Sandy Hook - the Conspiracy (with video)

[nepheleim]

They are, in short, indistinguishable from common trolls and cannot be taken seriously until such time as they provide sources for their claims and try to discuss them in a rational manner.

Since research is a huge part of my life now, I find this same flaw present in mass media. Apparently God Himself will strike down the Senator, Representative, legislator, or journalist who actually cites his sources for me to check.

 

[Something Amyss]

Still you got to admit it could be the plot point for an interesting sci-fi show. In order to cover up a disasterous alien/supernatural encounter the government uses a school shooting as a pretext to get rid of all the evidence in one large swoop. If I ever go into writing maybe I should use conspiracy theories for insparation...

To be honest, I'm a fantasy/sci-fi author and I love to let my imagination run wild with this shit. I looooooove it. The thing is, at the end of the day, I can put it away as flights of fantasy, instead of demanding the government come clean.

I love to dream about a world of weird and creepy things. I'm caught between an analytic mind and an overactive imagination.

So yeah, I will totally admit it. XD

Precisely my point. Something that we now know exists, we can create it, was a conspiracy theory before.

Except it wasn't. there's a difference between "unproven" and "conspiracy theory."

I'm sorry you don't seem to get this, but that doesn't make it true.

There were leaks of a workign exoskeleton, public remaining unaware.

Not "leaks," news.

there were experiments on sleep removal (synthetically stimulating brain to stop needing sleep, thought little is know about this project that can be confirmed), yet the public is obvliviuos.

Except the information has been there for a long time. People not knowing about it doesn't make it a conspiracy theory, dude. The average person doesn't know how nuclear power works, either. Doesn't make it a conspiracy.

I gave examples. i even quoted one of the responses in this very post.

You've failed to demonstrate the meteroite was labelled a conspiracy theory by the scientific community. Should I take this dodge as concession?

No, it does not. Freedom of speech does not allow you to insult people.

Err...Yes it does. Demonstrate, concretely otherwise.

And hating them does?

I didn't say that. I merely pointed out what was wrong with your statement.

The part of my response that you quoted for this dealt exclusively with him saying he wants to rant and insult in this post and thats why he came here, therefore i responded by showing him it is agianst posting guidelines.

While making free speech claims.

I think you misunderstood me. I got no problem with scientific scrutiny. I was referring to cases where they were not even willing to listen to the proposal before writing it off as "conspiracy".

Again, prove it. You listed a specific example of the scientific community calling something a conspiracy theory. Give some actual examples.

As for people milling around, it's already been said above. But go find a firefighter, or your local police, or CERT people after an emergency and they'll all tell you that panic makes people do weird things. Behavioral analysis of an immediate post-crisis individual won't tell you too much about that individual.

Hell, go talk to someone who's lost a loved one.

When my grandfather died, my grandmother spoke to me like she was reporting the weather. Now, part of me was mad at the time. I was mad that she wasn't more upset. But that doesn't mean my grandfather is still alive, or he was murdered instead of dying from stroke complications. I went numb when my uncle died, because we were so often compared. I knew people who lived close enough to ground zero to scare the shit out of me, and I just bottled it up for two days. One of them had to get part of a passenger seat removed from their building before it was deemed safe to get their stuff. I didn't know this, with all the panic going on, they could have been dead.

Yeah.

Which makes me wonder if these people have ever lost someone before, of if they're truly that isolated.

 

[Strazdas]

and you're under the belief that the government could possibly pull something of this scale off.
but obviously the US government have done shady crap before, and could again.

Which is all i was arguing for - the government being capable of committing conspiracy (opposed to how most people wrote government as automatically too stupid)

No, that's not the case. I'm not sure you know what a "conspiracy theory" is. Just because something is unproven does not make it a conspiracy theory. Take dark matter. There is scientific evidence that suggests that the universe should hold more mass than we have observed. Therefore, scientists have speculated that dark matter, an unobserved type of matter, makes up that remaining mass. This has the weight of scientific theory and a considerable amount of scientific fact behind it. We call these "hypotheses".

Conspiracy theories are backed up by no facts at all. Their proponents twist words, argue semantics, and prolong debates to distract from the absolute dearth of logic that forms the entirety of their arguments. They cannot be proven wrong, however, because they trust absolutely no outside evidence and will change their theories to fit whatever "facts" they claim to have discovered. They consistently claim they are "misunderstood" in order to reiterate their same tired points over and over again with slightly different language. Similarly, they consistently fail to back up their claims with any evidence at all (for example, providing sources claiming that the Russian meteorite was decried as a hoax). They misinterpret the meaning of "freedom of speech" to mean "freedom of any speech not hurtful to me". They claim to enjoy debate, but are incapable of rhetoric, instead ignoring their opponents' opinions to howl all the louder. They are, in short, indistinguishable from common trolls and cannot be taken seriously until such time as they provide sources for their claims and try to discuss them in a rational manner.

I didnt say antimatter was a conspiracy. I said it was called a conspiracy.
wikipedia claims "A conspiracy theory is an explanatory proposition that accuses two or more people, a group, or an organization of having caused or covered up, through deliberate collusion, an event or phenomenon of great social, political, or economic impact. In recent decades the term has acquired a derogatory meaning, and a careful distinction must be made between the derisive use of the term and reference to actual, proven conspiracies."
Nothing is said about providing or not providing proof.

Not "leaks," news.

"News" have shown a pretty poor and wired prototype. Leaks have shown one that is self-sufficient to a point. Leaks were called a hoax by the military.

Except the information has been there for a long time. People not knowing about it doesn't make it a conspiracy theory, dude. The average person doesn't know how nuclear power works, either. Doesn't make it a conspiracy.

It does not make it a conspiracy theory and yet people claim it is a conspiracy theory. Hence the term being changed.

You've failed to demonstrate the meteroite was labelled a conspiracy theory by the scientific community. Should I take this dodge as concession?

I never claimed that the meteorite was a conspiracy theory. We have been warned about it long ago though, by scientists, however other scientists have said that the claimant scientist is just a conspiracy nut and the asteroid will pass by earth. Turns out not both of the asteroids passed, one of them hit.

Err...Yes it does. Demonstrate, concretely otherwise.

So i did some research and you are correct in this. Mere insults are not beyond freedom of speech.

Give some actual examples.

Most of current physic theories before their recognition.

 

[BakedSardine]

Here you go: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/photo-galleries/2013/11/25/sandy-hook-massacre-evidence-photos/
Starting at picture 12 are the photos of the sandy hook entrance that got shot out. There are more exterior shots under that same url.
As for people milling around, it's already been said above. But go find a firefighter, or your local police, or CERT people after an emergency and they'll all tell you that panic makes people do weird things. Behavioral analysis of an immediate post-crisis individual won't tell you too much about that individual.
They did tear down the school to build a new one (allegedly, dunno if construction was ever started or finished).

Thanks - first I have seen these pics. When were they released?

 

[nepheleim]

Here you go: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/photo-galleries/2013/11/25/sandy-hook-massacre-evidence-photos/
Starting at picture 12 are the photos of the sandy hook entrance that got shot out. There are more exterior shots under that same url.
As for people milling around, it's already been said above. But go find a firefighter, or your local police, or CERT people after an emergency and they'll all tell you that panic makes people do weird things. Behavioral analysis of an immediate post-crisis individual won't tell you too much about that individual.
They did tear down the school to build a new one (allegedly, dunno if construction was ever started or finished).

Thanks - first I have seen these pics. When were they released?

Judging by the URL: 11-25-13
Probably the same time the final report was released, along with its myriad appendices.

 

[kurokotetsu]

ticket from science police

sigh. you have misunderstood me. I was correcting myself from saying "black matter" to what i actually meant to say - antimatter.

OK, you talk about Antimatter. OK. Can you provide a single quote of someone saying it was a conspiracy theory. A quote from Dirac accusing the scientific community of covering his discovery. Bohr, Einstein, Heisenberg or Schrödinger calling him a conspiracy nut. Anyone at all claiming that any physical theory was a conspiracy theory. Just please produce a single reliable source of someone saying that antimatter was a conspiracy thoery. Or Relativity. Or QM. Or QED. Or the Standard Model. Or even unproven hypothesis with scientific recongition like String or Quantum Loop. Or someone talking down Maxwell, or Faraday, or even Newton. Or hell, produce a quote form someon calling another scientist "You are a conspiracy nut" from the recent Chelyablinsk meteor. Really. A single reliable quote. Because from my reitereited contact with physiscist and mathematicians, when being critical of other hypothesis, not a single one has clained it is a"conspiracy theory" in great part because IT IS NOT A THEORY to any scientist before it has been proven. SO probably the ticket stands, check your sources.