Sci-fi technology not used to its potential in sci-fi settings

[CrystalShadow]

The only flaw here, borg weirdness aside is that it is established over and over that you can't transport through enemy shields...
So you have to take down the enemy's shields anyway, and if you have to do that, how is transporting explosives all that much more effective than just firing a torpedo.

True (well, odd that everyone's shields always block transport, but still). Lots of times someone does teleport onto enemy ships or facilities, though.

True, but you'll see they almost always hand-wave it. (Some technobabble reason why they could do it through shields anyway, only doing it towards the end of a prolonged battle, other stuff)
It's also worth noting in combat you can't beam through the enemy's shields, but you also can't beam through your own shields.
This comes up at times too. It means if you attempt to use transporters as a weapon, you have to drop your own defences momentarily every time you attack.
Not to mention, the series always shows combat at absurdly close ranges, but from other sources transporter range is supposedly much shorter than the range of most weapons. (eg. You could fire a torpedo at someone long before they'd ever be close enough to beam aboard your ship.)

You have to wonder about some of the races with more advanced tech though. We see that both the Borg and the Jem Hadar/dominion can completely ignore this limitation...

So why do they not use such tactics more often then?

 

[small]

So called "science fiction" is often really bad at that. There's nothing wrong with making a silly magic in space story, but at least admit that's what you are doing. Stick robots and space in it, and it is "sci-f", science optional. Exploring the ways this new science would affect things is very optional.

The replicators in star trek are never used sensibly. They constantly run into (or cause) "dampening fields" to stop their energy weapons from working, the Borg can adapt to energy weapons, but nobody replicates a Glock or other firearm.

No, that's not true. In a DS9 episode, someone on their spare time replicated a special firearm that teleported bullets to its target and could see through walls, so you could murder anyone on the station very easily. The Federation has the design for a while, but didn't make any using their perfect technology that could create one in minutes, because they weren't interested in snipers being able to see through walls, or take out targets from perfect concealment. Yeah, not a big fan of DS9.

OT: Gotta go with the boltgun/bolter from Warhammer 40,000. I've seen the real life Gyro-jet "gun" and while it's a piece of crap, it is ridiculously easy to make. All it needs is for a competent engineering team to show it some love. I've no idea what could possibly be so complicated about bolters that only the Emperor's Finest, the Astartes, get them. We invented the Gyro-jet in the 1960s! We still don't have anything close to a man-portable, infantry use laser rifle. The lasgun is WAY more complex than what amounts to a model rocket engine behind a small explosive. The Russians and Germans invented small-caliber rifle ammunition with an explosive tip in the 1930s. It's terrifying and horrendously unethical, but it works. It doesn't require anything even remotely close to the tech base a laser does. My point is, you give every guardsman or woman a boltgun and the 40k universe would be devoid of aliens and heretics in a matter of weeks. Plus, Imperial Guard players would be laughing all the way to the game store.

The bolter is a bit more complicated than that, and it's mentioned that it's the maintenance and logistics that are the problem. It's mentioned over and over that lasguns will keep working despite more or less anything, they don't require particularly skilled users or facilities to keep them running. Also, a bolter won't work without the right type of ammunition, but a las weapon can be charged from any power source.

officially that rifle in DS9 never went into service but you can be damn sure they used it for black ops

 

[Thaluikhain]

officially that rifle in DS9 never went into service but you can be damn sure they used it for black ops

Did they ever say that, though? Just being the blindingly obvious doesn't seem to be enough.

Hell, if the gun was too warlike, just take the thing that lets you see through walls, plenty of non-violent uses for that.

 

[moosemaimer]

It is our loading program. We can load anything from clothes, to weapons, to training simulations. Anything we need.

Just not body armor. You get shot, that's on you.

 

[small]

officially that rifle in DS9 never went into service but you can be damn sure they used it for black ops

Did they ever say that, though? Just being the blindingly obvious doesn't seem to be enough.

Hell, if the gun was too warlike, just take the thing that lets you see through walls, plenty of non-violent uses for that.

didnt directly say but the federation does have a dark side with groups like section 31

 

[Thaluikhain]

It is our loading program. We can load anything from clothes, to weapons, to training simulations. Anything we need.

Just not body armor. You get shot, that's on you.

Or better than early 21st century weapons.

didnt directly say but the federation does have a dark side with groups like section 31

No evidence that they aren't incompetent either, though.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I don't feel like you can just replicate something as complex as a whole spaceship, it leaves no room for error for something to go wrong.

I mean you point out yourself, food doesn't taste right from the replicators. You could say the technology was similar to the teleporters, but even that's a highly complex piece of machinery and even then it doesn't work right.

Especially during a war, I don't know if I would feel comfortable sliding out into the vacuum of space in a replicated ship.

ironically that's the point of most of the TNG tech, it is replicated, then hand assembled. (in one ep they replicated a new part for a Romulan ship)

that's done by writers, not a limit of the technology.

Replicators is totally my big one. if they can transport a human intact there is pretty much nothing a replicator can't make.

I mean, replicating the parts and assembling it by hand, I can dig that. That's how I would want it.

But again, that transport technology is so finicky. I don't even think their aware that every time they beam someone they're killing that person and making a copy. (I'm with Lt. Barclay, fuck the transporters)

 

[Thaluikhain]

I mean, replicating the parts and assembling it by hand, I can dig that. That's how I would want it.

But again, that transport technology is so finicky. I don't even think their aware that every time they beam someone they're killing that person and making a copy. (I'm with Lt. Barclay, fuck the transporters)

Or not killing the person, or making two copies, like what happened to Riker once.

Now, get your best soldier, and make a zillion copies of him or her (one fanatical enough not to mind being copied).

Or, transport someone away, but without doing anything to the original. You've got someone to interrogate, but nobody knows they are missing because they aren't.

 

[Benpasko]

Gonna go to a different place than most posters in this thread and say Attack on Titan.

The grappling hooks are completely unjustifiable. Their existence shows that humans know how to pressurize gas as fuel, create advanced ballistics, advanced motorized winch systems, and a million other things. But none of that knowledge gets applied, and they still have shitty medieval cannons and ride horses. I stopped watching basically when the scout corps is out in the field, and they're like "Our horses can't outrun these titans!"

These motherfuckers are getting killed because they live in a world where engineers, scientists, and soldiers ONLY care about grappling hooks.

Seriously, the winch system alone inside of the hook means that they could have motor vehicles, but decided not to. Their cannons are too inaccurate to ever use on titans, but they have grappling hooks that can stick into stone from over 100 yards with perfect accuracy.

And it's not like the maneuvering gear is some mystery science they don't understand, they're able to create custom practice rigs and stuff.

The only counterpoint I've heard is something mumbled about "limited resources", but even if that were the case, fancy grappling hooks are possible the worst place to invest your limited resources I've ever heard. How about a bigger cannon that can decapitate a titan?

 

[Hoplon]

I mean, replicating the parts and assembling it by hand, I can dig that. That's how I would want it.

But again, that transport technology is so finicky. I don't even think their aware that every time they beam someone they're killing that person and making a copy. (I'm with Lt. Barclay, fuck the transporters)

Sure, but why not replicate the hull on to the frame? no plates or joins or riveting etc, same for the space frame, single ideally stitched together piece at the scale of molecules.

I'm not saying it should pop out instantly like a cup of coffee or some hot earl grey, but you know over 14 days or something. big station parked in the same orbit as mercury could soak up peta watts of solar power and tonnes of matter, all you would need to build anything and fuel it up.

 

[slacker09]

Really the best example are transporters, unless the enemy is said to have something that jams transimission every fight should be:
step 1: Get a nuke.
step 2: teleport it to middle of enemy's ship.
step 3: enjoy.

In Star Trek you can't beam through shields, either yours or theirs. So both ships would need their shields to be down before that worked.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I mean, replicating the parts and assembling it by hand, I can dig that. That's how I would want it.

But again, that transport technology is so finicky. I don't even think their aware that every time they beam someone they're killing that person and making a copy. (I'm with Lt. Barclay, fuck the transporters)

Sure, but why not replicate the hull on to the frame? no plates or joins or riveting etc, same for the space frame, single ideally stitched together piece at the scale of molecules.

I'm not saying it should pop out instantly like a cup of coffee or some hot earl grey, but you know over 14 days or something. big station parked in the same orbit as mercury could soak up peta watts of solar power and tonnes of matter, all you would need to build anything and fuel it up.

And I would be fine if they did that with the proper time it would take for it to be proven safe, and that would take a few years at least. The studies and tests.

But if we're talking in the middle of the dominion wars, to just start pumping out ships without any of that... I mean christ sake, the loses the Federation were taking were already extremely heavy. Last thing they need is to be killing their own troops on potentially faulty ships.

Someone else said they could mass produce weaker ships, god damn it, federation troops are cannon fodder. It might of been fine for the jem'hadar, but NOT the Federation.

 

[Hoplon]

I mean, replicating the parts and assembling it by hand, I can dig that. That's how I would want it.

But again, that transport technology is so finicky. I don't even think their aware that every time they beam someone they're killing that person and making a copy. (I'm with Lt. Barclay, fuck the transporters)

Sure, but why not replicate the hull on to the frame? no plates or joins or riveting etc, same for the space frame, single ideally stitched together piece at the scale of molecules.

I'm not saying it should pop out instantly like a cup of coffee or some hot earl grey, but you know over 14 days or something. big station parked in the same orbit as mercury could soak up peta watts of solar power and tonnes of matter, all you would need to build anything and fuel it up.

And I would be fine if they did that with the proper time it would take for it to be proven safe, and that would take a few years at least. The studies and tests.

But if we're talking in the middle of the dominion wars, to just start pumping out ships without any of that... I mean christ sake, the loses the Federation were taking were already extremely heavy. Last thing they need is to be killing their own troops on potentially faulty ships.

Someone else said they could mass produce weaker ships, god damn it, federation troops are cannon fodder. It might of been fine for the jem'hadar, but NOT the Federation.

Sure, but i'm talking about doing it at the start of TNG. Dominion Wars are a decade off.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I mean, replicating the parts and assembling it by hand, I can dig that. That's how I would want it.

But again, that transport technology is so finicky. I don't even think their aware that every time they beam someone they're killing that person and making a copy. (I'm with Lt. Barclay, fuck the transporters)

Sure, but why not replicate the hull on to the frame? no plates or joins or riveting etc, same for the space frame, single ideally stitched together piece at the scale of molecules.

I'm not saying it should pop out instantly like a cup of coffee or some hot earl grey, but you know over 14 days or something. big station parked in the same orbit as mercury could soak up peta watts of solar power and tonnes of matter, all you would need to build anything and fuel it up.

And I would be fine if they did that with the proper time it would take for it to be proven safe, and that would take a few years at least. The studies and tests.

But if we're talking in the middle of the dominion wars, to just start pumping out ships without any of that... I mean christ sake, the loses the Federation were taking were already extremely heavy. Last thing they need is to be killing their own troops on potentially faulty ships.

Someone else said they could mass produce weaker ships, god damn it, federation troops are cannon fodder. It might of been fine for the jem'hadar, but NOT the Federation.

Sure, but i'm talking about doing it at the start of TNG. Dominion Wars are a decade off.

Then they could probably get away with it. Probably.

I doubt the engineers would be to happy about it though, nothing quite beats the humanoid touch.

 

[ForumSafari]

My real question was why didn't the SGC try and find a way to repurpose the staff weapons in some way. They may not be accurate or shoot fast, but they are plentiful so using something like a gatling gun for rapid fire support and suppression fire. Hell, given the slapped together nature of the 303 I'm surprised they didn't do that with staff cannons. Wouldn't work for a primary weapon, but it sure would work as a secondary one.

The problems with Staff weapons are explained in the clip I assume you've seen but that I've attached below. Basically there's nothing staff weapons do better than human weaponry, even a staff gatling gun wouldn't be any more efficient than the kind of weaponry we can currently field in the same category. I mean, why would you use a staff gatling gun when you've got the ability to mount far more accurate CIWS style miniguns or field something like the warthog. They're heavy, inaccurate, not all that powerful, difficult to rearm and difficult to aim. Even a modified and hybridised version would offer no reward and considerable drawbacks.

 

[Zontar]

I mean, why would you use a staff gatling gun when you've got the ability to mount far more accurate CIWS style miniguns or field something like the warthog. They're heavy, inaccurate, not all that powerful, difficult to rearm and difficult to aim. Even a modified and hybridised version would offer no reward and considerable drawbacks.

The problem I have is that they never even try to find a use for the weapons, and its not as if they can just call in a CIWS or a bunch of other equipment due to the nature of the SGC (it still amazes me that no one thought 'hey, why is there enough equipment and manpower going into NORAD to fight a war that never seems to come out?' It's not like the base is in the middle of nowhere). There's also the expense to think about, Staff weapons may be inaccurate, but they are powerful in a brute force type of way. For suppressive fire purposes something that uses their sheer numbers would be effective at the role, and would also be both cheaper then the earth equivalent and wouldn't cause accountants earth-side to ask 'where did that go?'. And hell, the RoF and accuracy problems of staff weapons seem more a result of their design then components, cannibalizing their parts into new designs should have at least been attempted, yet no mention of it is ever made.

For god sake, Teal'c took down an Al'kesh with a light staff canon. Given the range, power output and numbers of those things they manage to steal, why did they never build AA turrets with those things? They may not have been too effective when on their own, but a battery using a dozen would sure hurt a Ha'Tak's shields. With how many of those things Earth comes across that they could steal I'm surprised no one ever thought about the fact they could be used as a decent, cheap and pretty effective line of defence.

It's as if the writers forgot that the war with the Goa'uld was an actual war, one for survival no less, and that in wartime many new ideas are put on the table and tested. Instead we have a part of the military budget for the program investigating the properties of plants which should have been relegated to a university, laboratory or pharmaceutical company, eating away at the very limited budget the program had.

 

[Albetta]

Play, or at least read through Eclipse Phase. Its a apocalyptic, trans-humanist RPG set in the near(ish) future. The PDFs are freely available here:

https://robboyle.wordpress.com/eclipse-phase-pdfs/

 

[ForumSafari]

The problem I have is that they never even try to find a use for the weapons, and its not as if they can just call in a CIWS or a bunch of other equipment due to the nature of the SGC (it still amazes me that no one thought 'hey, why is there enough equipment and manpower going into NORAD to fight a war that never seems to come out?' It's not like the base is in the middle of nowhere).

The main limiter of staff weapons is that it's stated that humanity can't replicate the nahqahdah batteries that they use, meaning any attempt to repurpose a staff weapon is temporary at best. I don't have a problem with them investigating heavier versions of this technology like the versions used by the ha'tak class but a man portable staff weapon is a throwaway weapon which would be far more complex to make and maintain than a crate of bullets.

There's also the expense to think about, Staff weapons may be inaccurate, but they are powerful in a brute force type of way. For suppressive fire purposes something that uses their sheer numbers would be effective at the role, and would also be both cheaper then the earth equivalent and wouldn't cause accountants earth-side to ask 'where did that go?'. And hell, the RoF and accuracy problems of staff weapons seem more a result of their design then components, cannibalizing their parts into new designs should have at least been attempted, yet no mention of it is ever made.

The other problem is that staff weapons simply aren't that effective. People in the show are frequently seen getting up and walking away after staff blasts. Again, staff weapons look more impressive but between their limited fire capacity, the fact that they're just not very good and the fact that the US military can send through any equipment it wants and write it off as a training supply or R&D they simply don't offer an advantage. Bear in mind that even a staff-derived weapon would need to be manufactured and written off, if you think disappearing a crate of javelins is hard try introducing plasma weapons to companies, the very first thing they'll ask is where the designs come from. You also then need to completely retool their production lines to produce staffcarbines and investigate nahqahdah battery production.

All this or a hundred thousand P90 rounds and two hundred shoulder fired launchers marked off for reservist training.

To be honest if you want to see technology that's under-weaponised in SG1 try looking at the stargates themselves and the ring teleporters. There's some utterly horrifying things you can do with those without even going in to the nonlethal applications. If you've ever played 40K think portable webway portals and warp cannons.

 

[Zontar]

Snip

You make some good points, but it's still surprising that for a series that was so genre savy compared to other sci-fi shows they never even tried to find a use for the staff weapons they had laying around. Hell, replacing their batteries shouldn't be an issue, by the time any staff-based earth weapons would have been depleted they'd probably have more then enough batteries left to replenish them from dead Jaffa.

And that still doesn't explain why they never looked into the staff cannon when it was (and even by the end of Atlantis still is) better then its Earth counterparts when it comes to AA. The lightest variation of it took down an Al'Kesh, yet Earth doesn't manage to get a decent planetary defence system until we found the Antarctic outpost? I know it's no Tollan Ion Cannon, but shouldn't the grand strategy for the war (something which had never actually been developed even after Earth was saved by the skin of our teeth) have been to steal as many of those as possible? Hell, maybe raid some factories to see what knowledge and equipment could be stolen.

That's all connected to by biggest gripe with the stargate series. I may love the show, but if you're going to have the premise be that its a war in space between modern US and friends against aliens, then it should be treated like a war. Even if fought in secret there really should have been a lot of things done differently. The most obvious one: stop telling everyone who you are and where Earth is.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

Snio

The dropship hit exposed piping within the outer shell of the complex, right under where Ripley uses the elevator to go into the hive. Bishop states that it was the crash that caused the processor to go critical and makes no mention of them shooting it or setting it on fire. I can't recall him saying at any point that the cooling systems had failed. It seemed that he was implying they were overwhelmed due to the severity of the crash and where it struck. The resin didn't coat everything and the blood doesn't seem viscous, so it could get behind everything and cause damage to piping or electrical equipment in the heart of the complex where the firefight took place. They also would likely have blocked off piping and vents with the resin. I thought the dropship was nuclear since everything in this movie was nuclear. If you activate the subtitles, Hick says she will blow the transaxle. Not sure what that's about with the grinding noise, so someone screwed up on that. It does sound like "You'll blow the transaxle" rather than "you've blown the transaxle."

They still could have used it as a stationary weapons platform. They were able to control the dropship by remote and it's implied that's typically done with the aid of the APC, so it may be possible that it could have been remotely controlled itself. It would have opened up a whole variety of tactics or at the very least defend Bishop when he's flying the dropship. Had it not been destroyed, they could have used it to retreat to the complex, send Bishop out to get the dropship then he'd use the APC interior as his base of operations rather than being the sole hope of the team without a weapon in the open.

The shotgun was effective. It saved Hudson's life when he was in the hive. You can hear him yelling at Hicks to get an alien off him, he succeeds at a range of over 8 feet, and that's why Hicks is supporting Hudson on the way out. Gorman's bullets can be seen bouncing off the head of an alien when they're cornered, so I'm not sure how effective it was. He emptied his clip and killed at most one. The other weapons wouldn't have been wielded by the marines (they already had enough to go between them with the exception of Gorman) but rather as traps. Tripwires or sensors attached to the triggers jury-rigged to the ventilation and maintenance shafts. The final confrontation with the horde would have gone very differently if they had.

If I recall, the acid blood was also supposed to act as a tranquilizer even if it didn't kill them. So if his arm didn't come off (which is weird because the same amount melted through two decks aboard the Nostromo) he would have been incapacitated.

Also, it might just have been the camera angles, but it looked like the door was the only reason they lowered the gun (and went forward before it was locked which seems like a no-no to me) and the inside was more than high enough for it.