Sandy Hook - the Conspiracy (with video)

[Hoplon]

that black matter exists

I will assume you mean Dark Matter, and no, there is no direct evidence of Dark Matter, only inferred from other effects. That's why it's called Dark Matter. It's short hand for "no fucking idea what this is"

 

[Thaluikhain]

that black matter exists

I will assume you mean Dark Matter, and no, there is no direct evidence of Dark Matter, only inferred from other effects. That's why it's called Dark Matter. It's short hand for "no fucking idea what this is"

Depends what you mean, the phrase is used of all sorts of things, from "stuff we can't see" to "really, really weird stuff we can't see which is unlike anything that we can".

 

[Strazdas]

No, I think people are saying that the government would have to be comprised of a race of super brain beings from beyond the galaxy, if they would want to cover up such heinous acts performed in their own backyard. And they're not. They're just a bunch of humans like you and me.

Terrible acts performed in foreign countries are a different matter. They shouldn't be, but they are. They generally fall under the umbrella of 'casualties of war'. People tend to care less about bad things happening in foreign countries, even if their own government is involved. And if you remember, there was quite a bit of outcry over those American soldiers gunning down those civilians (if indeed you are refering to that leaked video). And Abu Ghraib was another colossal fuck-up that the government wasn't able to cover up so well, and the backlash was pretty substantial.

Well, i guess then the govement is comprised of race of super brain beings from beyond the galaxy, because there is precedent. Also, if they are a bunch of humans like you and me, and we can come up with a way to do it, why cant they?
What exactly was the backlash? some people moaned on national TV? Meanwhile, the next soldier went on killing civilians.
I agree that it is easier to ignore things happening in different countries, but its not like ability to ignore it stops when we are talking about our own country.

that black matter exists

I will assume you mean Dark Matter, and no, there is no direct evidence of Dark Matter, only inferred from other effects. That's why it's called Dark Matter. It's short hand for "no fucking idea what this is"

You are right that i was rather unspecific here. I believe the technical term now is antimatter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

 

[Thaluikhain]

There is a lot of things labeled conspiracy theories that were proven to be true, for example that earth is round, that black matter exists, that we are made of atoms, that earth is millions of years old, ect. Its just that we grew up thinking most of those things as facts and not conspiracy theories anymore, since they were proven right, and you hear most about the craziest ones.

Er, those used to be hypotheses, not conspiracy theories. Not really the same thing.

 

[Strazdas]

There is a lot of things labeled conspiracy theories that were proven to be true, for example that earth is round, that black matter exists, that we are made of atoms, that earth is millions of years old, ect. Its just that we grew up thinking most of those things as facts and not conspiracy theories anymore, since they were proven right, and you hear most about the craziest ones.

Er, those used to be hypotheses, not conspiracy theories. Not really the same thing.

I think you already said what i wanted to respond with.
"Used to be".
Anything that goes agasint general idea now is called a conspiracy theory.
Also in the past they were also called works of the devil. lunacies. witchcraft. you get the picture.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Anything that goes agasint general idea now is called a conspiracy theory.

Er, not really, there has to be an outlandish and unlikely conspiracy

Also in the past they were also called works of the devil. lunacies. witchcraft. you get the picture.

Only they weren't. There were people that argued against them, sure, but that's not the same thing at all.

(I'll grant that certain religious groups would attack the age of the world, but not society as a whole, same with evolution)

 

[Danial]

So let me get his straight, a shadow government that can control the weather, kill of its own presidents, control people from the weather, Kill thousands of people by demolishing two of the biggest buildings in the world in plain sight of everyone AND make it so everyone involved in this (an amount that would be in the thousands)never speaks a word of it, hides the fact that the royal family is made up of trans-dimensional lizard people and can kill a school full of school children Etc etc etc yet they can't seem to kill off Jesse Ventura or remove a few Youtube bids basically showing off great details about their apparently top secret plans.

Sigh.

Look wanna know why people have NDAs about Sandy Hill? Because hours after Paul Walker died i had the joy of having both images of his still burning car and his mangled bloody face shoved down my eyes by people "paying respects". People are idiots desperate for attention with all the tact of an atom bomb.

"Oh look At this bloody stain i found in Sandy Hill, i bet this was a kid :< #sad #resinpeace #deadchildrensblood"

 

[Thaluikhain]

So let me get his straight, a shadow government that can control the weather, kill of its own presidents, control people from the weather, Kill thousands of people by demolishing two of the biggest buildings in the world in plain sight of everyone AND make it so everyone involved in this (an amount that would be in the thousands)never speaks a word of it, hides the fact that the royal family is made up of trans-dimensional lizard people and can kill a school full of school children Etc etc etc yet they can't seem to kill off Jesse Ventura or remove a few Youtube bids basically showing off great details about their apparently top secret plans.

Sigh.

Look wanna know why people have NDAs about Sandy Hill? Because hours after Paul Walker died i had the joy of having both images of his still burning car and his mangled bloody face shoved down my eyes by people "paying respects". People are idiots desperate for attention with all the tact of an atom bomb.

"Oh look At this bloody stain i found in Sandy Hill, i bet this was a kid :< #sad #resinpeace #deadchildrensblood"

Personally, I like the one about how, when Obama was born, people knew that he would grow up to be the first US president, so they fudged his birth certificate.

And, despite being able to predict stuff like that that far in advance, they aren't the most qualified people to be running the US.

 

[Danial]

Personally, I like the one about how, when Obama was born, people knew that he would grow up to be the first US president, so they fudged his birth certificate.

And, despite being able to predict stuff like that that far in advance, they aren't the most qualified people to be running the US.

Yeah for a secret Muslim insurgent he sure does like blowing up Muslims with drones.

Add to that when a REAL conspiracy comes out (see Edward Snowden and the NSA) the government involved usually craps themselves and goes into panic mode. Shocking with all of these really deep leaks that we've been having basically showing off the stuff the governments are doing that IS scary, No info about these super true 100% real conspiracy theory's ever seems to come out.

Unless these are FAKE IN ORDER TO COVER UP THE REAL TRUTH *smashes face into keyboard until the stupid comes out*

 

[Something Amyss]

Project Greek Island [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Greek_Island]?

So what you're saying is that a far more innocuous thing happened which didn't involve a large number of child deaths or national attention, therefore this less innocuous thing which did involve a large number of child deaths and national attention is plausible?

Sorry, but no. Just no.

There is a lot of things labeled conspiracy theories that were proven to be true, for example that earth is round, that black matter exists, that we are made of atoms, that earth is millions of years old, ect. Its just that we grew up thinking most of those things as facts and not conspiracy theories anymore, since they were proven right, and you hear most about the craziest ones.

A conspiracy theory involves a conspiracy. The existence of atoms, the age of the universe and the planet, and the shape of the Earth were not conspiracies or conspiracy theories. To the contrary, it was the demonstration that generally led to conspiracy theories....Specifically things like the flat earthers.

You don't seem to understand what a conspiracy theory is.

Anything that goes agasint general idea now is called a conspiracy theory.

No, no it's not. A conspiracy theory need not just go against the grain. Theories of FTL travel are not called conspiracy theories unless they state that the men from Uranus are preventing it. They're largely considered pipe dreams, but they're not conspiracy theories. Believe it or not, there is no scientific hive-mind out there deciding what is and isn't.

besides, why would they fake it? What do they gain out of it?

Supposedly, Obama orchestrated this so he could take away our guns. Which he hasn't done. So not only is he an evil man, but also poorly organised.

Look wanna know why people have NDAs about Sandy Hill? Because hours after Paul Walker died i had the joy of having both images of his still burning car and his mangled bloody face shoved down my eyes by people "paying respects". People are idiots desperate for attention with all the tact of an atom bomb.

Keep in mind NDAs don't appear to be all that uncommon in working a crime scene. Paul Walker's photos got out because it's hard to truly close off such a scene. You can find standard NDA forms online for cleaning and construction crews pertaining to a crime scene and they're all pretty much boilerplate stuff.

However, "not exploiting the deaths of children" seems like another good reason.

Personally, I like the one about how, when Obama was born, people knew that he would grow up to be the first US president, so they fudged his birth certificate.

And, despite being able to predict stuff like that that far in advance, they aren't the most qualified people to be running the US.

Don't forget, they had the foresight to get his name in the papers, but couldn't think a birth certificate might be necessary. When they were planning the run of a black guy in the 1960s. They didn't think there would be any scrutiny whatsoever about a black guy trying to take power. Keep in mind this was the same society that thought we'd have flying cars by the 1990s (thanks, Obama!), but blacks in space were still controversial. Still, they thought "oh, what the hell. Nobody will think twice about a black man running for President."

Yeah for a secret Muslim insurgent he sure does like blowing up Muslims with drones.

Maybe he's just really bad at his job. You know, like how he's also a socialist, yet private industry is getting a huge shot in the arm from his policies? And how he's pro-drugs and illegal immigrants, but prosecutions and deportations are higher than under Bush?

Or how he's coming to take our guns but the only thing gun-related he signed in his first term involved expanding the rights of gun owners? Of course, that was supposedly to lull us into a false sense of security so he could totally take our guns the minute he got re-elected.

Which, I'm sure will happen any day now.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

Study break right now. It amazes me that believers of conspiracy theories never question those who present them. I've been in the trenches for quite some time with a conspiracy theory regarding my favourite subject. Below is a perfect demonstration of why you shouldn't believe people like this. Please forgive the eccentric presentation style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6SZ7ka_M-8

Think about the effort that had to be exerted to create that. At no point did any of them think that it was immoral and would only serve to undermine them. There's a truckload of other lies and vital omissions in the video, but that's too much to post here.

The most painful part is that I've had conversations with people who acknowledge that the "documentarians" pulled this crap yet they still believe the theory.

 

[Strazdas]

Anything that goes agasint general idea now is called a conspiracy theory.

Er, not really, there has to be an outlandish and unlikely conspiracy

Also in the past they were also called works of the devil. lunacies. witchcraft. you get the picture.

Only they weren't. There were people that argued against them, sure, but that's not the same thing at all.

(I'll grant that certain religious groups would attack the age of the world, but not society as a whole, same with evolution)

One only needs to look at scientific community and how it treats ideas that goes against the status quo to see this. I mean heck the Russian meteorite was announced several times but was ignored as conspiracy.

And my pure, unadulterated hatred for Conspiracy theorists continues! The arrogant, idiotic scrambling for some hidden clues to a tragedy to satisfy their own insane beliefs will never stop filling be with hate.

So no, I'm not going to watch the video. I know full well that it's filled with inane ramblings from someone who either needs to be treated for severe paranoia or needs to work the giant stick out of their arse and beat themselves to death with it.

besides, why would they fake it? What do they gain out of it? Shit's and giggles? No! Surprisingly enough, Governments aren't actually these morbidly evil entities that fake mass murders for fun and games! They actually, you know, need something positive as an outcome from something, and 'pretending' to murder a bunch of children gets them fuck-all! Genuinely murdering a bunch of children also, surprisingly, gets them fuck-all! As horrible as governments can be, this is something they wouldn't - and couldn't - do, and any conspiracy theorists who even attempt to say 'oh, maybe they could have...' needs to bend over backwards, peel their arse cheeks open AND FUCK THEMSELVES WITH THEIR OWN HEAD.

*Stomps off angrily, raving about Conspiracy theorists*

So you hate people who have different opinions on what happened than you, then you say your going to hate them without even hearing what they have to say. That doesnt really give you any high position to look down on them you know.
As for the "posible gain" one only needs to look how Sandy Hook is STILL being tied to gaming to see where this is going.

So what you're saying is that a far more innocuous thing happened which didn't involve a large number of child deaths or national attention, therefore this less innocuous thing which did involve a large number of child deaths and national attention is plausible?

Sorry, but no. Just no.

No. What i am saying is that government is capable of highly orchestrated large scale secret projects resulting in no leaks, therefore you cant just write stuff off as "lol government is stupid".

You don't seem to understand what a conspiracy theory is.

On the contrary, i am arguing that the definition of conspiracy theory has shifted in the eyes of public.

 

[Strazdas]

No, you misunderstand. I don't hate people who have different opinions on what happened, I hate people who are complete fucking morons, who think that their stupid theories about an alternative action are somehow valid despite being made entirely of fictional evidence, assumed motivations, idiotic theories and just plain illogical arguments that make absolutely no sense no matter how you approach it. Your own little attachment bullshit-thing there of 'Well, it's STILL being tied to gaming, so you KNOW where this is going' shows just how stupid the assumption that this was faked is - no, no we don't know where it was going. The fact that it's still being tied to gaming has NO FUCKING INPUT ON THE MOTIVATIONS AND REASONS TO WHY IT HAPPENED, BECAUSE BEING CONNECTED TO GAMING IS THE STANDARD MEDIA RESPONSE TO THESE KINDS OF EVENTS. NOTHING WILL COME FROM THE 'STILL BEING CONNECTED TO GAMING', JUST LIKE THE LAST 50 FUCKING VIOLENT ACTIONS THAT WERE TIED TO GAMING. POINTING AT THAT AND GOING 'WELL, THAT COULD BE A REASON TO FAKE IT' IS LIKE POINTING AT AN ELEPHANT AND SAYING 'WELL, I GUESS I COULD FUCK IT' - IT'S ILLOGICAL, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AND IT'S JUST PLAIN DUMB.

So no, I don't hate Conspiracy Theorists because they have a different opinion to me. I hate them because they are the dumbest, shittiest human beings in existence and I want absolutely nothing to do with their inane, shitheaded theories.

Whether these people are stupid or not does not depend on you insulting them nor about you agreeing with their theories. Yet you hate them solely because you think their theories are "idiotic" and they are "fucking morons", and then dont even listen to what they have to say before starting the hate.
If their arguments are illogical, show the faults in thier logic, not start calling them names and hate them before even hearing the arguments. Whether their opinion is correct or not they still have a right to have it. There is a thing called freedom of speech that allows them to have their opinions.
Gaming connection is far beoynd media here. The official rport went to great lenghts to discuss the killers gaming habits even after claiming that they dont know the cause, something they havent done with any other hobby of the killers, singling gaming out. There is a league of gamers who celebrate the aniversary by not playing shooters to top it off. This has affected gaming far more than standart media response for these kind of events.

 

[magicmonkeybars]

If you have the time to watch this video, please do and let me know what you think of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1yfJDCMU64

I would say to not focus on some of the wackier shit that this lady says (the Agenda 21 and 1st - 5th Dimensions stuff) but to focus more on the details like the analysis of the photographs, the people milling around the fire house, the age of the Sandy Hook parents, etc.

In general, I am not a conspiracy theorist, but the fact that this whole scenario played out and we never even got a picture of the outside of the school where Lanza allegedly shot his way in has always seemed fishy to me. Couple that with the fact that with Columbine we had video of Klebold walking around the school in his trench coat, etc and something just seems off.

Also consider they completely razed the school and the construction workers were forced to sign an NDA, which was very odd.

I'm probably most suspicious of Robbie Parker - something doesn't square with me about that guy.

I think this video is part of the conspiracy it is exposing, it's just another partner brought in to play its part.

 

[Strazdas]

look, you seem to think I'm making this 'I HATE ALL CONSPIRACY THEORISTS' point without any actual information on the conspiracy theorists and theories themselves. Now, while I am never, ever, EVER going to watch that video, the fact that a) it's 90 fucking minutes long and b) the language the OP and further commenters use while discussing the video (the OP himself says 'oh, don't focus on the wackier shit'), tells me all that I need to know about the video and the theory contained within, namely that it's going to be batshit insane and focusing on little inconsistencies before blowing them up to be these gigantic, ground-breaking discoveries that 'pierce the veil of secrecy' or some shit. A quick google of the theorist shows that she's an advocate for theories behind Chemtrails and 9-11 conspiracies, which lets me know that she's got far too many screws loose to be allowed anywhere near recording instruments. So yes, even without listening to their bullshit I can already hate them, because everything surrounding these people lets me know that they are not sane, intellectual people discussing something but are crazy, fuck-knuckling idiots making bullshit claims that logic took one look at and went 'FUCK. THAT.'
And please, don't do the freedom of speech bullshit argument. Just don't do it. Yes, they have the right to spew whatever inane shit they want out of their idiotic mouths. I have the right to call them every possible insult under the sun, call their 'arguments' insults to any form of intelligence and just generally hate them with every fiber of my being. Like a man who thinks all black people are sub-human, they have the right to their beliefs and I have the right to call them shitstains on humanity. It's truly the wonder of freedom, don't you think?
As for your last point... the idea that Sandy Hook was somehow a ploy to ruin the games industry is... well, I'm going to stop you pursuing that line of reasoning right now by saying that that very premise is easily one of the dumbest possible conspiracy theories I've ever heard in my entire life, which is really saying something. So please, don't go down that particular rabbit hole because it will not lead you anywhere good or intelligent.

Ah, so nice that you can learn about the whole conspiracy and what is going to be shown in the video based on 7 words comment from OP. you certainly know how much "idiotic" the conspiracy theories are.
Also you seem to be much in facour of Ad Hominem logical fallacy, which i suggest you to stop using if you want anyone to take your posts seriuosly.
No, you dont have a right to call them "every possible insult under the sun". You have a right to prove their claims wrong. Them posting wrong material or different interpretations does not give you a right to insult them and call them idiots. So far you have provided aboslutely no evidence that they are so or that they are even wrong, only kept talking about how you hate them.
So you yourself are stating that you hate them like a man who thinks all black people are subhuman, in short, you are being a bigot, and expect to take the high ground with such view.

I never said that sandy hook was a plot to ruin game industries. i said that they are trying to keep connection to games from sandy hook. in fact i stated multiple times on this thread that i do not believe sandy hook was a result of any conspiracy. That does not mean i consider people who believe so somehow worse than me. on the other hand, you do. But then again all you do is throw around accusations and hatespeech so far.

What i implied however i think deserves better explanation. Linking of sandy hood and videogames will not destroy videogames, it will possibly bring in even higher regulation of videogames, such as legally enforceable rating system. This is harmful to humanity as a whole.

Also i suggest you start using less insults before a moderator comes to this thread, they are very hard on insulting other people here.

 

[Strazdas]

...ok, I have to ask - have you taken a philosophy first year course at some time in your life? Serious question really, you sound an awful lot like a first year philosophy student.

Now, you seem to have misunderstood that 'Like a man who hates black people' part of my argument - admittedly the wording was a bit hazy - I wasn't labeling myself as the person with the disgusting views, I was labeling them as the person with the disgusting views, and I, under those same lovely 'rules' that allow them to harbour those disgusting views, am allowed to think of them as however I please. You said so yourself that they have the right to an opinion, which I do too - in this case, thinking they're horrible people for having such disgusting views.

As for the rest of your post... look, did you really, and I mean REALLY look at my initial post? There's no argument there, no debate pulling their discussion down. It's just a plain, simple statement - I hate conspiracy theorists. I hate them with a passion. I have zero interest in interacting with any of their arguments, because I know full well from experience (and you must remember, I googled the woman who did the video in the OP, noting that she also harbours 9-11 conspiracies which is all the red flags to warn me that she's full of shit) that there is nothing to be gained from interacting with them, only time and faith in humanity to be lost. I am not here to logically tear down their argument, to disprove their theories, to counter their points and prove them wrong - I am quite simply here to express my undying hatred for conspiracy theorists. Like the man posting in an Anita Saarkesian thread just to say 'he doesn't care', I am here in this thread just to post how I feel about this particular kind of person. Apparently this is enough to slight you in some way, otherwise you wouldn't be pursuing this matter when every response I've had to you has just been me reiterating the fact that I hate them and don't care about any bullshit they have to say.

To bring this all to a nice, delightful close - I don't care. I hate these people with the fury of a thousand suns. I hate these people so passionately that it could quite honestly keep me warm through the coldest winters. I hate them so utterly, so completely that if you were to ever weaponize my hate you could obliterate ten thousand stars in the blink of an eye and still have left over hatred. Now, I have my reasons for this absolute hate - every interaction, every theory, every conspiracy I've seen has been so idiotic, so arrogant, so presumptuous and so illogical that the very nature of their existence is offensive - but I'm not going to disclose the full reasons for this hatred here, because quite frankly it's too long to put down. To the video in the OP and the people it involves, I have seen enough to know exactly what to expect, and as such I can file them away in that warm little ball of hatred and forever think less of them for believing that the massacre at a school was somehow planned by the government because 'reasons'. Now, you might not like the fact that I embrace this hatred so willingly, but I say to that - deal with it. My deep, brilliant hatred for a 'group' of people has zero effect on your life unless you happen to share similar beliefs, to which I respond with 'well, when you think a horrible tragedy was faked for political reasons, what the hell were you expecting?' And even then, the hatred of someone you will never, ever, EVER meet in real life, whom you will only ever know from one thread on one website and is completely and utterly anonymous to you... well, does it really matter then? Really? Truly?

As for the 'hate speech' against the Conspiracy theorists - see, this would be a pretty valid claim if I was going out of my way to villainize them or they were a collective group, but considering Conspiracy Theorists tend to just be individual people or small groups of people that have no real affiliation, it's just petty insults and good ol' fashioned hatred. Tell you what though - I'll stop thinking so poorly of all Conspiracy theorists if the next 5 years of Conspiracies turn out to be true. Sound like a deal?

There was a amandatory half of a year course of philosophy when i was studying economics, but we learnt more about philosopher works and history rather than done any actually philosophical thinking. That however has not much to do with coversation unless you are employing ad hominem again.

You see, from all 3 of your previuos posts you gave us the impression that in fact you thought of them as something "not a man" hence your example would perfectly fit the position. But apperently i was wrong there and you think conspiracy theorists somehow think everyone else are less than them when you express such views in your hatred.
You have a right to have an opinion of them to whatever extent you want, however that does not mean we should not call you out for being a bigot if your opinion is bigoted. "disusting views" are as subjective as "dusgusting skin colour". as in, thats your personal opinion and nothing more.

Considering that i was replying to your initial post, yes, i read it. You expressed blind hatred while admiting that you took no time to research their point to begin with (didnt watch the video). instead you based your opinion about them based on hearsay (what OP said) and went on a rant of how much you hate them and how bad they are. This is not an intelligence discussion nor a constructive criticism.
Neither a man posting in Saarkesian thread saying he does not care neither your hatred really brings us anything useful. In fact, hatred brings quite the opposite.

You care. If you did not care you would not have opened the thread, you would not have posted a long rant about them and least of all you would not have spent so much time arguing with me. You hate them, that is clear, but hatred is care in itself. If you did not care you would be indifferent.
Your reasons for hatred are your own, however the way you decribe them could be equal to me seeing 5 bad cars in a row and deciding that all cars produced from there on will always be bad and i wont even look at them. Not very logical or useful way of thinking.
"Deal with it" sounds a lot like "let them eat cake". Or should i use a mroe recent MS example?

What the hell i was expecting? I was expecting you to listen to my points and either agree, refute or say you dont have enough knowledge to say either way. I was not expecting to be hated just because my hypothesis is different than the official version.

So if hating is ok as long as you dont villianize them and its not a collective group its not a hate speech. I guess saying that all gamers are dorks who live in basements are and good for nothing is not hate speech either.

And your deal would sound as illogical if you had said that you would stop thinking so poorly of all scientists if the next 5 years of scientific hypothesis are going to turn out to be true. That doesn't happen and you know it. In fact i am currently creating a scientific model to deduct change of bankruptcy. I do not know whether it will turn out to be a good prediction or not yet, however i am going to do experiments and see what it turns out to be. Now if everyone in scientific community would just decide to hate me because im offering something new before even listening to what i have to say, that wouldnt be very constructive now would it? (also: most of such models fail, but those that dont are very useful. that is science for you, you can base everything of first 5 attempts you saw)