Saying 'no' to a woman

[Terramax]

Recently, I've come to a realisation that, whilst it's a woman's god-given right to say no to a man wanting sex (and rightfully so), it seems the same rule doesn't apply in reverse. Women get REAL angry sometimes if a guy says no. Anyways, to my current situation.

I'm currently in a relationship with an amazing Japanese lady, but she sometimes wants it more than I ever do (which is quite a feat, I will say).

Recently, I had a great day with my GF. Your typical lazy day with a partner. Window shopping, restaurants, park, at home with a good movie (Ghost).

Later that night, in bed, she begins kissing me intimately. Kissing turns to tongues, but I'm just not in the mood (and I hate tonguing). Furthermore, earlier that day, she actually said she didn't want us to have sex anyway.

After a while, when I don't share tonguing back, she gets the message. She rolls over to her side of the bed, saying "I understand, you don't want my kisses", shrugs me off when I try to put my arm around her and, 5-10 minutes later, starts crying. I ask what's wrong, and she tells me it's to do with another problem of hers (but I know she's lying). Eventually, I cave in and we get down and dirty.

Later in the night, I confront her (subtly) and say I knew the real reason for her crying. She tells me never to turn down her kisses ever again.

This is the first time in the relationship I've ever been upset with my GF. The main reason is the principle of what I mention on the first paragraph. Along with the fact that she was quite certain when she said no sex earlier in the day. Perhaps it's because the day was so perfect, that she wanted it to end that way, but I can't help but feel that it's the age old story of the woman thinking that what she wants always comes before what a man wants.

So, how do other guys deal with this problem?

 

[Abomination]

Japanese lady

I'm thinking this point might need to be expanded on a bit more to actually get a complete understanding of the situation.

From a cultural perspective, -HOW- Japanese is she? Because at times there's some freaky personal evaluation that occurs in oriental cultures and a woman's sexual advances being rebuffed by her partner can carry with it some implied serious failing on her part. "He doesn't want me anymore. He doesn't find me attractive. Our relationship is doomed. I've failed as a woman."

Of course there's an obvious double-standard here but one must remember in Japan that relationship gender roles are far more "intact" than ours in the West.

As much as I think that refusing a kiss, like my colleagues above me, is refusing a display of affection - in this case when tongue gets involved and you're in bed the "kiss" isn't a kiss at all but a prelude and a non-verbal expression of "I want sex."

You most certainly didn't do anything wrong. Nobody should ever be expected to perform sexual intercourse against their will. The fact that she wouldn't let confide in you the reason why she was crying is a bit of an alarm bell - I would nip that shit in the bud, to be fair.

You've said this is the first time you've been upset at your girlfriend. I think upon reflection you might see how she has done some things you've just "let slide" as it could be early days.

I have been in a relationship similar to what you are describing and a lot of what you've said is just ringing alarm bells.

 

[Terramax]

snip

It's got nothing to do with race. I've been in the same situation with women from other countries.

But, if you really want to know, she's 50/50 Japanese. Not literally, but whilst she bares certain typical Japanese mentalities, she is also much more open minded and liberal to the average Japanese person.

And, to be honest, I'd say you're wrong about relationships being more intact in Japan. They really aren't. A lot of families are simply together more out of convenience and tradition, rather than out of love. I could write a small essay about it, but I'd rather not. Things are certainly different here, but aren't better by any stretch.

 

[Terramax]

Refusing to kiss her, even. That struck me as kind of odd. How can you refuse to kiss your partner and not expect them to feel bad about that? Kissing is a display of affection after all, not like sex.

I didn't refuse to kiss her. It was that I refused to take the next step i.e. tongues, foreplay, etc, which would then lead into sex.

I understand she felt rejected. My reason for this topic isn't about why she was angry. I know the reason. The advice I'm asking for is how I can say 'no' without it coming to this.

And, yeah, again, it's frustrating that GFs feel it right to reject kisses when they're angry with their partner, but that's another thing a man isn't allowed to do, it would seem.

 

[Abomination]

snip

It's got nothing to do with race. I've been in the same situation with women from other countries.

You misunderstand. I was talking about culture, not race. Only from the race did I assume culture.

And, to be honest, I'd say you're wrong about relationships being more intact in Japan. They really aren't. A lot of families are simply together more out of convenience and tradition, rather than out of love. I could write a small essay about it, but I'd rather not. Things are certainly different here, but aren't better by any stretch.

Again, you misread. I said "relationship gender roles" being intact. That doesn't mean relationships are intact, just the stereotypical roles the genders play in a romantic relationship are being adhered to more in Japan than the West.

Do you think it's her culture that makes her that way or do you think it's just a personality trait of her's?

 

[Terramax]

Do you think it's her culture that makes her that way or do you think it's just a personality trait of her's?

Neither. It's a trait I see in many women from various races (which I'm using in the same context as culture).

I'm not just talking about a problem specifically with my current partner, but saying no to women in general.

 

[Abomination]

Do you think it's her culture that makes her that way or do you think it's just a personality trait of her's?

Neither. It's a trait I see in many women from various races (which I'm using in the same context as culture).

I'm not just talking about a problem specifically with my current partner, but saying no to women in general.

I've only had a similar problem with two women out of... er, a lot (that I can remember) so I'd say it's not so much women in general as some specific women. Just in my experience it was always with women of Asian ethnicity, hence why I figured it could be a cultural thing in your case.

You are right in that it's always considered fine for a woman to decline a male sexual advances in any scenario but it's a bit of an oddity for a male to decline a woman. If that's a matter of men being hard-wired into wanting intercourse more often than women and the social stigma forming based on that or if it's something else entirely is up to folks with Dr. in front of their name - not me.

As for dealing with the problem it's something you'll have to confront directly. If she thinks she can set terms by demanding you have intercourse with her ("turn down her kisses" my arse) whenever she wants that will likely spill over into other aspects of your relationship.

I can only imagine the uproar if the situation was reversed, and for that reason her behavior is unacceptable - unless you're willing to bare it - of course - and all the other behaviors that might spawn from it setting precedent.

If you're not able to confront her about it and if it ends your relationship then that's for the best.

 

[manic_depressive13]

You think men don't sulk when they are refused by their partners? Some people take it well, other people take it personally. Don't turn it into women having a "right to refuse" which men don't have. Just explain that it's nothing personal.

 

[TeamDei]

It's a self-image thing by both genders.

Regardless if you're male or female, if your physical advances are rejected, you might start to wonder things.
(Am I ugly? Do I smell/offend? Are they being pleased by someone/something else? Do they not want me?)

A physical rejection (especially within a monogamous relationship) is usually taken personally.

To avoid this, just communicate with your partner. Let them know that they are desired by you and you do find them attractive.

I'd also recommend a relationship counselor to help you with this; they've done more research on the topic than anyone on the forums, and their aid will probably have a greater effect.

 

[Terramax]

Thanks for the advice guys. Trust me when I say it's hardly possible to reassure my GF anymore than I do that she's beautiful in every sense. I remind her constantly. Which is what baffles me more. I will also take the advice to speak to her directly about it, when the time is right.

captcha: It happens

Oh, yes, it does.