Scientific and mathematical inaccuracies, misconceptions and errors that get under your skin

Recommended Videos

geizr

New member
Oct 9, 2008
850
0
0
ClockworkPenguin said:
Whenever people appeal to quantum mechanics to justify fruitloopery. 'quantum mechanics is counter intuitive therefore whatever garbage pops into my head'. Aaaaaaaaaagh!

Also, the entirety of this video.
OMFG! I got as far as 1:59 before I had to stop in disgust and physical pain at the level of flimflam this woman was pulling off. The problem is that people's mathematical and scientific understanding is woefully insufficient to see the slight-of-hand con see pulled off in her argument initial argument. She equated volume as mass through a popular-science misinterpretation of the expansion of the Universe and, then, did a fast hand-waving substitution to set mass = 0; she then pulled the same rapid slight-of-hand to say that zero times any number is the number itself (if you actually follow the strict math of what see is saying, as you all know, you get zero, nada, null, zilch; exactly the worth of homeopathy). If I was in that audience, I'm not sure if I would have started yelling at her or just walked out angry (not that I would be in that audience because I know that homeopathy is a load of bullshit-and-chips).

By the way, I'm a physics student doing thesis research involving Relativity. This video is just painfully disgusting.
 

SciMal

New member
Dec 10, 2011
302
0
0
BOOM headshot65 said:
I know of one peice of tech that is still about 5 years from being done that when completed will convert CO2 into Gasoline/diesel/jet fuel using hydrogen and solar energy. When that gets done, I say we can effectively kiss gas problems AND pollution problems goodby.
What I heard 6 years ago: "Soon catalytic converters will actually make the air cleaner as you drive!"

What I heard 3 years ago: "Soon we'll find a way around hydrogen fuel cell production energy costs!"

What I heard today: "Soon we'll be able to convert CO2 into Gasoline/Diesel/fuel using hydrogen and solar energy!"



Thermodynamics are a harsh mistress. ;-)

The minute any technology is produced that can capture enough solar energy to actually construct carbohydartes (octane) from CO2 and H2 (both extremely stable molecules), you'd be able to power the car with the solar cell itself.

Plus, we can already produce diesel and jet fuel using sunlight, H20, and CO2 - plants. :) They're between .1% and 8% efficient at capturing solar energy to fix carbon.

Solar, Wind, maybe Geothermal are the future. Nuclear power is also an option (whether Uranium or Thorium - we're not running out of either by a long shot), but it's not as efficient as Solar has the potential to be.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
8,687
0
0
Indecipherable said:
RJ 17 said:
How about the algebraic proof that 0.999(rep) = 1?

x = 0.999(rep)

multiiply both sides by 10

10x = 9.999(rep)

Subtract x (which is valued at 0.999(rep)) from both sides

9x = 9

Divide both sides by 9

x = 1
That's not a misconception which is what the thread is about.
It certainly is if you know the rules of math. As someone studying economics and finance, I'd imagine knowing a bit about math would come in handy.

Don't believe me? Well even if that "proof" was true, it'd be contradicting the misconception that 0.999(rep) represents as close as you can get to 1 without actually getting to 1, where as that "proof" shows that it indeed straight-up equals 1.

Which would you prefer to be wrong at? :p
 

BOOM headshot65

New member
Jul 7, 2011
939
0
0
Ascarus said:
BOOM headshot65 said:
yes, humans are adding to Global Warming with the bi-product of our industries, but we'll probably only end up making the next Ice Age occur 50ish years quicker then normal (remember, these things are 50,000+ years between one another). Human Contribution to global warming is... piss all, really.
source?
Thats not mine.

BOOM headshot65 said:
So very much this. I have no problem with going green for the sake of going green, but it pisses me off to no end when people are like "ZOMG, IF WE DONT START DRIVING ELECTRIC CARS, THE WORLD IS GOING TO CATCH ON FIRE!!" I have no problem with changing our ways, but I think alot of what people are trying to get us to do right now are ineffective or in some cases may actually be MORE damage to the enviornment (there is one of the latter that people are trying to do in my state).
i have to ask that if the only result of our actions to green the planet in the end only makes the planet healthier for future generations, is that really a bad thing?
Because there is such a thing as going overboard. For what I was talking about, in Kansas, there are environmental groups are trying to get control burning banned.


Control burning, AKA Prescribed burning, is the act of burning grassland when it is at a time that it can be controlled, meaning that it will not burn out of control at an unfortuante time, thus protecting property and lives. It also has the added effect of keeping invasive species out of the tallgrass ecosystem.

Burning creates tons of CO2, and the groups, namely the Sierra Club, want us to stop burning for that very reason, because it would "help the environment." What they dont know/refuse to believe? That stopping burning will destroy the last tallgrass prairie on the planet. So its basically a "damned if you do, damned if you dont." kind of thing.

The other one that gets my goat is the people who are like "Oh, you drive a pickup truck? Your are a horrible person and deserve your high-gas bill!!" without looking at the fact that I live on a farm out in the middle of nowhere where sometimes 4-wheel drive is needed to get around. THATS why I drive a truck.

But making it so people must sort thier trash and recycle? Sure, I have no problem with that.

I know of one peice of tech that is still about 5 years from being done that when completed will convert CO2 into Gasoline/diesel/jet fuel using hydrogen and solar energy. When that gets done, I say we can effectively kiss gas problems AND pollution problems goodby.
source?
Right here: Thanks go out to Sandia National Laboratories [http://phys.org/news178203219.html]

And this prototype is pretty small...imagine if they made one the size of an oil refinary. Again, we can kiss oil issues AND pollution issues goodby.

SciMal said:
What I heard 6 years ago: "Soon catalytic converters will actually make the air cleaner as you drive!"

What I heard 3 years ago: "Soon we'll find a way around hydrogen fuel cell production energy costs!"

What I heard today: "Soon we'll be able to convert CO2 into Gasoline/Diesel/fuel using hydrogen and solar energy!"
Read above. This one actually works. Its just really inefficient (which is the only reason it is not out yet: They want to try and get it to 10% efficientcy before building bigger ones)

Solar, Wind, maybe Geothermal are the future. Nuclear power is also an option (whether Uranium or Thorium - we're not running out of either by a long shot), but it's not as efficient as Solar has the potential to be.
Until we develop Nuclear Fusion as a viable power source, I am not going to be a fan of nukes, because while meltdowns are rare, they can be devestating and not worth the risk IMO. But I will totally agree with you on the others. I also think Clean Coal shouldnt be overlooked. I get my power from a Clean Coal planet: Powers cheap, and the plant is REALLY clean. They actually have a family park on thier property to prove how healthy it is, which is backed up by lack of soot, both inside and out.
 

Terminate421

New member
Jul 21, 2010
5,773
0
0
"Science has disproven all religions and I am right because its science which cannot be disproven!"

"Oh your catholic? So you must be a cave man who hates gays, technological advancements, science,and just about anything logical in our universe!"
 

Quadocky

New member
Aug 30, 2012
383
0
0
Shanicus said:
Global Warming is completely man made and IS KILLING THE ENVIRONMENT AND WE ARE ALL HORRIBLE PEOPLE FOR PRODUCING CARBON DIOXIDE AND SUFFOCATING MOTHER EARTH!
Actually you got it backwards, there is a bigger problem with people thinking that human beings have no influence upon the earth. This is what bothers me actually.

Yes the earth has its own natural processes but the idea that we as humans cannot effect the environment is simply untrue. One example being of when all the planes were grounded during the 9/11 attacks. The temperature did change quite a bit.

I am not disagreeing with the premise that its better for people to be more accurate in their complaints, but to outright dismiss the concern is irresponsible in my opinion because there is already quite a bit of misinformation out there.

Here have some obligatory article I have read recently that I thought was relevant.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/global-warmings-terrifying-new-math-20120719

Also one thing that has always annoyed me in terms of misconception and politics is the idea that "Both sides do it" as a way to dismiss actual concerns that may be leveled. This is usually in terms of the lack of objective analysis or the utter failure of the media to actually be objective. A recent elaboration on this can be noticed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPwG-NoiVgk
 

Calibanbutcher

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2009
1,702
8
43
Terminate421 said:
"Science has disproven all religions and I am right because its science which cannot be disproven!"

"Oh your catholic? So you must be a cave man who hates gays, technological advancements, science,and just about anything logical in our universe!"
Please don't forget:
"So you actually support an organization based on homophobe pedophiles following the whims of a senile old fart, which is based on a rabbi who lived 2000 years ago who got himself nailed to a cross for being a revolutionary for trying to change peoples views on scriptures written by donkey-farmers even further back, which you also see fit to devote your life to."
Yes, this was quite wordy and is lacking in humor, so, for good measure:
Whibbly-wobbly hubbabubbabubba daliem diegnos wuluwuluwulu.
 

SciMal

New member
Dec 10, 2011
302
0
0
BOOM headshot65 said:
And this prototype is pretty small...imagine if they made one the size of an oil refinary. Again, we can kiss oil issues AND pollution issues goodby.
Not quite...

Read above. This one actually works. Its just really inefficient (which is the only reason it is not out yet: They want to try and get it to 10% efficientcy before building bigger ones)
First, I'm giving you full kudos. I didn't know there was a working prototype, and let me be the first to admit that we can, indeed, eventually produce Diesel/Jet Fuel from sunlight and CO2.

However, it's not just "inefficient", it's VERY inefficient. Their current goal is to get to 2-3% efficiency, about the same as photosynthesis (which implies it's significantly less than their goal right now). To be viable, it would have to be 10%+.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but you're talking probably a 20-fold increase in efficiency, and their own timeline (which are always grossly underestimated by the inventors) put primetime viability at 15-20 years out from 2009, or 12-17 years from today (not just a couple).

Also, it doesn't make gasoline, diesel, or jet fuel. It makes syngas, which is half as energy dense as natural gas (which is significantly less energy dense than gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel).

It's the Syngas that then undergoes another process to be turned into diesel and jet fuel, but not gasoline. The Fischer-Tropsch process is between 25% and 50% efficient.

So you're taking solar energy, then converting 10% of that (assuming they get to that point) into Syngas. Then Syngas is churned at a rate of 50% efficiency to Diesel/Jet Fuel.

That's not even a 5% efficiency rate at capturing the energy from the Sun. That's worse than almost any photovoltaic cell on the market (some cells are getting upwards of 40% efficiency under ideal conditions).

My personal opinion is that it would make much more sense to further develop battery technology and mass-transit infrastructure (which the USA is in dire need of anyways) to be able to utilize the much more efficient PVC we have than trying to find a way to actually produce diesel for the majority of applications.

Until we develop Nuclear Fusion as a viable power source, I am not going to be a fan of nukes, because while meltdowns are rare, they can be devestating and not worth the risk IMO. But I will totally agree with you on the others. I also think Clean Coal shouldnt be overlooked. I get my power from a Clean Coal planet: Powers cheap, and the plant is REALLY clean. They actually have a family park on thier property to prove how healthy it is, which is backed up by lack of soot, both inside and out.
I'm not sold on Clean Coal. Sequestring the CO2 and other gases underground solves the greenhouse gas problem, but it doesn't solve the supply problem. We've accessed pretty much all of the easy oil/coal reserves, and while I agree it might be a viable stopgap measure, I don't think it has longterm viability.

Kudos on the diesel production method, though. I wasn't aware it existed, even if it's a few decades from primetime (assuming it gets there).
 

Vivi22

New member
Aug 22, 2010
2,300
0
0
TwiZtah said:
Is there any other way to change your body mass? If i eat more calories than what I use in a day, I will gain weight, if I eat less, I will lose weight. Are you contradicting this?
Yes, I am absolutely saying that that is, if not totally incorrect, only a very small and not very important part of the process.

Fat storage is largely hormone driven. The hormone that largely drives this process is insulin. Insulin is what signals the muscle tissue to burn glucose, and it will store any excess as fat if glucose is too high for us to burn effectively since high blood glucose is dangerous and we don't burn it very fast.

So what actually happens for most people when they store fat is that they eat something which greatly spikes blood glucose like sugar or wheat, or to a lesser extent, starches, forces the pancreas to produce more insulin. The insulin directs the muscle tissue to burn the glucose, but since it doesn't burn it very quickly, if blood glucose went through a large spike, excess needs to be stored as fat to get it out of the blood stream. Making matters worse, if these glucose spikes happen frequently over long periods of time, the tissues of the body become resistant to insulin, meaning even more needs to be produced to burn any, and more will be stored as fat instead.

If you want to get the body to stop storing fat, you need to remove the foods which cause the fat storage in the first place so that the body isn't constantly storing glucose as fat. Keeping glucose levels managed also let's the body actually tap into those fat stores better when it actually needs the energy.

Moreover, calories in minus calories out is usually bad because when you cut back on calories and increase activity, the body will frequently respond by slowing it's metabolism, meaning that you burn even less than usual. The fact that calories in minus calories out doesn't work bears itself out frequently in clinical studies. There's a reason that any time calories are held constant among test subjects but people on low carb diets invariably lose more weight than people on low fat diets (which are necessarily high in carbs and thereby have a greater impact on blood glucose). And often people in these studies who are put on low carb diets lose more than the calories in minus calories out formula says they would, while the people on higher carb diets frequently fall below predicted weight loss.

If the formula had any real value it wouldn't be vastly different from the actual results a lot of the time, and a lot more people who try to lose weight wouldn't fail miserably following the advice of people who push this idea.

I understand why that formula has become popular: it seems logical and it's based on the common knowledge idea of how people get fat, ie: they eat too much and they're lazy. And I won't say that eating a lot of food won't make it difficult to lose weight. Even protein, despite having less of an impact on glucose than carbs, will have a negative impact on body weight in high enough quantities. And eating too much food too often means the body doesn't need to tap it's stored fat for energy. But for most people, it's not a simple matter of eating too much that causes weight gain. Glucose control is the actual driver of everything. Hell, glucose spikes also heavily drive appetite as anytime someone has a large spike, they'll almost inevitably have their blood sugar crash two hours later when the insulin has done it's job and then they're hungry all over again. That kind of blood sugar crash does not happen if someone eats a diet which keeps glucose levels at steady and reasonable levels.
 

Darknacht

New member
May 13, 2009
849
0
0
ClockworkPenguin said:
I to, used to think this, before it was violently beat out of me by said mathematician.
In computer science if you are using floating point numbers 1/0 = ∞ and -1/0 = -∞. A lot of stuff works much easier that way, don't let silly mathematicians beat useful ideas out of you, just make sure you use it correctly in the correct circumstance.
 

DustyDrB

Made of ticky tacky
Jan 19, 2010
8,365
3
43
Positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement (in the psychological sense). What people really mean to say is "reward" or "punishment", but they often get it wrong.
"Negative reinforcement" is simply taking away something to reinforce a certain behavior. There is also "Negative punishment", which involves taking something away to discourage a behavior.

Positive reinforcement and punishment work in the opposite way. You just add something to encourage or discourage a behavior, respectively. So when you spank your kid, it is not negative reinforcement. It is positive punishment, because you're adding the spanking to the situation.
 

TwiZtah

New member
Sep 22, 2011
301
0
0
Vivi22 said:
TwiZtah said:
Is there any other way to change your body mass? If i eat more calories than what I use in a day, I will gain weight, if I eat less, I will lose weight. Are you contradicting this?
Yes, I am absolutely saying that that is, if not totally incorrect, only a very small and not very important part of the process.

Fat storage is largely hormone driven. The hormone that largely drives this process is insulin. Insulin is what signals the muscle tissue to burn glucose, and it will store any excess as fat if glucose is too high for us to burn effectively since high blood glucose is dangerous and we don't burn it very fast.

So what actually happens for most people when they store fat is that they eat something which greatly spikes blood glucose like sugar or wheat, or to a lesser extent, starches, forces the pancreas to produce more insulin. The insulin directs the muscle tissue to burn the glucose, but since it doesn't burn it very quickly, if blood glucose went through a large spike, excess needs to be stored as fat to get it out of the blood stream. Making matters worse, if these glucose spikes happen frequently over long periods of time, the tissues of the body become resistant to insulin, meaning even more needs to be produced to burn any, and more will be stored as fat instead.

If you want to get the body to stop storing fat, you need to remove the foods which cause the fat storage in the first place so that the body isn't constantly storing glucose as fat. Keeping glucose levels managed also let's the body actually tap into those fat stores better when it actually needs the energy.

Moreover, calories in minus calories out is usually bad because when you cut back on calories and increase activity, the body will frequently respond by slowing it's metabolism, meaning that you burn even less than usual. The fact that calories in minus calories out doesn't work bears itself out frequently in clinical studies. There's a reason that any time calories are held constant among test subjects but people on low carb diets invariably lose more weight than people on low fat diets (which are necessarily high in carbs and thereby have a greater impact on blood glucose). And often people in these studies who are put on low carb diets lose more than the calories in minus calories out formula says they would, while the people on higher carb diets frequently fall below predicted weight loss.

If the formula had any real value it wouldn't be vastly different from the actual results a lot of the time, and a lot more people who try to lose weight wouldn't fail miserably following the advice of people who push this idea.

I understand why that formula has become popular: it seems logical and it's based on the common knowledge idea of how people get fat, ie: they eat too much and they're lazy. And I won't say that eating a lot of food won't make it difficult to lose weight. Even protein, despite having less of an impact on glucose than carbs, will have a negative impact on body weight in high enough quantities. And eating too much food too often means the body doesn't need to tap it's stored fat for energy. But for most people, it's not a simple matter of eating too much that causes weight gain. Glucose control is the actual driver of everything. Hell, glucose spikes also heavily drive appetite as anytime someone has a large spike, they'll almost inevitably have their blood sugar crash two hours later when the insulin has done it's job and then they're hungry all over again. That kind of blood sugar crash does not happen if someone eats a diet which keeps glucose levels at steady and reasonable levels.
Nothing contradicts calories in calories out, if I eat 10000 calories and don't do shit, I burn maybe 2000 calories, that's an excess of 8000, that doesn't just magically disappear and WILL be turned into fat. I agree with you about controlling your insulin, but you just cannot throw calories out of the calculation when people eat fourteen double big macs a day with supersize, they WILL get fat, and they will get fat because of the excess calories. The insulin spikes are a driving factor for how the body processes food and is only one process of many.
 

Vivi22

New member
Aug 22, 2010
2,300
0
0
TwiZtah said:
Nothing contradicts calories in calories out, if I eat 10000 calories and don't do shit, I burn maybe 2000 calories, that's an excess of 8000, that doesn't just magically disappear and WILL be turned into fat. I agree with you about controlling your insulin, but you just cannot throw calories out of the calculation when people eat fourteen double big macs a day with supersize, they WILL get fat, and they will get fat because of the excess calories. The insulin spikes are a driving factor for how the body processes food and is only one process of many.
Go back and read my post. I didn't say calories don't play a role, nor did I say eating excessively doesn't either. But they aren't the single largest driver in fat storage. Nor does the formula accurately predict weight gain or loss which further proves that it isn't driving fat storage. The reality is that for most people, food composition has a much larger impact on weight gain than quantity because the entire process is hormonally driven, and what we eat affects those hormones.

It's entirely possible to gain weight while working out more than the average person would simply by changing food composition and keeping total calories consumed and burned constant. It's also possible to cut calories, exercise more and lose little to no weight. People fail to achieve desired weight loss frequently on calorie restricted diets because they don't change diet composition sufficiently. Arguing for such a simplistic view of a complex biological system when it's proven unreliable at best is silly.

Humans don't burn all of the food we eat. We don't process it all the same way. Treating a calorie as a calorie regardless of the source is flat out stupid.
 

TwiZtah

New member
Sep 22, 2011
301
0
0
Vivi22 said:
TwiZtah said:
Nothing contradicts calories in calories out, if I eat 10000 calories and don't do shit, I burn maybe 2000 calories, that's an excess of 8000, that doesn't just magically disappear and WILL be turned into fat. I agree with you about controlling your insulin, but you just cannot throw calories out of the calculation when people eat fourteen double big macs a day with supersize, they WILL get fat, and they will get fat because of the excess calories. The insulin spikes are a driving factor for how the body processes food and is only one process of many.
Go back and read my post. I didn't say calories don't play a role, nor did I say eating excessively doesn't either. But they aren't the single largest driver in fat storage. Nor does the formula accurately predict weight gain or loss which further proves that it isn't driving fat storage. The reality is that for most people, food composition has a much larger impact on weight gain than quantity because the entire process is hormonally driven, and what we eat affects those hormones.

It's entirely possible to gain weight while working out more than the average person would simply by changing food composition and keeping total calories consumed and burned constant. It's also possible to cut calories, exercise more and lose little to no weight. People fail to achieve desired weight loss frequently on calorie restricted diets because they don't change diet composition sufficiently. Arguing for such a simplistic view of a complex biological system when it's proven unreliable at best is silly.

Humans don't burn all of the food we eat. We don't process it all the same way. Treating a calorie as a calorie regardless of the source is flat out stupid.
Yes, now you're bringing up points. Of course it's important where you get your calories from, sugar is bad, more complex carbs are better. There's a slew of hormones going around doing shit, you lift heavy weights, your metabolism will speed up to promote muscle growth. Doing anything at all will speed up your metabolism. So we can agree that calories in/out isn't the only driving factor, hormones and stuff do alot, but to completely disqualify calories from the debate is silly too.
 

Subscriptism

New member
May 5, 2012
256
0
0
MeChaNiZ3D said:
The misconception that the act of turning a lightbulb on or off causes such a spike in energy as to render it more wasteful than leaving it on for intervals of about 10 minutes. It makes genuine environmentally minded people seem like idiots when they suggest it to someone who knows otherwise, and compromises their own principles every other time.

But for the record, centrifugal force exists. In a physics setting, no, I do not think it should be used. But every other time, ffs, people know what it is and what it means.
Mythbusters did this, unless you are going to be back in 0.3 seconds or something it is more efficient to turn it off. (The energy used by the bulb in 0.3 seconds is equivalent to the energy spike when turned on)

Rogue 09 said:
This post reminded me of one that really bugs me.

The belief that blood is blue when it is inside a vein and only becomes red when it touches the oxygen outside of your body drives me batty.

The fact that they try to justify it with you after you stare at them like a moron makes it kinda worse...

"No, see, 'cause if you look at the vein... it's blue!"

Yep... you just used science.
THIS ONE, when I was in high school my friend had a full blown argument with his dumbshit PE teacher about this. She genuinely believed this and was teaching the whole class that this was true. He gave her conclusive evidence and she fucking kicked him out of the class.
 

Boba Frag

New member
Dec 11, 2009
1,288
0
0
SciMal said:
Boba Frag said:
SciMal said:
11) "Ancient" or natural cures for anything (especially herbal supplements). Yeah, sometimes people stumbled upon stuff. That's how we discovered aspirin. However, our ancestors also drank Mercury and shit on the walls of their buildings.
An entire thread devoted to inaccuracies, broad, sweeping generalisations, myths, misconceptions and general ignorance....

And you post that.

Cue me disregarding an otherwise decent argument.

Drinking Mercury generally precludes people from having descendants, as does poor personal hygiene.
No offense, but you're wrong.

Mercury isn't safe, and can cause sterility, but it's not instantly deadly. Hatters were, in part, driven mad because of chronic Mercury exposure in their craft and helped coin the term "Mad as a Hatter". Chinese women sometimes drank it as an abortifact. This is also assuming that the person didn't start drinking after they had kids.

And poor personal hygiene doesn't prevent you from having kids. It does, however, severely reduce your life expectancy. If it outright resulted in death and the preclusion of the next generation, all of the graffitti we've found in Pompeii where people marked where they shit on the walls was apparently a suicide note.
'No offense, but' is a big red flag for a douchey post, so I nearly didn't respond to that.

Are you completely unaware of irony?

OF COURSE Mercury is poisonous! It's a heavy metal! Even if you don't die, you soon will, of course I know that! Christ.

What I took issue with was your assertion that our ancestors drank it like Coke.
YOU are wrong in that. From your off hand dismissal of 'our ancestors' it seemed like it was time to start fighting back against what I perceived to be a gross misrepresentation of the past.

Your post didn't qualify the above historical examples, which fair play, sound reasonable, though I would like you to post your sources on that.
There's a LOT of graffitti in Pompeii- most of giving valuable insights into the Roman city's underbelly.

Anyway, I've made my point that you misunderstood my post completely, it happens.