Scythes in Games

[Dan DePuy]

Looking at that war scythe... it's a naginata. It's not even a scythe anymore. Yes, if you want to argue that a scythe that has been turned into a naginata is a weapon, I will give you that. In the same context, a rake is an excellent weapon if you take off the head and replace it with a sharp pointy thing. Because now it's a war rake. I quite honestly don't think any of you have looked at a photo of a real scythe yet. It's got a curved haft with a handle sticking out the middle and another long bar at a right angle at the end of the haft. The video game type scythe you all link pictures to is very modified from the real design, and is not really a scythe any more. Even so, the blade still can't be used for cutting in any meaningful way because the ship limits the angles and direction with which it could cut a target. It's not a weapon and could never be realistically used as one... unless of course you take away all the things that make it a scythe, stick a halberd blade on it and continue calling it a scythe anyway because you want that badly for a scythe to be a weapon.

As for the whole "kung fu bla bla farming implements yadda yadda" nonsense, that's a myth that is perpetuated by martial arts instructors and poorly dubbed movies. All weapons were developed with the intention of being weapons. Nobody ever picked up a trowel and thought "oh look! I can use this as a weapon! I'm going to dig the crap out of those bad guys!"

Of course I am sympathetic to the fact that this is, indeed, a gaming/anime/fantasy forum I'm dealing with here and that the overwhelming majority of you are a)teenagers; b) so entrenched in your fantasy worlds that you have a very hard time differentiating them from reality or c) so in love with your fantasy worlds that you refuse to believe for a moment that any statement that criticizes it even when presented with incontrovertible evidence.

 

[TheVurdmeister]

I'm almost positive Dante from Devil May Cry used a scythe at some point too, and plenty of his foes did. To quote the edit,I agree with you, people can be too realistic when it comes to the Scythe. It is a freaking intimidating weapon. The other day when I was playing DnD, I wanted to specialize as a scythe wielder, but my DM told me it would be no use since it was a farming tool. Total bullshit. I can craft and enchant the shit out of a Scythe with time and I'll be Death himself. I mean, 75% of us relate the Scythe to Death, I hardly recognize it as a farming tool. T.T

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

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To add, there ARE techniques to use Scythes as weapons without rotating the blades:

http://dfg-viewer.de/show/?set%5Bimage%5D=411&set%5Bzoom%5D=default&set%5Bdebug%5D=0&set%5Bdouble%5D=0&set%5Bmets%5D=http%3A%2F%2Fmdz10.bib-bvb.de%2F~db%2Fmets%2Fbsb00006570_mets.xml

The thing is, if both edges of a Scythe are sharpended, it's a pretty unpredcatble weapon.

You can hook and grab the edges of armor, sheilds, and swords, twist and hook to pull them away, or hit the opponents body from odd angles.

 

[Javarock]

We've been over this before; Scythes are a poor choice for a weapon, and those who think otherwise have poor opinions.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.70517-Scythes#694172

Uh, yeah, I don't really care what you've "been over" before. If I wasn't there, it might as well never have happened. Science can decide that it's not a practical weapon, but there is no science that can decide whether it is or isn't a "poor choice" as one in a video game. That is pure opinion based on aesthetics and aesthetics alone. Aesthetics, as in beauty. And beauty is rarely scientific. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And "eye of the beholder" is another way of saying "purely subjective." Thus, as it's something purely subjective, there are no "poor opinions" about it, positive or negative.

They would jaunt me out of immersion in a game.

Unless of course the person wielding it was a god of some sort.

But, a Warrior "Dovaking" wouldn't do so well... And it wouldn't make sense.

 

[Spacewolf]

Looking at that war scythe... it's a naginata. It's not even a scythe anymore. Yes, if you want to argue that a scythe that has been turned into a naginata is a weapon, I will give you that. In the same context, a rake is an excellent weapon if you take off the head and replace it with a sharp pointy thing. Because now it's a war rake. I quite honestly don't think any of you have looked at a photo of a real scythe yet. It's got a curved haft with a handle sticking out the middle and another long bar at a right angle at the end of the haft. The video game type scythe you all link pictures to is very modified from the real design, and is not really a scythe any more. Even so, the blade still can't be used for cutting in any meaningful way because the ship limits the angles and direction with which it could cut a target. It's not a weapon and could never be realistically used as one... unless of course you take away all the things that make it a scythe, stick a halberd blade on it and continue calling it a scythe anyway because you want that badly for a scythe to be a weapon.

As for the whole "kung fu bla bla farming implements yadda yadda" nonsense, that's a myth that is perpetuated by martial arts instructors and poorly dubbed movies. All weapons were developed with the intention of being weapons. Nobody ever picked up a trowel and thought "oh look! I can use this as a weapon! I'm going to dig the crap out of those bad guys!"

Of course I am sympathetic to the fact that this is, indeed, a gaming/anime/fantasy forum I'm dealing with here and that the overwhelming majority of you are a)teenagers; b) so entrenched in your fantasy worlds that you have a very hard time differentiating them from reality or c) so in love with your fantasy worlds that you refuse to believe for a moment that any statement that criticizes it even when presented with incontrovertible evidence.

I think reaper man is the only source ive ever seen that makes the distinction when talking about sythes. However standard sythes have been used as weapons of war in alot of peasent rebillions even if its less useful than other farm yard weapons simply because they didnt have any choice

 

[Lawnmooer]

All weapons were developed with the intention of being weapons. Nobody ever picked up a trowel and thought "oh look! I can use this as a weapon! I'm going to dig the crap out of those bad guys!"

No, I believe the thought process was something more along the lines of "Oh crap I'm being attacked, I now have the choice to use this farming tool or my bare fists to protect myself!"

Also I've been thinking about scythes being made more practical so for starters I will link a picture of a farming scythe (Just to please the "OMG IS FARMING TOOL NOT WEAPON" people...)

Spoiler

Now in my mind I thought that straightening the haft and making it out of a lighter material (To reduce the weight and encombering qualities of the regular farming tool being used as a weapon) widening the blade (To about the size of what most games and pictures depict them as) and sharpening all edges of the blade rather than just the inside (Really it just makes sense for weaponizing it...)

Then you end up with something along the lines of:

Spoiler

In which case useage would essentially be axe-like but using "Reap-like" slashes and pulls (If you get the blade behind an enemy) instead of the downward hacks and cleaves of an axe. Durability would be an issue against heavier armours though (Unless you get good enough to get between the plates and such).

The fight scenes in my head that show different techniques that should be possible with a weaponized scythe do seem like they could be quite effective if the person using it was good (Which considering most games have it so everyone can use every weapon efficiently is not a drawback)

But I guess this is slightly off-topic (Though I've already posted in this thread, which was at least 90% on topic)

Edit: Dual ended scythes I cannot see being functional, but then again dual ended Lightsabers would be almost impossible to learn how to use (Lesson 1: *Fwing* "Oh dear, there goes my kidney") but they still don't get the flack that scythes do...

 

[Condiments]

Scythes are impractical but make awesome looking weapons. Reminds me of my signature weapons when I played the game Phantasy star online. The Soul Eater, and Soul Banish.

 

[Zantos]

Darksiders 2, anybody?

Spoiler: Dual scythes, baby!

"

This gave me strange feelings in my boy parts.

OT: Dante has a scythe in his Inferno. He steals it from death in the tutorial, which doesn't make much sense really but we forgave it because it's a pretty awesome thing to do.

The weird thing is I'm seeing a lot of people say about how it's an impractical weapon. I was talking to my Dad today about why people still use guns that are more impractical than others available to them, and he explained to me how sometimes it's just really fucking cool.

 

[4nthr4x]

Some of the enemies in Resident Evil 4 carry scythes.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIjTrCz5siw
skip to 2:45

1 hit kill, no dodging. Pretty badass

 

[StBishop]

We've been over this before; Scythes are a poor choice for a weapon, and those who think otherwise have poor opinions.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.70517-Scythes#694172

It's good to see my opinion stated so well for me.

I think they're just bad. Not impractical (although they are) but just a bad decision.

Not awesome, not badass, not cool, not creepy, just fucking dumb.

 

[Riddle78]

Real world? The blade's position on the scythe makes if very impractical for combat,when also considering the size of the thing. Now,if you removed the blade,rotated it backwards 90 degrees...THEN you have a somewhat practical scythe. But a halberd is the same size,if not longer,and hives you more options.

So...All in all,the scythe looks nasty,but anyone who knows jack about melee combat knows a good old fashioned broadsword will do you better.

 

[Dragonpit]

Oh, good grief. Been down this road before. So yeah. Here's the thing.

Scythes. Large weapons. Slow and hard to use. Not for mid-ranged attacking. Strictly close combat. Very powerful in terms of cutting power. Requires a special kind of swing. Must be used to bring your opponents closer, into range.

I ended up discussing this at length with a friend of mine about a year ago and these are all the conclusions we came up with about the scythe. It's not so much impractical so much as it is unusual.

EDIT: I should mention right now that using examples of scythes used in combat in video games is not a good way to support the idea that they can be used in actual combat. Truth be told, they are actually not being swung properly more often than not. Plus, looking badass doesn't really help their case in terms of practicality.

 

[hermes]

- Death is a boss in most Castlevania games. Of course, he uses a scythe...
- War in Darksiders...
- Some character can use scythes in Dragon Quest.

Scythes are mostly rules be the rule of cool... They look nice, but are among the most impractical objects to be used as weapons.

 

[Cenequus]

Scythes we're my fav weapon in NWN2.I was dual wielding them,2d4 x4 crit is big number damage.

 

[kitolz]

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The thing is, if both edges of a Scythe are sharpended, it's a pretty unpredcatble weapon.

You can hook and grab the edges of armor, sheilds, and swords, twist and hook to pull them away, or hit the opponents body from odd angles.

While it's true you can hit the body from odd angles, you'd be telegraphing your move when you pull back to swing. The blade of a scythe is heavy, and unbalanced. If you try to change the direction of the swing to confuse your opponent, you're liable to slip your grip, or just fail to alter the direction completely.

And the work you linked is a fascinating read (I can't read german, but the pretty pictures help). But even with their demonstrations, it still seems like the scythe is inferior to any other contemporary weapon of that period. Just take off the blade, fight with the stick. You'd get faster strikes, and parry easier. Certainly easier than that fool trying to swing around the scythe.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

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The thing is, if both edges of a Scythe are sharpended, it's a pretty unpredcatble weapon.

You can hook and grab the edges of armor, sheilds, and swords, twist and hook to pull them away, or hit the opponents body from odd angles.

While it's true you can hit the body from odd angles, you'd be telegraphing your move when you pull back to swing. The blade of a scythe is heavy, and unbalanced. If you try to change the direction of the swing to confuse your opponent, you're liable to slip your grip, or just fail to alter the direction completely.

And the work you linked is a fascinating read (I can't read german, but the pretty pictures help). But even with their demonstrations, it still seems like the scythe is inferior to any other contemporary weapon of that period. Just take off the blade, fight with the stick. You'd get faster strikes, and parry easier. Certainly easier than that fool trying to swing around the scythe.

About your first point, this is true.

At the same time, though, hailbreds are just as heavy (though more balenced)

I don't see a mass of forces using a normal scythe, but I can see how a indivual who has been farming with one their entire life be able to use one effectively as a weapon.

Personally, I think it'd be VERY effective if you were to shorten the overall size of the weapon a bit, but curve the blade so it hooks more and the tip is pointing outware a a little.

This would reduce the weight, but still keep the range.

 

[kitolz]

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About your first point, this is true.

At the same time, though, hailbreds are just as heavy (though more balenced)

I don't see a mass of forces using a normal scythe, but I can see how a indivual who has been farming with one their entire life be able to use one effectively as a weapon.

Personally, I think it'd be VERY effective if you were to shorten the overall size of the weapon a bit, but curve the blade so it hooks more and the tip is pointing outware a a little.

This would reduce the weight, but still keep the range.

Yep, that's a sensible approach to it, and precisely the adjustments applied to create the Dacian Falx and War Scythes. It made the blade more balanced, made it easier to dismember.

The balance and reach of the halberds were huge factors in effectiveness. You can use it like a spear, the weight giving it more force to punch through armor. The reach of the weapon makes it easier to hook riders in an attempt to dismount them. Sadly these 2 primary features are missing in the traditional scythe.

 

[otakon17]

I'll be honest I've always like Halberds myself. But Scythes do have a certain "intimidation" factor inundated from association with the "Grim Reaper" that most people recognize as the anthropomorphic form of death.

 

[Aprilgold]

To be honest, there needs to be a zombie game to where you play as Death, that would certainly be enough Scythe action for me.

My god, yes! You would play as Death, discovering one day that mortals have been dabbling with the supernatural and have interrupted the ancient cycle of life and death. And it's up to you to deal with this shit and restore the natural order of things. I'm not sure why this hasn't been made yet.

Its sales point, kill things in over 1,000 DIFFERENT WAYS! Get new robes for death, from a pink robe to a molten lava robe! PRE ORDER BONUS GIVES YOU LEVELS BASED OFF OF REAL WORLD LOCATIONS!