fishy to me. Couple that with the fact that with Columbine we had video of Klebold walking around the school in his trench coat, etc and something just seems off.

Also consider they completely razed the school and the construction workers were forced to sign an NDA, which was very odd.

I'm probably most suspicious of Robbie Parker - something doesn't square with me about that guy.

 

[senordesol]

A brief summary for those who have not the time to watch a 90min video wouldn't go amiss.

Here's the thing about conspiracy...conjectures (I can bring myself to call them theories). Unless you are an expert in the field with knowledge on the ground of what was happening (and most importantly: why) when it was happening; your thoughts on the matter are really as good as the next guy's (as in: little to no value at all).

Oddities and anomalies in a situation of panic and chaos are par for the course; not damning evidence.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Oddities and anomalies in a situation of panic and chaos are par for the course; not damning evidence.

This is a really important thing to understand, I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm guessing a lot of the evidence is "Such a person acted this way, we find this unsuitable behaviour"

In stressful situations people break down and react in the weirdest ways. The first thing to fly out the window is logic and reason. I watched the loose change videos on the Twin Towers and a lot of their evidence was this "Person did action which we find illogical / coincidence happened which seemed unlikely" the majority of the other evidence was cherry picked (Pictures of lack of aeroplane bits outside Pentagon - they just selected the photos that had the least debris and mass uploaded and reprinted them until it's pretty impossible now to find the original photos that showed plane debris even in a lengthly Google search), or just plain falsified (there was an interview with an underground worker at the Twin Towers they had personally taken, cut, re-edited and looped to fit their description of multiple explosions and bombs etc.)

I always come to these videos with great scepticism, not to say that I think the American government are trustworthy (The NSA demonstrates they aren't) but the NSA is a great example of how incompetent they are in their scheming - These aren't the guys running the world, they're the wannabies that think they do, but watched too much Sci-fi and act out their fantasies like moronic pilchards until they get embarrassingly caught red handed. [http://americablog.com/2013/09/nsa-outrage-star-trek-bridge.html]
If there ever was a conspiracy on this scale we would hear about it, governments are too incompetent not to leak this crap, people are too conscience driven to be able to extend it past a dozen people without someone whistleblowing.

I notice the person who created the documentary also has one on chemtrails, and according to the comments seems to be championing every conspiracies this side of ancient aliens guy. I would be very careful in double checking the sources of anything this video claimed, and maybe getting several dozen second opinions.

 

[BakedSardine]

I notice the person who created the documentary also has one on chemtrails, and according to the comments seems to be championing every conspiracies this side of ancient aliens guy. I would be very careful in double checking the sources of anything this video claimed, and maybe getting several dozen second opinions.

I don't buy the Ancient Aliens stuff, but on chemtrails there is actual government documentation on plans for exploring weather modification. The below is from 1966.

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/documents/19680002906_1968002906.pdf

 

[BakedSardine]

Also consider they completely razed the school and the construction workers were forced to sign an NDA, which was very odd.

Is this proven? Because that's just a smoking gun. How can anyone in his right mind believe it's not a hoax when this is true?

Yes:

http://news.yahoo.com/confidentiality-required-sandy-hook-school-demolition-crews-183504644.html

BOSTON (Reuters) - Workers tearing down Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, site of one of Americas worst school shootings, have been required by the town to sign confidentiality agreements barring them from discussing or photographing the site.

The move is aimed at protecting families of the victims from further airing of details of the incident i

 

[senordesol]

Alright so I started watching this and then I just had to stop. It was just too stupid.

In situations like this, it is a mistake to rely on the news as a source because the news NEVER GETS IT RIGHT the first time. There's just too much conflicting information.

As for tearing down the school...why exactly is this considered odd? It seems to be something the residents wanted (and it's a fairly old school, as I understand it, at that).

 

[Hero in a half shell]

I notice the person who created the documentary also has one on chemtrails, and according to the comments seems to be championing every conspiracies this side of ancient aliens guy. I would be very careful in double checking the sources of anything this video claimed, and maybe getting several dozen second opinions.

I don't buy the Ancient Aliens stuff, but on chemtrails there is actual government documentation on plans for exploring weather modification. The below is from 1966.

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/documents/19680002906_1968002906.pdf

Hey, that's a really cool link, and a really nice read, thanks for that.

4 things I noticed about it are that:

1. It focuses totally on manipulation of the humidity (seeding clouds to increase rainfall for crops and forest fires, dispersing fog at airports, storm dispersal - [part of their predictions for technology in the future]) with no mention of military application or other types of manipulation. This is more an agricultural document than anything. All they are trying to do is to increase or decrease the chances of rain - with up to a 10% rate of success!

2. All the bodies partaking in the research are civilian - Forestry service, NASA, and universities, so keeping secrets would be next to impossible, in fact the document stresses that co operation and transparency (and cost effectiveness) between these organisations should be promoted several times.

3. There is a huge leap between manipulating the rain and storms, and sticking chemicals in jet fuel / secret compartments in commercial liners to make the population less aggressive/infertile/dumberer. This is just evidence that the government helped create the widely known about 'cloud seeding' practice.
I see no reason why the information contained in this document would lead me to believe the US Government are involved in some sort of international Governmental chemical spreading conspiracy (and of course every pilot, aeronautical engineer, jet plane manufacturer/jet fuel manufacturer etc. would have to be in on it too)

4. This is the most Epic thing I have ever read in a government document:

SEVERE STORM MODIFICATION
The need for finding a way to moderate the intensity of the most violent forms of nature is obvious. The most ambitious attack on this problem in which WD is involved is the joint DOD-DOC program for experiments on hurricane modification
known as Project STORMFURY.

(Appendix III page 11)

They called it project STORMFURY. In all capitals.

I don't care if they are trying to kill me, these guys are awesome.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

They called it project STORMFURY. In all capitals.

I don't care if they are trying to kill me, these guys are awesome.

It makes them sound like Bond villains, I love it.

OT: I'm a big believer in <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor>Hanlon's Razor, especially when attributed to the government. Most of the shit like tearing down the school sounds like people bending over backwards to please the victims for political gain.

A lot of conspiracy theorists are completely full of shit though. Trying to dumb down the populace when they're simultaneously spending billions of dollars on schooling because the Asians are kicking their asses in every academic activity. What a crock.

 

[EternallyBored]

I notice the person who created the documentary also has one on chemtrails, and according to the comments seems to be championing every conspiracies this side of ancient aliens guy. I would be very careful in double checking the sources of anything this video claimed, and maybe getting several dozen second opinions.

I don't buy the Ancient Aliens stuff, but on chemtrails there is actual government documentation on plans for exploring weather modification. The below is from 1966.

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/documents/19680002906_1968002906.pdf

From what I know about the chemtrails conspiracy, it doesn't really have anything to do with weather modification. The conspiracy is that the contrails coming off of commercial airliners is actually some sort of poison or mind control substance meant to control the populace or make them more compliant. The most common comparison to to state that contrails look like what comes out of cropduster planes when they spray farms, so they extrapolate that out into believing that the government is spraying us with something.

Also consider they completely razed the school and the construction workers were forced to sign an NDA, which was very odd.

Is this proven? Because that's just a smoking gun. How can anyone in his right mind believe it's not a hoax when this is true?

Because this sort of thing actually happens a lot, unless you believe a good chunk of major accidents and disasters are actually conspiracies, then this isn't a smoking anything. I've known construction companies and demolition companies that have to sign this kind of shit all the time. For situations like this, the line of thought is that you are trying to prevent the people working on site from trying to stir up more media attention, or stealing onsite items to sell to people who want a piece of something where a national event or disaster took place. I had a friend who was involved in the 9/11 pentagon cleanup and tried to take a chunk of aluminum from the plane that hit, so yeah there's apparently a market for this kind of crap.

As for demolishing the building, it's a bit extreme, but given the level of coverage and the stigma attached, not to mention the relative smallness of the building itself, they've done stuff like this in the past. With extremely tragic events, you sometimes get an effect where no one wants to treat the site the same anymore, either people avoid it out of fear or no longer feeling safe there, or you've got ghoulish people flocking to the site to gawk and take pictures, which with a school like this is a very bad thing, so they cut their losses and decided to start over to prevent people from turning the place into an empty memorial or a macabre tourist attraction.

 

[idarkphoenixi]

I know it's fun to all get together, look at a situation and say "well this is kind of fishy...This doesn't make perfect sense, Why did this sequence of events happen in this particular order ect..."

But the idea that Sandy Hook was any kind of planned Government conspiracy is just painfully ridiculous and also incredibly offensive to everyone affected. Seriously, when people started analysing the statements parents made and accused them of being involved in the murder of their own children because, and I quote: "They didn't look sad enough", it made me almost sick from disgust. Something I have NEVER done in my entire life.

If there is one thing we have learned of the Government (any Government) is that they are fucking incompetents. A huge Government-wide conspiracy involving The mass murder of CHILDREN is not something you can just "cover-up" with a few NDA's.

If this were true, it would not only involve the entire school faculty but also all of the parents who "faked" their grieving, all of the first responders, the workers who helped destroy the building, the masses of Government employee's and among others, the entire of the world media also helped to "cover it up".
By the way, Fox News/Alex Jones doing a segment involving nothing but conjecture and unverified witnesses does not count as trying to uncover the "truth". Not one of the presumably hundreds of people involved in this shooting came forward with solid evidence? And if they tried to, that means the entirety of all media refused to publish it.

Conspiracies can be fun, but please remember that real people were affected by this, parents have lost their baby boys/girls. Try to consider how they would feel to have a bunch of anonymous internet voices tell them it was all an intricately planned event that they presumably were involved in .

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

The US Government is either too inept at doing anything on a grand scale to fool the population into believing these "lies" or they're so good at it that they seem inept enough that we believe the lies... I don't think there's a grand plan, just a bunch of power hungry morons who haven't really a clue of the forces they mess with (the lives of US citizens, the future of the economic state, healthcare). They're so convinced of their own bullshit that when their grand plans actually fail, they just tell the public "you're too stupid to understand how this works". Or call them "racist". And it goes both ways, both parties are out of date and out of touch with the people they rule over. They act like they're royal blood and should never be questioned at what they do when its the job of the people to call them on their bullshit. Thats what this country is founded on, being able to say to our leaders "Hey what the fuck are you doing?!?!?" without feeling like we'd be killed or spirited off into the night vanishing without a trace...
We hire these folks to do a job, and we should remember we don't have to rehire them if they fuck it up.
They aren't smart enough to pull off these conspiracies, nor could they do it without someone blabbing about it. The only way conspiracies work is if you have a very minute group of people that work on them, and they have to be absolutely trustworthy, and ruthless. But to pull of a grand scheme like 9/11 truther's blab on about, or the failure of the Levee's during Katrina... or this Sandy Hook shit, you'd have to have way too many people in on it. It just won't work... I don't see it.
Maybe... MAYBE the JFK assassination, but thats so convoluted by pop-culture we'd never know the truth and just have to accept the Oswald truth as gospel because its the only one we really have evidence to back up...

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

Oddities and anomalies in a situation of panic and chaos are par for the course; not damning evidence.

This is a really important thing to understand, I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm guessing a lot of the evidence is "Such a person acted this way, we find this unsuitable behaviour"

In stressful situations people break down and react in the weirdest ways. The first thing to fly out the window is logic and reason. I watched the loose change videos on the Twin Towers and a lot of their evidence was this "Person did action which we find illogical / coincidence happened which seemed unlikely" the majority of the other evidence was cherry picked (Pictures of lack of aeroplane bits outside Pentagon - they just selected the photos that had the least debris and mass uploaded and reprinted them until it's pretty impossible now to find the original photos that showed plane debris even in a lengthly Google search), or just plain falsified (there was an interview with an underground worker at the Twin Towers they had personally taken, cut, re-edited and looped to fit their description of multiple explosions and bombs etc.)

I always come to these videos with great scepticism, not to say that I think the American government are trustworthy (The NSA demonstrates they aren't) but the NSA is a great example of how incompetent they are in their scheming - These aren't the guys running the world, they're the wannabies that think they do, but watched too much Sci-fi and act out their fantasies like moronic pilchards until they get embarrassingly caught red handed. [http://americablog.com/2013/09/nsa-outrage-star-trek-bridge.html]
If there ever was a conspiracy on this scale we would hear about it, governments are too incompetent not to leak this crap, people are too conscience driven to be able to extend it past a dozen people without someone whistleblowing.

I notice the person who created the documentary also has one on chemtrails, and according to the comments seems to be championing every conspiracies this side of ancient aliens guy. I would be very careful in double checking the sources of anything this video claimed, and maybe getting several dozen second opinions.

^^ This.

Governments are far too fucking stupid to be able to hide actual schemes like that, those theories are far too often based on misinformation or a predisposition to just not trust anything ever released by any official source ever.

Like how people think that the HAARP facility is used to brainwash people when in actual fact they just do sonic-based research.

It's also kind of adorable when in those videos, they play the sounds of the reapers from Mass Effect/the aliens from War of The Worlds in the background.

 

[Barbas]

They called it project STORMFURY. In all capitals.

I don't care if they are trying to kill me, these guys are awesome.

It makes them sound like Bond villains, I love it.

You're thinking of The Avengers!

Spoiler

I don't understand the people who were arguing that the Sandy Hook shooting was some sort of plot by the US government to rile people up against guns and thus gradually disarm them. Hasn't Obama made it easier for people to get a hold of guns during his presidency, and isn't there a spike in people panic-buying weapons when a shooting like this occurs?

 

[Robot Number V]

Also consider they completely razed the school and the construction workers were forced to sign an NDA, which was very odd.

Is this proven? Because that's just a smoking gun. How can anyone in his right mind believe it's not a hoax when this is true?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but if you aren't then...I'm pretty sure you haven't thought this through. (If you are, then consider this post directed at the thread in general, rather then just you)

So what's the scenario here? The government comes to a bunch of construction workers and says "Hey guys, you know that horrifying and infamous mass shooting of children? Yeah, that was totally us. We did that. We, the United States Government, shot a bunch of kids. And we need you to help us cover it up. Obviously, since you are now in possession of information that could FUCKING TOPPLE us, we're gonna make sure you don't talk by HAVING YOU SIGN A GOD DAMN SHEET OF PAPER." And then what, the construction workers just look at each other and shrug, like "Oh well, I signed the paper, I guess my hands are tied!"

Now, I know what you're thinking, conspiracy buffs: "Obviously the government would keep them quiet by threatening their lives and/or their families!" And know what? You're right. Just one thing though...IF the goverment shot a bunch of kids and IF they needed some construction workers to help them cover it up, and IF they ensured the silence of said construction workers by threatening their lives.....Then what exactly would be the point of having them sign non-disclosure agreements?

 

[LetalisK]

Also consider they completely razed the school and the construction workers were forced to sign an NDA, which was very odd.

Is this proven? Because that's just a smoking gun. How can anyone in his right mind believe it's not a hoax when this is true?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but if you aren't then...I'm pretty sure you haven't thought this through. (If you are, then consider this post directed at the thread in general, rather then just you)

So what's the scenario here? The government comes to a bunch of construction workers and says "Hey guys, you know that horrifying and infamous mass shooting of children? Yeah, that was totally us. We did that. We, the United States Government, shot a bunch of kids. And we need you to help us cover it up. Obviously, since you are now in possession of information that could FUCKING TOPPLE us, we're gonna make sure you don't talk by HAVING YOU SIGN A GOD DAMN SHEET OF PAPER." And then what, the construction workers just look at each other and shrug, like "Oh well, I signed the paper, I guess my hands are tied!"

Now, I know what you're thinking, conspiracy buffs: "Obviously the government would keep them quiet by threatening their lives and/or their families!" And know what? You're right. Just one thing though...IF the goverment shot a bunch of kids and IF they needed some construction workers to help them cover it up, and IF they ensured the silence of said construction workers by threatening their lives.....Then what exactly would be the point of having them sign non-disclosure agreements?

Even tyrannical all-powerful, all-knowing governments have to follow the bureaucracy. Not even God is beyond bureaucracy.

 

[Something Amyss]

So is this going to be an annual thing now? We dredge up predatory conspiracy theorists and cherry-pick the good parts (Because aliens are too weird?) of their arguments as they have cherry-picked the evidence?

This conspiracy theory has disgusted me from day one. It's absurd, and when you have guys talking about chemtrails and aliens it gets moreso. People shape these things to fit their worldview and if you are looking for things that don't make sense, you will find them no matter how much of it you have to engineer. How is this not just exploiting tragedy?

Is this proven? Because that's just a smoking gun. How can anyone in his right mind believe it's not a hoax when this is true?

It's true (at least, it's been reported), it's not odd, it's not a smoking gun.

Confidentiality in handling crime scenes is so routine there are boilerplate legal documents readily available.

How can any reasonable person jump from "NDA" to "conspiracy" with no intermediate steps? How can people not stop to think about it, look at non-disclosure agreements, and think about why this might be common before they assume that this means a small town in CT was instigating a massive coverup?

That's what conspiracy theorists hope for. They hope you will jump to immediate conclusions without checking out their carefully framed "evidence." An NDA should not have been news in relation to a crime.

Oh, and:

Couple that with the fact that with Columbine we had video of Klebold walking around the school in his trench coat, etc and something just seems off.

Columbine is an ostensibly larger school that serves a larger area. A significantly larger area. The population density of the area around Columbine is tens of times greater than that of Newtown, where Sandy Hook is.

Do you really find it surprising that larger schools (and nto to mention, high schools vs elementary schools) would have more features like cameras? Because I graduated a year before Columbine, and the schools in my area only had cameras if they were larger. This doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Well, the lack of pictures doesn't seem unreasonable. The lack of security kind of does. But that's not a conspiracy. that's just a lack of funding thanks to the American tax payer.

I don't buy the Ancient Aliens stuff, but on chemtrails there is actual government documentation on plans for exploring weather modification. The below is from 1966

Which neither leads to chemtrails (even assuming success) nor has much to do with the claims of the chemtrail CT.

 

[Something Amyss]

So what's the scenario here? The government comes to a bunch of construction workers and says "Hey guys, you know that horrifying and infamous mass shooting of children? Yeah, that was totally us. We did that. We, the United States Government, shot a bunch of kids. And we need you to help us cover it up. Obviously, since you are now in possession of information that could FUCKING TOPPLE us, we're gonna make sure you don't talk by HAVING YOU SIGN A GOD DAMN SHEET OF PAPER." And then what, the construction workers just look at each other and shrug, like "Oh well, I signed the paper, I guess my hands are tied!"

I just want to point out it was the government of Newtown (where Sandy Hook is located) and not the feds who opted for this.

Makes it seem even more absurd, doesn't it?

 

[Happiness Assassin]

I'm sorry, but the bullshit about dimensions was just so stupid I couldn't take it. This is one of the worst presented pieces of drivel that I have ever seen and I can't believe anyone is discussing this in a serious manner.

 

[BakedSardine]

I'm sorry, but the bullshit about dimensions was just so stupid I couldn't take it. This is one of the worst presented pieces of drivel that I have ever seen and I can't believe anyone is discussing this in a serious manner.

I completely agree on the dimensions BS. The things that kind of made me say "huh" were the brief analysis of the photographs, the video of the circling at the fire station and the fact that we have not seen a single picture of the school.

Couple that with the fact that the 911 calls were not released until the past week and they were in fact innocuous. The reasoning behind not releasing them were that it would be too painful for the families when, in fact, we have heard numerous 911 calls from 9/11 - widely regarded as the biggest attack on the US. Why would the 9/11 calls be fully released and the Sandy Hook 911 calls sequestered when what was released was basically nothing.