School shootings in America (and a wee bit help with homework!)

[Specter_]

My short answer would be:

America is a large country and because of that it naturally has a lot of people; if you also think about how it is also the largest country in the world that legalizes fire-arms to the average citizen, then it isn't all that surprising that gun-crimes are more common than any other non-third world country.

In relation specifically to schools: guns are an efficient weapon. You are much less likely to stand up to somebody who can kill you from across a room than a knife wielding person who has to be fast and close to you. As a result, a person who wants to hurt other students and such is much more likely to do so if they have access to a fire-arm than a a tool/weapon that requires being in close proximity, it's more dangerous for others and safer for them.

This.

Addition:
Even with the school shootings making major news around the globe, pupils in the US are still safer inside schools than outside. If you've got some time, read "Dan Gardner - Risk: The science and politics of fear". It might help you with the essay as it covers school shootings as well as other hyped news-stories.

You should read it even if you don't have time, because it's an amazing work on how our mind works

 

[TheHorizon]

Huh... funny.

My teacher made us do work on the exact opposite... well... sort of.
On how authorities have been going crazy revoking almost all student rights since the Columbine shootings. Maybe you could throw her/him a curve by putting that kind of spin on it.

 

[Necrophagist]

Students have almost no rights in public schools. In fact, it may be due to the entitlement of school kids that there is so much tension. Why not uniforms? What makes you think you have the RIGHT to wear what you want? What makes you think you have the RIGHT to leave campus whenever you want? What makes you think you have the RIGHT to say and do what you want in a public school?

I have a skewed view on the subject. I'm in the process of becoming a public school educator.

 

[PirateKing]

Hmm... If any of you guys watched "Bowling for Columbine",

Do you agree with him? Or do you find him a bit exaggerated?

I just saw that the other day. Best documentary I've ever seen.
That movie sums up my opinion on this subject pretty well.

 

[KaZZaP]

I'm sure its been said before in here but I gotta say the right to bear arms is just a remnant from revolutionary war days, it has no real meaning today. Its to prevent the English from coming and taking you guys over.... I think your safe on that one. But you people need guns to protect yourselves from the people with guns....right?

 

[GothmogII]

Students have almost no rights in public schools. In fact, it may be due to the entitlement of school kids that there is so much tension. Why not uniforms? What makes you think you have the RIGHT to wear what you want? What makes you think you have the RIGHT to leave campus whenever you want? What makes you think you have the RIGHT to say and do what you want in a public school?

I have a skewed view on the subject. I'm in the process of becoming a public school educator.

I'd ask you your own questions in reverse, why should you have to wear an uniform, who are you to say someone -can't- wear what they like, or that you can't leave the area when and if you so choose?

And...I understand what you're saying I think, that's an odd thing about educational systems...presumably you're in school in order to be taught how to become a functioning member of society, as such many of the rights you would have in such society are curtailed...you can't talk when you want, go to the bathroom when you want, stand up and walk around when you want, and etc. Actually...at first I though this was simply to teach students about how to act, in order to receive those rights...however I soon came to the conclusion that it's little more than an act of control on the part of the faculty/teachers and not some grand plan to educate you on this aspect of your life. Now...this is not essentially a bad thing, that is, if you aren't taught to act in a responsible manner, then how can you be afforded the rights as an adult? However, doesn't that defeat the purpose of those same rights in the first place?

However...if we go by that logic...why is bullying so accepted? I mean...in the 'adult' world, pushing someone around, beating them up etc. would count as assault, and yet within the school system it's accepted as 'toughening you up' because the world is a violent place yadda yadda. And then people have the indignity to be surprised and outraged when someone gets pushed around too much and takes it out on their peers. And be sure, I'm not saying that when someone does react violently like that, that it's the right thing for them to do, or that their victims 'had it coming', I just mean...what the hell did you expect?

 

[Necrophagist]

Students have almost no rights in public schools. In fact, it may be due to the entitlement of school kids that there is so much tension. Why not uniforms? What makes you think you have the RIGHT to wear what you want? What makes you think you have the RIGHT to leave campus whenever you want? What makes you think you have the RIGHT to say and do what you want in a public school?

I have a skewed view on the subject. I'm in the process of becoming a public school educator.

I'd ask you your own questions in reverse, why should you have to wear an uniform, who are you to say someone -can't- wear what they like, or that you can't leave the area when and if you so choose?

And...I understand what you're saying I think, that's an odd thing about educational systems...presumably you're in school in order to be taught how to become a functioning member of society, as such many of the rights you would have in such society are curtailed...you can't talk when you want, go to the bathroom when you want, stand up and walk around when you want, and etc. Actually...at first I though this was simply to teach students about how to act, in order to receive those rights...however I soon came to the conclusion that it's little more than an act of control on the part of the faculty/teachers and not some grand plan to educate you on this aspect of your life. Now...this is not essentially a bad thing, that is, if you aren't taught to act in a responsible manner, then how can you be afforded the rights as an adult? However, doesn't that defeat the purpose of those same rights in the first place?

However...if we go by that logic...why is bullying so accepted? I mean...in the 'adult' world, pushing someone around, beating them up etc. would count as assault, and yet within the school system it's accepted as 'toughening you up' because the world is a violent place yadda yadda. And then people have the indignity to be surprised and outraged when someone gets pushed around too much and takes it out on their peers. And be sure, I'm not saying that when someone does react violently like that, that it's the right thing for them to do, or that their victims 'had it coming', I just mean...what the hell did you expect?

It's a part of the Social Contract - In America, as much as we tout our freedoms, we give up a degree of our liberties and self-determination in order to participate in society. We join homeowners' associations to ensure we live in an appealing neighborhood with the sacrifice of being able to make changes to our homes as we choose. We join a job that demands we look and act a certain way (sometimes even outside a work environment) in exchange for money and security.

In schools, teaching and socializing are but two functions. Schools are also day-care systems for parents so they can have time away and be able to work. Hence schools take on a "parent" role that raises kids 6 hours out of the day. Any parent will tell you that boundaries and discipline are an important part of parenting. You can't allow your kids to raise themselves without boundaries, so why should schools?

I believe that schools should take a hard line against bullying. But the problem is, how is bullying defined? My friends and I gave eachother crap every day in school - was that bullying? Is slapping a friend on the forehead when he says something stupid bullying? What about sexual harassment against gay students? What about insults against non-religious students because their parents have taught them that atheists are going to Hell? What about a teacher who says "all communists are evil and should be killed." Is he bullying someone in the classroom who holds communist ideals?

There is much more grey to this debate than most will admit.

 

[Nutcase]

In 1997 UK assumed one of the most repressive gun stances in the western world. In short, everything was banned and even their Olympic shooters had to move abroad or quit.

So after 10+ years, everything must be greatly improved there, no?

UK shadow home secretary David Davis, 2008:
"We need sustained action to tackle the other 99.96% of this serious problem, bearing in mind that gun violence has increased four-fold over the last 10 years."
http://tinyurl.com/dyyto8

Oops.

The only driving forces behind "gun control" I can discern are blind, irrational fear towards firearms, and the love of power and control that some people have. I doubt it even matters that much to the latter group whether their target is firearm owners, gamers or people buying indecently shaped cucumbers at the grocery store. As long as someone else's personal freedom is compromised, they get their jollies.

The rising gun crime in the UK despite the ban is not an anomaly. Whenever you look at actual statistics, versus propaganda like Bowling for Columbine, you see that gun control is - at best - futile.

The majority of Swiss males have an assault rifle at home, courtesy of the Swiss Army. The Finns have a ton of private firearms. If firearms are a threat to public order, why haven't these people all shot each other by now?

 

[Jeronus]

Everyone blames easy access to guns and a society that encourages violence but the parents of these gun toting students haven't been mentioned much. I believe parents should take active steps to ensure that their child is psychologically sound. If your kid has a tough day at school, ask them about it or at least try to comfort them. Also spy on your kids every once in awhile, you may find evidence of unsound mind or evil intentions. All I am saying is that if your kids are acting strange then don't be afraid to invade their privacy. It's your duty as a parent.

 

[Cucumber]

Awesome, I'm really getting a different view on this matter. This'll help me a lot!

Just a small, quick summarization of opinions:

- Some people believe that the 'large' amounts of gun-violence is caused by sloppy gun-control. However, others believe that won't do the trick, seeing as this has been done before without satisfying results.

- Maybe more school shootouts is needed so they learn the hard (and only) way? Or is this just brutal and inhumane?

- It might as well just have been school STABouts, but since the gun is more effective, that's the commonly used one. If guns weren't available, they might have used other weapons?

- The media is blamed for spreading fear through the population, thus creating a larger need for self-protective firearms?

- Some people argument that carrying firearms for protective reasons is plain stupid, seeing as they only should them against other firearms?

- One of the reasons for why it's frequents in schools could be that the student background is so diverse, that any situation is more likely to occur.

- The constitutions reasons for carrying firearms is useless nowadays. It was written when the British army was having a tea party in the backyard.

- This is bound to happen in a country in which ignorance doesn't having a hard time to blossom.

(I might have missed some, but this might be a small outline of different opinions)

Feel free to add to this discussion, the diversity of opinions is astounding!

 

[santaandy]

I blame our culture in general. As the old saying goes, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." America does not have a lot of gun violence because there is a gun problem, America has a lot of gun violence because there is a violence problem.

Banning guns would neither change nor solve anything, and the idiots who want such things don't understand that. If a person really wants to commit a crime with a gun, are they really going to be worried about acquiring it legally? Obviously not. And if we run out of guns, won't they just use something else? We should work on eradicating the desire to commit acts of violence rather than futile-ly trying to ban the methods to carry out said desires, as bans are easily circumvented.

===

The lack of self-control and accountability is partly to blame, and the other half goes to our pansy hippy hugs-and-feelings-and-specialness culture. I wouldn't want us to live like Spartans, buy *my god* some people just go too far. While we can teach parents to care about and raise their kids well, we can not stop bullying and peer pressure anymore than we could stop the sun from rising.

We have taught our children to fear and whine rather than deal with stuff. Instead of turning them into whinging victims, we should teach them to be strong. Strong, emotionally healthy children don't go around shooting each other. When a child feels threatened, they need to be taught to stand up for themselves. And if that doesn't work, they need to learn to deal with it and let go of whining about it. They don't need someone *else* to make them safe, they need to feel like they are safe all on their own.

If you get in a fist fight, and you get beat up, whether it was fair or not *deal with it.* A good old-fashioned ass-kicking never caused anyone permanent damage. We are so afraid of the slightest bit of pain that we will go to extremes to avoid it rather than learning how to be strong and break through it. Extremes like being a victim or turning to guns rather than just learning to beat the bullies at their own games. You don't want to get beat up? Learn how to hold your own in a fight, and bullies won't pick on you. Violence over, problem solved. You don't want to get made fun of? Learn how to use words to disarm your opponent, or make them look like the idiot they are. Violence avoided, problem solved.

These measures are not going to turn into a round of brinkmanship, this is just how youths have been sorting stuff out for ages. Teach your kid to be a strong, emotionally healthy person and they will not have problems, nor will they turn into future serial killers.

 

[AntiAntagonist]

It's because of idiots who keep their bullets in the same place as their guns. (except for the one in the nightstand, under the kitchen table, and by the front door.)

That's one small apartment.

I once spoke with my uncle about breakups vis-a-vis mono. He said that it usually crops up in young people and that young people are the ones most likely to break up at any given time. If not for the (lack of) self control and amount hormones I'm sure we'd have lower violent crime stats.

 

[GothmogII]

It's because of idiots who keep their bullets in the same place as their guns. (except for the one in the nightstand, under the kitchen table, and by the front door.)

That's one small apartment.

I once spoke with my uncle about breakups vis-a-vis mono. He said that it usually crops up in young people and that young people are the ones most likely to break up at any given time. If not for the (lack of) self control and amount hormones I'm sure we'd have lower violent crime stats.

Maybe so...but no-one ever just cracks. That is...although there's plenty of stories about people just snapping and getting all shooty, it's usually something that's been building up in their heads over a long period of time and not a spur of the moment event.

 

[santaandy]

I don't see why everyone is pissed that this person is asking for help with their homework. OP's doing research, by interviewing us. Isn't interviewing a form of research, that thing students do when they get assignments?

To be fair, I must admit that coming in and presenting information for us to give our opinion on rather than asking for our opinion alone would have been better.

OP, if you use our info/quote us, would you share your paper with us when you receive your grade?

Thanks!

 

[AntiAntagonist]

It's because of idiots who keep their bullets in the same place as their guns. (except for the one in the nightstand, under the kitchen table, and by the front door.)

That's one small apartment.

I once spoke with my uncle about breakups vis-a-vis mono. He said that it usually crops up in young people and that young people are the ones most likely to break up at any given time. If not for the (lack of) self control and amount hormones I'm sure we'd have lower violent crime stats.

Maybe so...but no-one ever just cracks. That is...although there's plenty of stories about people just snapping and getting all shooty, it's usually something that's been building up in their heads over a long period of time and not a spur of the moment event.

I'd like to see some numbers on that. However hormonal stress can contribute to a break either at a moments notice or after that 'building up' period. 'The Final Straw', etc.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

FAIL! Gun control does little to curb gun violence - indeed, it creates a trend of not more gun violence, but more of it resulting in fatalities. Look up the numbers - gun control doesn't work.

EPIC FAIL

let's look at some crime statistics shall we?

first united states, which has very little gun control

Murders 16,204 [2nd of 49]
Murders with firearms 9,369 [1st of 36]

and the murder rate for united states

#24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people

btw that number is the rank they have for murders in the world

second is canada, which has strict gun control

Murders 523 [15th of 49]
Murders with firearms 144 [9th of 36]

and canada's murder rate
#44 Canada: 0.0149063 per 1,000 people

oh but you say "canada has less ppl in it, ok let's look at the united kingdom, which also has strict gun laws

Murders 1,201 [7th of 49]
Murders with firearms 14 [29th of 36]

the uk's murder rate

#46 United Kingdom: 0.0140633 per 1,000 people


hey wow those numbers are going down aren't they? why yes they are

now for further proof let's look at japan, which also has lots of ppl AND strict gun control

Murders 637 [22nd of 49]
Murders with firearms 47 [20th of 36]

and finally japan's murder rate

#60 Japan: 0.00499933 per 1,000 people


wow as gun control got more strict the amount of murders actually went down.

here's also the amount of murders by firearm
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms


here's a nice link, where i got my stats from, they come from 2002 HOWEVER the

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita


ok and even further proof of you being wrong, from the wikipedia article on murder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Demographics

Gun control advocates further point out that, unlike the United States, many European countries disallow gun ownership by private citizens but Switzerland has the least restrictive firearm laws and corresponding higher gun murder deaths. Canada introduced a comprehensive Firearms Certificate program in 1977, which was followed by a sharp decline in its homicide rate (and its firearm homicide rate) however firearm homicide rates have crept back up to pre-1977 levels by 2005 even though the overall rate remains less. Overall, the global pattern is too complex and, on average, the influence of both these factors may not be significant and could be more social, economic and cultural.

see notice that? it says as gun control gets more strict there are less deaths by guns and there's TONS of crime stats to back it up

here's even more from statistics canada
http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/legal01-eng.htm

Homicides || 2003 || 2004 || 2005 || 2006 || 2007
All methods || 549 || 624 || 663 || 606 || 594
Shooting || 161 || 173 || 223 || 190 || 188
Stabbing || 142 || 205 || 198 || 210 || 190
Beating || 121 || 137 || 144 || 119 || 116
Strangulation || 65 || 63 || 47 || 48 || 50
Fire || 12 || 13 || 10 || 12 || 4
Other methods ||26 || 20 || 26 || 14 || 19
Not known || 22 || 13 || 15 || 13 || 27

so next time you want to try and spread some nra bs fud by saying gun control does not reduce murder and other gun related violence, please do so, i'll go cull even more crime stats to prove how wrong you are

edit - made the char a bit more readable