Saw "The Desolation of Smaug", want to share a few thoughts

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Saw it yesterday in 3D 48 frames per second. Here's a few thoughts

1. A lot, and I mean a LOT better than the first one.

2. Smaug: Holy shit he was awesome! Woe betide the poor soul who has to take responsibility for the next big movie dragon. This is what the dragons in all the 80's fantasy movies dreamed of looking like. Though for all the hype about Benedict Cumberbatch voicing him, he could have been voiced by anybody. The voice is so post-processed and lowered anyway it hardly makes a difference.

3. 3D: Completely unnecessary, added bugger all to the movie.

4. The 48 FPS: Didn't bother me at all. In fact IMO it made the movie look even better. Especially in all scenes featuring Smaug I was glued to the silver screen. The animation was super smooth and you always saw what was going on. It opened my eyes on the potential of HFR techonology improving movies. I think it might be in part thanks to playing all those 60 FPS shooters that my eyes were more used to the smooth framerate.

5. Despite the movie being a really good time, there were moments where I still went "Oh, come on". For example, the dwarves had to be smuggled into Laketown in barrels, but apparently dozens of orcs can just sneak in by night. Yeah, totally.

So that's my 2 cents. Anything to add or talk about?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

You might say the movie was barrels of fun.

But here are my nitpicks.

1) Legolas & Tauriel are too awesome. Fanfic levels of cringy awesome. In LOTR Legolas had ONE badass scene per movie, tops. Now every time he shows up he's up to something rad yo. How many times did he skate on somebody in this movie? I counted 2 or 3.

2) Following up on Tauriel, another fanfic character: the Lost chick is distracting. Should've cast a relative unknown. Some of the actors in LOTR were pretty well known but come on, Viggo, Orlando and the Hobbits rode in on their anonymity.

3) Love triangle bullshit. Legolas can't act for shit, he looks exactly the same whether he's being "jealous" at Tauriel and Kili, or hunting for orc, or facing his dad, whatever. Didn't feel the tension or buy the conflict for one second.

4) Too much CGI. I miss the rubber orcs.

5) Padded. Too many scenes of Gandalf walking around in Dol Guldur accomplishing nothing except creating little cliffhangers while Bilbo faces Smaug.

The 48 FPS generally didn't feel right. Adding frames accelerates the images (duh) but the editing remains the same as it were done on regular 24/25 FPS. More visual input over the same amount of time equals the illusion of acceleation, and every shot seems to go too fast and not long enough, as if were hastily cut. Establishing shots and such were great but when it came to cutting inside scenes, with dialogue and such, it didn't feel right. Obviously over time you get used to it but... I dunno the gimmick was distracting for a while. With this and the 3D I feel they're trying to make up for the lack of something. Do we really need all this stuff to motivate us to go to the movies?

 

[tippy2k2]

I really hated the first one (well...hates a strong word; more like enjoyed it but was bugged so much by two issues that it basically ruined the damn movie). So without spoiling anything (pretty please ), could you tell me if my hated items from the first one has been removed from this one?

THERE WILL BE SPOILERS FOR "Hobbit: Unexpected Journey". I assume you are fine with that since you just saw the 2nd one so I will not bother with spoiler tags.

To me, the movies hit what I am dubbing "The George Lucas" effect; heavy CGI and little kid jokes.

For example:
CGI - The end chase when the dwarves are running out of the mountain away from the goblins was just terrible looking. The characters themselves looked fine but the movement looked absolutely terrible to me. Lots of "rubber" movement

Spoiler: See this fight scene from Blade 2 if you're not sure what I mean

Notice how unnatural the movement of the vampires is? Especially when they have the spotlight behind them; it looks like they've got no bone structure in doing their flips and whatnot

"Kiddy" humor - Adding stupid little shit to get giggles out of little kids. When the goblin king (or whatever he was) gets disemboweled, his last words were "Well that didn't go well" or some other similar junk. A stupid throw-away line put it to make little kids laugh. The battle droids in Star Wars Episode I-III are the perfect example of this when they make "WHOA!" and "WAHHH!" noises when they get attacked.

So after hearing my whining about the first one, does Smaug fix these issues or am I in for another eye roller?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

So after hearing my whining about the first one, does Smaug fix these issues or am I in for another eye roller?

One of the dwarves asks the sexy elf if she wants to frisk his undies for a weapon. I thought that was oddly juvenile and out of place in Middle Earth. Generally speaking every moment with Legolas and Tauriel, the too-cool-for-school deus ex machinas that teleport wherever small kids need saving. No, really!

And yes, lots of CG dogs.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

So after hearing my whining about the first one, does Smaug fix these issues or am I in for another eye roller?

Pretty much fixes all the issues of the first one, if only to throw in some new, if less problematic ones. There's a few scenes where you can clearly tell they were done in CGI (wait 'til you see the barrel scene, you'll know what it is), but there's nothing even close to the cringe-inducing digital-fest that was the fat goblin chief in the first one. No fart jokes or cheesy Radagast this time either. He's only in it for like 5 minutes, and those are well played and serious scenes. There was one bit in the barrel scene which almost approached kiddy comedy, but it got away with it for being only a few seconds long and, in a word, just damn cool.

 

[ScorpionPrince]

I really hated the first one (well...hates a strong word; more like enjoyed it but was bugged so much by two issues that it basically ruined the damn movie). So without spoiling anything (pretty please ), could you tell me if my hated items from the first one has been removed from this one?

THERE WILL BE SPOILERS FOR "Hobbit: Unexpected Journey". I assume you are fine with that since you just saw the 2nd one so I will not bother with spoiler tags.

To me, the movies hit what I am dubbing "The George Lucas" effect; heavy CGI and little kid jokes.

For example:
CGI - The end chase when the dwarves are running out of the mountain away from the goblins was just terrible looking. The characters themselves looked fine but the movement looked absolutely terrible to me. Lots of "rubber" movement

Spoiler: See this fight scene from Blade 2 if you're not sure what I mean

Notice how unnatural the movement of the vampires is? Especially when they have the spotlight behind them; it looks like they've got no bone structure in doing their flips and whatnot

"Kiddy" humor - Adding stupid little shit to get giggles out of little kids. When the goblin king (or whatever he was) gets disemboweled, his last words were "Well that didn't go well" or some other similar junk. A stupid throw-away line put it to make little kids laugh. The battle droids in Star Wars Episode I-III are the perfect example of this when they make "WHOA!" and "WAHHH!" noises when they get attacked.

So after hearing my whining about the first one, does Smaug fix these issues or am I in for another eye roller?

I saw both hobbit movies on the same day and the goblin king death scene was actually funny to me (I'm 25). Here's the scene (first 25 seconds)

Spoiler

I thought the "that'll do it" line was a nice break from the standard bad guy death scenes. It's just very dry humour, which I like. I wouldn't call it "kiddy" or "pandering to kids". Apparently the actor improvised the line and they kept it.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I thought the "that'll do it" line was a nice break from the standard bad guy death scenes. It's just very dry humour, which I like. I wouldn't call it "kiddy" or "pandering to kids". Apparently the actor improvised the line and they kept it.

I don't know it's kiddy or pandering but it's good enough (i.e. awful) to be used in Jason X over 10 years before.


Go to 9:10.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I also watched Desolation of Smaug yesterday, also in 3D and in 48 frames (not by choice, fandango screwed up the movie times. According to fandango the movie was supposed to have a 2D showing at 9:15, I get there and it turns out there's no 2D showing and the next closes is 3D at 9:45).

Stuff I liked:

Smaug was fucking radical. Looked fantastic, sounded fantastic, and was everything I could hope a giant CGI dragon to be. Definitely going to be watching the third movie just for him.

The spiders were equally well rendered and incredibly creepy. I wish the sequence with them had been longer.

The bits where Gandalf leaves the dwarves. A lot of people didn't like this since it wasn't in the original book, but I enjoyed the hell out of these parts. Spooky and cool environments, great music, a little magic use. These sections really spiced up the movie for me.


Stuff I didn't like:

A lot of the CGI backgrounds don't look very good in 48 frames per second. The actors end up looking too crisp in comparison to the background which makes the CGI look kind of cheap and shoddy at times, even though it should be anything but that.

The decision to have shots from the barrels' perspectives during the river chase sequence. They had cheap cameras mounted to the barrels (obviously since they didn't want to damage the expensive ones), so every time they cut in a shot from those it looked like someone spliced home movies into a blockbuster. Even though it was only a few seconds of the entire movie it REALLY bothered me, because it didn't add anything to the movie and just looked ugly.

The ending didn't really have any kind of resolution. I mean I know that this is the second movie of the trilogy, but it just kind of ended with a cliffhanger. At least the first movie had a full arch that it ended on (Bilbo finding his courage and saving Thorin), but this one just felt like it cut in the middle of the climax and was really unsatisfying. Not sure if there was anything that could have been changed, I just know that it massively deflated my excitement when I exited the theater.


Stuff I was ambivalent to:

Speaking of things that don't add anything to the movie, Legolas and Tauriel. Nothing would have changed if they hadn't been included. They didn't make the movie better or worse, just longer.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

5. Despite the movie being a really good time, there were moments where I still went "Oh, come on". For example, the dwarves had to be smuggled into Laketown in barrels, but apparently dozens of orcs can just sneak in by night. Yeah, totally.

So that's my 2 cents. Anything to add or talk about?

I can agree with you on that. When the orcs were sneaking in, I was afraid we were about to see some poor souls get slaughtered guarding the town. I always feel sorry for those poor guards who are in the wrong place at the wrong time, but that didn't happen here. I was a bit confused by that--and the total lack of response from the town once the fighting started. Am I honestly to believe that guards didn't come rushing once the fighting broke out? And there are zero guards on that long bridge connecting the town to the shore? I'm hoping this is addressed in the extended edition.

Another issue I had was the fact that there's a story about how Smaug is missing his scale. How on earth did someone notice that in the middle of a raging firestorm? Yeah, I don't think so. If I recall correctly, Bilbo notices it when Smaug is bragging about himself--like in the movie, but not because he'd heard about a legend. And the thrush was supposed to be with him when he saw it, if I recall.

And I couldn't help but think about Kili

Spoiler

"All that effort and work to save Kili is going to be wasted." Yeah, sorry, but he doesn't make it.

But on the whole I enjoyed this movie very much. Much more than the first one, as many have already said. The spiders talk, which was a huge relief to me, and I enjoyed seeing what Gandalf was up to. That scene where he's climbing the mountain was cool. Reminded me of playing video games and discovering a hidden area.

 

[ohnoitsabear]

I just saw it. Unfortunately, there wasn't anywhere in town that was showing it in 48 fps, which is a shame, because they were showing the last one in 48 frames. But oh well.

I really enjoyed it. My only complaint would be that the Legolas and Tauriel stuff didn't fit very well, and I didn't like the shoehorned in romantic subplot. But other than that, I can't think of anything I didn't like that wasn't super nitpicky. I'm really looking forward to part three.

Also, Smaug was fucking awesome. Like seriously. Holy crap.

 

[Glongpre]

I really didn't like it. I think I hate it more than the first.

1. Smaug was actually well done, I'll give it that much. The whole action sequence that followed was unnecessary though.

2. The Tauriel/Kili thing was so bad. The writing was just cringe worthy, I was embarrassed to watch.

3. This book could have been done in 2 movies lets be serious. The added conflicts are awful (Bard vs mayor etc).

4. Silly, ridiculous action sequences. In the first it was Thorin getting his head caved in....oh wait, he is fine. In this one it is everyone hiding behind pillars while miraculously avoiding being burned to a crisp by Smaug's fire. Those are the most obvious facepalm moments.

5. You know what, I'll just go ahead and say I liked the book better and that the scenes that were changed really didn't need to be changed. I'm cool with the extrastuff, like Azog and the Necromancer, but when he changed the troll scenario, I was like "why? There is no reason to change this scene!! It would work perfectly fine in a movie!!!"

Bah.

 

[Julius Terrell]

I'll say that I liked it A LOT more than the first movie. I just wanted the plot to get moving. I've never read the book so I can't comment on the differences.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

I don't really know what people are talking about with spoilers in this topic here. I mean, the movie follows the book generally and the book's been out for 50+ years. Not only that, a whole lotta people read the book as well even if they had to only because it was required reading at most High Schools. It's like warning people about spoilers in the original Star Wars trilogy.

 

[DoPo]

I mean, the movie follows the book generally and the book's been out for 50+ years.

And can you remind me how many other books, movies, and everything else have been out for the same time? Can you say you've read, watched, listened to, whatever EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER. PIECE. from that period? I know I certainly haven't. I know couple of other people who also haven't. Don't know about the rest of the world, though - maybe us three are freaks.

Not only that, a whole lotta people read the book as well

And a whole lotta people also didn't read the book.

even if they had to only because it was required reading at most High Schools.

Hey, you know what - not everybody lives in the USA. Shocking, I know - there other countries and stuff. Some high schools actually don't have the Hobbit as part of the curriculum. Actually, I'll even say most high schools don't have it. And here is a thought - have you read all the books that are in the required reading for most, say, French, German or maybe Russian high schools?

 

[Blow_Pop]

I, as a huge fan of the book, hated a lot of things they did.

Hated addition of Tauriel, a character only briefly mentioned in the silmarilion with no conjunction to the events happening in the hobbit.

In addition, Hollywood, why the fuck does just about everything have to have a romance in it? Especially one that makes no sense. Not only that but a fucking love triangle?

And Legolas. Never fucking mentioned. Granted, most of the book fans I have talked to as well as myself agree that most likely he WAS there at his father's side. So, a bit more understandable in him showing up.

Loved the spider scene. Very well done.

Fire physics. Seriously. Hollywood, fire does NOT work that way. And seriously? Huge gold statue? Wtf?

I can understand some of the things NOT put in whilst in Mirkwood. But why speed up everything so much? They were lost for weeks before spiders if I recall correctly.

Fuck you laketown. That is NOT why they had a delay. Bilbo got sick from falling into the waters of mirkwood. Kili never got shot by a poisioned arrow.

And that's not how they got into beorn's house. It was 2x2 and they slightly tricked him (mind fuzzy on this could be slightly wrong but it WAS 2x2). I mean it was interesting but kind of unnecessary.

The dialogue between Bilbo and Smaug. That is a whole clusterfuck of wrong.

And jesus fuck. If you are ending the movie there, at least set fucking laketown on fire before cutting to credits. Though, personally, they should have killed smaug this movie and then done the battle of 5 armies as its own movie.

I apparently spoiled that and 3 deaths in the theatre. But I don't give a fuck as it is a story published in 1937. You didn't read it before seeing it at midnight? I feel that's your own problem. Not going to hold your hand for a book I read over 15 years ago for the first time that has been out for 76 years. To me, that's like going to watch any version of a christmas carol and complaining about being spoiled for the book. Completely pointless.

Also, yes, in this case I am a complete fucking purist. I understand that the book can be long and tedious.

And I didn't mind them showing where gandalf ran off to because its kind of unexplained in the book and too many people would be going wtf happened? But seriously, the sub plots with that were mostly unnecessary. All they had to show was him showing up there and it would have been fine. *goes to curl up with worn and well read copy of the hobbit*

 

[Liham]

I mean, the movie follows the book generally and the book's been out for 50+ years.

And can you remind me how many other books, movies, and everything else have been out for the same time? Can you say you've read, watched, listened to, whatever EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER. PIECE. from that period? I know I certainly haven't. I know couple of other people who also haven't. Don't know about the rest of the world, though - maybe us three are freaks

How many other books from the time period have been considered classic children's novels pretty much since they were released?

 

[Epic_Bubble]

I mean, the movie follows the book generally and the book's been out for 50+ years.

Hey, you know what - not everybody lives in the USA. Shocking, I know - there other countries and stuff. Some high schools actually don't have the Hobbit as part of the curriculum. Actually, I'll even say most high schools don't have it. And here is a thought - have you read all the books that are in the required reading for most, say, French, German or maybe Russian high schools?

Sorry to rain on your parade but South africa the hobbit is one of our set readers in grade 10 I believe. Not just chose one of these books to do an essay on but proper sit in class and read line by line with the teacher. Its an extremely well known book more so I would say than LOTR. The guy makes a good point if one is familiar with the book or as I did reread the book before the first movie came out, alot of the scenes feel padded even some of the characters motivations get changed purely to suit Jacksons Narrative.

Hobbit->Childs book expected to see a more happy joking tale.

What I got->Hey guys check out this awesome prequeal to my LOTR movie check out all the old characters that I totally added in just to remind you of my awesome LOTR movie.

 

[Jamieson 90]

I've read the book and I loved the film. Went to see it in 3D IMAX at 48 fps and it was amazing, worth going to see it just for Smaug alone, my god how good was Smaug? And that voice? And yeah people are complaining about him talking too much? He's a vain ass fucking dragon so of course he's going talk so much; he loves his own voice.

Thought it was much better than the first one too, thank god they got rid of the singing and kiddy humour; helped that they sped up the plot somewhat too.

 

[William Ossiss]

Saw it yesterday in 3D 48 frames per second. Here's a few thoughts

1. A lot, and I mean a LOT better than the first one.

By which you mean that it was really bad fan fiction. A dwarf elf love triangle? Would never happen. Jackson just seems to be getting off on this.

2. Smaug: Holy shit he was awesome! Woe betide the poor soul who has to take responsibility for the next big movie dragon. This is what the dragons in all the 80's fantasy movies dreamed of looking like. Though for all the hype about Benedict Cumberbatch voicing him, he could have been voiced by anybody. The voice is so post-processed and lowered anyway it hardly makes a difference.

By which you mean that they messed up Tolkien's original image of Smaug. Tolkien painted a picture in which Smaug had 4 legs, and was NOT a wyvern.

Wyverns ---> two legs and wings with hands
Dragons ---> four legs and two wings on back.
We don't want something that (to vaguely mis-quote some Terry Prachett) is scientifically correct. We want the Mythological beast in all of its' splendor and glory. A beast that COULD not scientifically hold itself aloft.

5. Despite the movie being a really good time, there were moments where I still went "Oh, come on". For example, the dwarves had to be smuggled into Laketown in barrels, but apparently dozens of orcs can just sneak in by night. Yeah, totally.

That is where fanfiction came into play. There was no love triangle in the book. There were no orcs in laketown in the book. No dwarves were left behind in Laketown when the rest went to the mountain. There never was a morgul arrow. <-- That should have been your first clue that this was where the book ended and Peter Jackson's delusions about how "He can make it better" began. Legolas didn't even show up till LOTR. It was like watching a mans obsession with a male elf. In which he fantasizes about him being badass and super hot, then remembers that this is a story about Dwarves and one Hobbit. Smaug also didn't screw around in the dwarven keep. He realized that once Bilbo said 'Barrel rider' that Laketown had something to do with it. So he flew off to deal with that, leaving the dwarves to run around in the dark for about a week. Bard the Bowman seems to have been downgraded to Bard the Bargeman and then Bard the Crossbowman...

Jackson has really undercut the message of mercy from the book. I can understand killing Saruman off way before his time, so that they couldn't do the Hobbit war at the end of TRotK. I can understand leaving out Tom Bombadil in TFotR. But when you think yourself the only one who knows best and decide to add a whole bunch of crap that wasn't even in the Silmarillion or any other Tolkien book... You go too far. I don't even want to watch the next movie now.