Screwattack and Rooster Teeth are now one thing

[Drathnoxis]

My god, the logic hoops you're jumping through to try and win this argument are amazing. You're now applying a set of logic from one non-canon source to justify the logic in the game. That's just pure denial, right there. Especially since you ignored my point that Tifa, CANONICALLY, was beaten in a fist fight by Loz (though I got his name wrong in my previous post). So I guess in the Final Fantasy 7 universe, Loz's punches, which knocked Tifa out, are stronger than the sun exploding. Or that any attack in the game capable of knocking her out is stronger than the sun exploding. Man, why did anyone fear meteor doing paltry massive destruction to the planet? Why did Sephiroth even bother with it when he could just explode the sun, several times? Do you see the insanity you're trying to pass off as proof yet? At this point if you can't, I can't help you, but I would recommend maybe some kind of medication, or therapy.

The movie was set 2 years after the events of FF7, Tifa had been living in peace for that time and was most likely out of practice. How I interpret the games is that because of their near constant fighting, their skills and bodies were honed to an almost deity-like degree. Without the pressure of constant life or death struggles it's no surprise that Tifa's fighting prowess would deteriorate substantially. Therefore, Tifa's combat ability as of Advent Children is not a good representation of her combat ability during the fight with Sephiroth.

Not that I'm saying that Sephiroth's supernova attack literally destroys the solar system, it's pretty clear that the solar system still exists afterwards.

Edit: Also the movie sucked anyway.

 

[Kolby Jack]

My god, the logic hoops you're jumping through to try and win this argument are amazing. You're now applying a set of logic from one non-canon source to justify the logic in the game. That's just pure denial, right there. Especially since you ignored my point that Tifa, CANONICALLY, was beaten in a fist fight by Loz (though I got his name wrong in my previous post). So I guess in the Final Fantasy 7 universe, Loz's punches, which knocked Tifa out, are stronger than the sun exploding. Or that any attack in the game capable of knocking her out is stronger than the sun exploding. Man, why did anyone fear meteor doing paltry massive destruction to the planet? Why did Sephiroth even bother with it when he could just explode the sun, several times? Do you see the insanity you're trying to pass off as proof yet? At this point if you can't, I can't help you, but I would recommend maybe some kind of medication, or therapy.

The movie was set 2 years after the events of FF7, Tifa had been living in peace for that time and was most likely out of practice. How I interpret the games is that because of their near constant fighting, their skills and bodies were honed to an almost deity-like degree. Without the pressure of constant life or death struggles it's no surprise that Tifa's fighting prowess would deteriorate substantially. Therefore, Tifa's combat ability as of Advent Children is not a good representation of her combat ability during the fight with Sephiroth.

Not that I'm saying that Sephiroth's supernova attack literally destroys the solar system, it's pretty clear that the solar system still exists afterwards.

Edit: Also the movie sucked anyway.

The whole crux of his argument was that Supernova is LITERALLY the sun exploding, even though that makes absolutely no sense. It's not about how strong Tifa is or isn't. I don't really care about arguing that, because it's not something you can explicitly measure. That's why people get all whiny whenever a death battle featuring their favorite character comes out. The metrics are inconsistent and impossible to pin down.

Your point has no bearing on that conversation, especially since you acknowledge Supernova doesn't actually blow up the sun. Why even say it?

 

[Bat Vader]

Doesn't Screwattack also own Angry Video Game Nerd too or is James Rolfe just partnered with them? I would love to see AVGN guest star on some Rooster Teeth stuff.

 

[Randomosity]

Doesn't ScrewAttack and The Escapist have the same parent company?

OT: And now, we know for a fact that Yang vs Tifa Death Battle was rigged as fuck.

Considering that nothing that yang has ever done has comes anywhere close to the level of this:

And yet Tifa can survive that, yeah I would say that Death Battle (as we'll as Cloud vs. Link) is way off base. To a rather staggering degree in fact to be anything other than rigged.

Oh yes, how could she possibly survive an attack that deals damage in fractions and literally CAN'T KILL YOU?! I'm amazed at how the Tifa fanboys are such fanboys yet don't know the mechanics of one of the most famous attacks in the game. AMATEURS!

This is interesting news. I don't watch much SA stuff but maybe I'll check it out now. Who knows? I gave Funhaus a chance and that paid off very well.

Correction, it could not kill the FF7 cast. It seemed to be enough to wipe planets from the solar system and extinguish the sun. And seeing as how Death Battle likes to use destructive power vs. inanimate objects as evidence to measure strength (such as Yang's ability to take a punch that shatters a concrete building support), it should count just as much as any other illustration of power. In light of that, the assertion that Tifa is a glass cannon could not be more incorrect.

On a related note, it seems likely that Superman might meet his match in Sephiroth considering that Sephiroth is able to remove the sun from the equation.

Yeah, sure, it extinguished the sun. Which is why the sun still exists after the battle, or even during the multiple times he can use it in the fight. I mean, I guess I just didn't think about it at all!

Please, stop trying to justify this with nonsense. Supernova is NOT that powerful, it just LOOKS powerful. Tifa got beaten by Yaz in the movie, who just hit her really hard with his fist a few times. I don't know if Yang is legitimately stronger or not, but Tifa is not God. It'd be a close fight either way and your inane fanboy ramblings won't change that.

Did the Earth not continue to exist after the first Superman vs. Goku? Judging from the rematch setting it does seem to be the case. Would that not mean that the first fight never happened then where they split the planet? So why then does it apply to this fight, but not that one? The permanence of celestial bodies is clearly not a requirement or even a consideration when it comes to how Death Battle chooses to illustrate power. Never claimed Tifa was god. Just illustrated that she can survive an explosion from a supernova. May not qualify her as a god, but it certainly is not a feat I would use to brush her off as a "glass cannon".

Just pointing this out, but Superman wished earth back with the Dragon Balls before fight 2 started... So earth kinda was still destroyed from the first bout. As for the rest of the argument... Meh, I don't really care.

OT: Should be interesting to see where this goes. Some new content with a mix of both parties could be fun.

 

[MatParker116]

Doesn't Screwattack also own Angry Video Game Nerd too or is James Rolfe just partnered with them? I would love to see AVGN guest star on some Rooster Teeth stuff.

Believe it's a similar arrangement to Moviebob's, which should be interesting as RT has made a conscious effort to stay the fuck away from some of the subjects Bob covers.

 

[Drathnoxis]

My god, the logic hoops you're jumping through to try and win this argument are amazing. You're now applying a set of logic from one non-canon source to justify the logic in the game. That's just pure denial, right there. Especially since you ignored my point that Tifa, CANONICALLY, was beaten in a fist fight by Loz (though I got his name wrong in my previous post). So I guess in the Final Fantasy 7 universe, Loz's punches, which knocked Tifa out, are stronger than the sun exploding. Or that any attack in the game capable of knocking her out is stronger than the sun exploding. Man, why did anyone fear meteor doing paltry massive destruction to the planet? Why did Sephiroth even bother with it when he could just explode the sun, several times? Do you see the insanity you're trying to pass off as proof yet? At this point if you can't, I can't help you, but I would recommend maybe some kind of medication, or therapy.

The movie was set 2 years after the events of FF7, Tifa had been living in peace for that time and was most likely out of practice. How I interpret the games is that because of their near constant fighting, their skills and bodies were honed to an almost deity-like degree. Without the pressure of constant life or death struggles it's no surprise that Tifa's fighting prowess would deteriorate substantially. Therefore, Tifa's combat ability as of Advent Children is not a good representation of her combat ability during the fight with Sephiroth.

Not that I'm saying that Sephiroth's supernova attack literally destroys the solar system, it's pretty clear that the solar system still exists afterwards.

Edit: Also the movie sucked anyway.

The whole crux of his argument was that Supernova is LITERALLY the sun exploding, even though that makes absolutely no sense. It's not about how strong Tifa is or isn't. I don't really care about arguing that, because it's not something you can explicitly measure. That's why people get all whiny whenever a death battle featuring their favorite character comes out. The metrics are inconsistent and impossible to pin down.

Your point has no bearing on that conversation, especially since you acknowledge Supernova doesn't actually blow up the sun. Why even say it?

I said it for the same reason I assume you got into the conversation, someone made a bad point that needs correcting. Your point about Loz isn't valid because Tifa is most likely not in anywhere near the same condition she was during the fight with Sephiroth. So even if Tifa could have survived a literal sun exploding attack, Loz knocking her out after years of inactivity does not prove that Loz's punches were stronger than the supernova attack.

I have as much right to correct you on this point as you do on Nailzzz's original point.

 

[Kolby Jack]

My god, the logic hoops you're jumping through to try and win this argument are amazing. You're now applying a set of logic from one non-canon source to justify the logic in the game. That's just pure denial, right there. Especially since you ignored my point that Tifa, CANONICALLY, was beaten in a fist fight by Loz (though I got his name wrong in my previous post). So I guess in the Final Fantasy 7 universe, Loz's punches, which knocked Tifa out, are stronger than the sun exploding. Or that any attack in the game capable of knocking her out is stronger than the sun exploding. Man, why did anyone fear meteor doing paltry massive destruction to the planet? Why did Sephiroth even bother with it when he could just explode the sun, several times? Do you see the insanity you're trying to pass off as proof yet? At this point if you can't, I can't help you, but I would recommend maybe some kind of medication, or therapy.

The movie was set 2 years after the events of FF7, Tifa had been living in peace for that time and was most likely out of practice. How I interpret the games is that because of their near constant fighting, their skills and bodies were honed to an almost deity-like degree. Without the pressure of constant life or death struggles it's no surprise that Tifa's fighting prowess would deteriorate substantially. Therefore, Tifa's combat ability as of Advent Children is not a good representation of her combat ability during the fight with Sephiroth.

Not that I'm saying that Sephiroth's supernova attack literally destroys the solar system, it's pretty clear that the solar system still exists afterwards.

Edit: Also the movie sucked anyway.

The whole crux of his argument was that Supernova is LITERALLY the sun exploding, even though that makes absolutely no sense. It's not about how strong Tifa is or isn't. I don't really care about arguing that, because it's not something you can explicitly measure. That's why people get all whiny whenever a death battle featuring their favorite character comes out. The metrics are inconsistent and impossible to pin down.

Your point has no bearing on that conversation, especially since you acknowledge Supernova doesn't actually blow up the sun. Why even say it?

I said it for the same reason I assume you got into the conversation, someone made a bad point that needs correcting. Your point about Loz isn't valid because Tifa is most likely not in anywhere near the same condition she was during the fight with Sephiroth. So even if Tifa could have survived a literal sun exploding attack, Loz knocking her out after years of inactivity does not prove that Loz's punches were stronger than the supernova attack.

I have as much right to correct you on this point as you do on Nailzzz's original point.

Because lord knows not actively fighting for 2 years is enough to drop you from "no-selling the destruction of the entire solar system" to "knocked out by a guy with a haste materia." Side note, it'll be interesting to watch Ronda Rousey after her eventual retirement, where she goes from "undefeated badass" to "broken hip from a light breeze." Maybe if Tifa was sitting in a lazy boy... and eating nothing... and caught a bad case of necrotizing fasciitis over those two years, THEN I'd start to think you had a point.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Because lord knows not actively fighting for 2 years is enough to drop you from "no-selling the destruction of the entire solar system" to "knocked out by a guy with a haste materia." Side note, it'll be interesting to watch Ronda Rousey after her eventual retirement, where she goes from "undefeated badass" to "broken hip from a light breeze." Maybe if Tifa was sitting in a lazy boy... and eating nothing... and caught a bad case of necrotizing fasciitis over those two years, THEN I'd start to think you had a point.

Well, if we consider that the events of FF7 took between a couple months to half a year, and also accept that levels and stats were an accurate representation of her growth, then judging by HP she multiplied her power by 20-30 times (starting HP around 300, end game HP probably between 5000-9999). To put that in perspective, if I can lift 100lbs and then multiply my strength by 30 I can then lift 3000lbs.

So if incredible effort can result in incredible gains over a short amount of time, I don't see why lack of effort wouldn't result in incredible losses. If 6 months is long enough to get to the point of "no-selling the destruction of the entire solar system," then why shouldn't 2 years of not actively fighting drop you to the point of getting "knocked out by a guy with a haste materia?" Easy come, easy go after all.

This isn't even specific to fantasy, being the best at something takes constant effort, and if someone were to stop training competitively for 2 years it would result in a great loss of skill. Here's a quote from concert pianist Ignacy Jan Paderewski:

"If I miss one day of practice, I notice it. If I miss two days, the critics notice it. If I miss three days, the audience notices it."

It's not even like Tifa couldn't fight at all, she was still jumping off walls and withstanding impossible blows, she just wasn't anywhere near the level she was at when fighting Sephiroth.

Also you bring up another good point with materia. This was a surprise attack! If I remember correctly Tifa wasn't expecting any sort of conflict at all, so there would be no reason for her to be decked out in all her uber combat gear. The top of the line gloves, armlets, and materia provided substantial offensive and defensive boosts, so it's likely their absence would impact her performance.

 

[HomuraDidNothinWrong]

Heres the real reason Tifa should have crushed Yang. one of the key points they brought up is that Yang can handle being blasted through a concrete pillar, that can withstand 1440 tons of force, and placed Tifa's strength at 150 tons. But Concrete pillars cannot withstand that much horizontal force. Reinforced concrete fails at 95 tons of horizontal force. Tifa could easily match that blow. Now lets take Tifa's max strength into account. The highwind is listed to weigh 2000 tons in the data book. Ultima weapon is 2.5 times the size of highwind, so lets be generous and say its the same density, not more dense than the highwind, placing it at 5000 tons. Tifa can suplex it wearing leather gloves. Now the Premium heart boosts her damage 2.7x over leather gloves without limit gauge bar. With it maxed its something like 33x. So at the very upper limit, Tifa can suplex with over 150000 tons of force. Yang would be absolutely destroyed by her.

 

[Kolby Jack]

Because lord knows not actively fighting for 2 years is enough to drop you from "no-selling the destruction of the entire solar system" to "knocked out by a guy with a haste materia." Side note, it'll be interesting to watch Ronda Rousey after her eventual retirement, where she goes from "undefeated badass" to "broken hip from a light breeze." Maybe if Tifa was sitting in a lazy boy... and eating nothing... and caught a bad case of necrotizing fasciitis over those two years, THEN I'd start to think you had a point.

Well, if we consider that the events of FF7 took between a couple months to half a year, and also accept that levels and stats were an accurate representation of her growth, then judging by HP she multiplied her power by 20-30 times (starting HP around 300, end game HP probably between 5000-9999). To put that in perspective, if I can lift 100lbs and then multiply my strength by 30 I can then lift 3000lbs.

So if incredible effort can result in incredible gains over a short amount of time, I don't see why lack of effort wouldn't result in incredible losses. If 6 months is long enough to get to the point of "no-selling the destruction of the entire solar system," then why shouldn't 2 years of not actively fighting drop you to the point of getting "knocked out by a guy with a haste materia?" Easy come, easy go after all.

This isn't even specific to fantasy, being the best at something takes constant effort, and if someone were to stop training competitively for 2 years it would result in a great loss of skill. Here's a quote from concert pianist Ignacy Jan Paderewski:

"If I miss one day of practice, I notice it. If I miss two days, the critics notice it. If I miss three days, the audience notices it."

It's not even like Tifa couldn't fight at all, she was still jumping off walls and withstanding impossible blows, she just wasn't anywhere near the level she was at when fighting Sephiroth.

Also you bring up another good point with materia. This was a surprise attack! If I remember correctly Tifa wasn't expecting any sort of conflict at all, so there would be no reason for her to be decked out in all her uber combat gear. The top of the line gloves, armlets, and materia provided substantial offensive and defensive boosts, so it's likely their absence would impact her performance.

Skill doesn't have anything to do with anything. There's no skill involved with living through a supernova. Now we're getting perilously close to arguing about whether or not Tifa should have beaten Yang, which as I said, I don't care about. Yang is strong. Tifa is strong. All I have a problem with is people citing Supernova as a reason Tifa should have won, which I have already proven to be bullshit based on the mechanics of the move, the disparity between the visuals of the move and what actually occurs, and that fact that the group still considered meteor a threat despite the fact that its effect would have been minuscule compared to what Supernova supposedly accomplished. If anyone wants to refute those points, then I'll happily continue the discussion, but the rest of it is just fanboy vs fanboy crap I don't want to waste any more time on.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Skill doesn't have anything to do with anything. There's no skill involved with living through a supernova. Now we're getting perilously close to arguing about whether or not Tifa should have beaten Yang, which as I said, I don't care about. Yang is strong. Tifa is strong. All I have a problem with is people citing Supernova as a reason Tifa should have won, which I have already proven to be bullshit based on the mechanics of the move, the disparity between the visuals of the move and what actually occurs, and that fact that the group still considered meteor a threat despite the fact that its effect would have been minuscule compared to what Supernova supposedly accomplished. If anyone wants to refute those points, then I'll happily continue the discussion, but the rest of it is just fanboy vs fanboy crap I don't want to waste any more time on.

Skill might have something to do with it, we don't really know much about Tifa's style of martial arts, but it could use energy manipulation like chi. And then you gotta know how to roll to avoid the blast... I'm stretching a bit, but I still say if you can gain the strength in such and such time, you should be able to lose it in a similar time frame.

Anyway, I don't really have much investment in Tifa vs. Yang either since I haven't seen the Death Battle, nor have I seen the show Yang is from, but I want to be a part of the arguement anyway so:

It's hard to argue that Supernova is the literal destruction of the solar system. But actually, it's pretty hard to tell what that attack is supposed to be if it isn't. Hmm, maybe FF7 does not actually take place in our solar system (which would make sense because the planet is very different from ours) so Supernova is Sephiroth transporting the heroes cross-dimensionally to our solar system at the time of it's destruction so they can be roasted by the sun's explosion. And he can just keep bringing them back to the same time again and again, because he's using time materia. You would think he'd just leave 'em there, but maybe he can't for some reason. But that would explain how he could destroy the solar system again and again, but leave their planet and sun still intact. As for meteor still being a threat, well maybe the heroes would withstand the strike, but nobody else on the planet would. That's the best I can come up with.

Actually, that whole fight is pretty weird, where are they anyway? I thought they were underground, but most of the fight is in the sky...

 

[Nailzzz]

Doesn't ScrewAttack and The Escapist have the same parent company?

OT: And now, we know for a fact that Yang vs Tifa Death Battle was rigged as fuck.

Considering that nothing that yang has ever done has comes anywhere close to the level of this:

And yet Tifa can survive that, yeah I would say that Death Battle (as we'll as Cloud vs. Link) is way off base. To a rather staggering degree in fact to be anything other than rigged.

Oh yes, how could she possibly survive an attack that deals damage in fractions and literally CAN'T KILL YOU?! I'm amazed at how the Tifa fanboys are such fanboys yet don't know the mechanics of one of the most famous attacks in the game. AMATEURS!

This is interesting news. I don't watch much SA stuff but maybe I'll check it out now. Who knows? I gave Funhaus a chance and that paid off very well.

Correction, it could not kill the FF7 cast. It seemed to be enough to wipe planets from the solar system and extinguish the sun. And seeing as how Death Battle likes to use destructive power vs. inanimate objects as evidence to measure strength (such as Yang's ability to take a punch that shatters a concrete building support), it should count just as much as any other illustration of power. In light of that, the assertion that Tifa is a glass cannon could not be more incorrect.

On a related note, it seems likely that Superman might meet his match in Sephiroth considering that Sephiroth is able to remove the sun from the equation.

Yeah, sure, it extinguished the sun. Which is why the sun still exists after the battle, or even during the multiple times he can use it in the fight. I mean, I guess I just didn't think about it at all!

Please, stop trying to justify this with nonsense. Supernova is NOT that powerful, it just LOOKS powerful. Tifa got beaten by Yaz in the movie, who just hit her really hard with his fist a few times. I don't know if Yang is legitimately stronger or not, but Tifa is not God. It'd be a close fight either way and your inane fanboy ramblings won't change that.

Did the Earth not continue to exist after the first Superman vs. Goku? Judging from the rematch setting it does seem to be the case. Would that not mean that the first fight never happened then where they split the planet? So why then does it apply to this fight, but not that one? The permanence of celestial bodies is clearly not a requirement or even a consideration when it comes to how Death Battle chooses to illustrate power. Never claimed Tifa was god. Just illustrated that she can survive an explosion from a supernova. May not qualify her as a god, but it certainly is not a feat I would use to brush her off as a "glass cannon".

My god, the logic hoops you're jumping through to try and win this argument are amazing. You're now applying a set of logic from one non-canon source to justify the logic in the game. That's just pure denial, right there. Especially since you ignored my point that Tifa, CANONICALLY, was beaten in a fist fight by Loz (though I got his name wrong in my previous post). So I guess in the Final Fantasy 7 universe, Loz's punches, which knocked Tifa out, are stronger than the sun exploding. Or that any attack in the game capable of knocking her out is stronger than the sun exploding. Man, why did anyone fear meteor doing paltry massive destruction to the planet? Why did Sephiroth even bother with it when he could just explode the sun, several times? Do you see the insanity you're trying to pass off as proof yet? At this point if you can't, I can't help you, but I would recommend maybe some kind of medication, or therapy.

Hold on. I can do even better. You keep bringing up Loz knocking Tifa out as though that is evidence of her being weak. I would like to remind you that Loz is a clone of who? Why that would be the solar system wrecking Sephiroth. Not exactly a weakling. And considering that Cloud is also a Sephiroth clone who bested Sephiroth, It may in fact be quite possible that perhaps Loz can punch with that kind of force. If Sephiroth can cause a supernova by mere force of will, then why couldn't a lesser clone of his hit with the same force with the physical exertion of his fists?

 

[Nailzzz]

Double post for some reason. The new captcha seems to be screwing with posting.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

The whole crux of his argument was that Supernova is LITERALLY the sun exploding, even though that makes absolutely no sense. It's not about how strong Tifa is or isn't. I don't really care about arguing that, because it's not something you can explicitly measure. That's why people get all whiny whenever a death battle featuring their favorite character comes out. The metrics are inconsistent and impossible to pin down.

Your point has no bearing on that conversation, especially since you acknowledge Supernova doesn't actually blow up the sun. Why even say it?

Just also take into account that using Bahamut ZERO more than once should have been enough to destroy the planet as well... so maybe the summons and magic attacks aren't meant to be taken literally as they're shown... Just a thought that the argument may want to consider.

 

[Kolby Jack]

Doesn't ScrewAttack and The Escapist have the same parent company?

OT: And now, we know for a fact that Yang vs Tifa Death Battle was rigged as fuck.

Considering that nothing that yang has ever done has comes anywhere close to the level of this:

And yet Tifa can survive that, yeah I would say that Death Battle (as we'll as Cloud vs. Link) is way off base. To a rather staggering degree in fact to be anything other than rigged.

Oh yes, how could she possibly survive an attack that deals damage in fractions and literally CAN'T KILL YOU?! I'm amazed at how the Tifa fanboys are such fanboys yet don't know the mechanics of one of the most famous attacks in the game. AMATEURS!

This is interesting news. I don't watch much SA stuff but maybe I'll check it out now. Who knows? I gave Funhaus a chance and that paid off very well.

Correction, it could not kill the FF7 cast. It seemed to be enough to wipe planets from the solar system and extinguish the sun. And seeing as how Death Battle likes to use destructive power vs. inanimate objects as evidence to measure strength (such as Yang's ability to take a punch that shatters a concrete building support), it should count just as much as any other illustration of power. In light of that, the assertion that Tifa is a glass cannon could not be more incorrect.

On a related note, it seems likely that Superman might meet his match in Sephiroth considering that Sephiroth is able to remove the sun from the equation.

Yeah, sure, it extinguished the sun. Which is why the sun still exists after the battle, or even during the multiple times he can use it in the fight. I mean, I guess I just didn't think about it at all!

Please, stop trying to justify this with nonsense. Supernova is NOT that powerful, it just LOOKS powerful. Tifa got beaten by Yaz in the movie, who just hit her really hard with his fist a few times. I don't know if Yang is legitimately stronger or not, but Tifa is not God. It'd be a close fight either way and your inane fanboy ramblings won't change that.

Did the Earth not continue to exist after the first Superman vs. Goku? Judging from the rematch setting it does seem to be the case. Would that not mean that the first fight never happened then where they split the planet? So why then does it apply to this fight, but not that one? The permanence of celestial bodies is clearly not a requirement or even a consideration when it comes to how Death Battle chooses to illustrate power. Never claimed Tifa was god. Just illustrated that she can survive an explosion from a supernova. May not qualify her as a god, but it certainly is not a feat I would use to brush her off as a "glass cannon".

My god, the logic hoops you're jumping through to try and win this argument are amazing. You're now applying a set of logic from one non-canon source to justify the logic in the game. That's just pure denial, right there. Especially since you ignored my point that Tifa, CANONICALLY, was beaten in a fist fight by Loz (though I got his name wrong in my previous post). So I guess in the Final Fantasy 7 universe, Loz's punches, which knocked Tifa out, are stronger than the sun exploding. Or that any attack in the game capable of knocking her out is stronger than the sun exploding. Man, why did anyone fear meteor doing paltry massive destruction to the planet? Why did Sephiroth even bother with it when he could just explode the sun, several times? Do you see the insanity you're trying to pass off as proof yet? At this point if you can't, I can't help you, but I would recommend maybe some kind of medication, or therapy.

Hold on. I can do even better. You keep bringing up Loz knocking Tifa out as though that is evidence of her being weak. I would like to remind you that Loz is a clone of who? Why that would be the solar system wrecking Sephiroth. Not exactly a weakling. And considering that Cloud is also a Sephiroth clone who bested Sephiroth, It may in fact be quite possible that perhaps Loz can punch with that kind of force. If Sephiroth can cause a supernova by mere force of will, then why couldn't a lesser clone of his hit with the same force with the physical exertion of his fists?

Sephiroth clones aren't actual clones, and in fact aren't genetically similar to Sephiroth in any way. They're just people who have been injected with Jenova cells. The use of the word "clone" is a misnomer: it's more like Sephiroth is the most successful prototype (due to being injected in the womb), while the others are less stable versions of the same idea. Cloud was stronger than Sephiroth BEFORE he got his Jenova cells: he was the one who killed him in Nibelheim, after all. The game strongly emphasizes the point that true strength doesn't come from the cells, it comes from within. That was what the whole lifestream journey with Tifa and Cloud was about: discovering Cloud's forgotten strength.

And I never said Tifa was weak. She's just not "survive solar destruction" strong. Loz hit her hard enough to break through a solid stone pillar, which is what knocked her out. An attack, by the way, that Death Battle also mentioned happening to Yang, yet she got back up and won the fight. And if Loz hit her with the force of a Supernova, the Planet would have literally exploded.