AngloDoom said:
TheDeadman said:
A lion will kill a cheetah if it sees it; it won't eat it however. It just kills them to make it easier to catch food, it removes the competition and therefore increases the likelihood of its own species surviving.
Yes it would. But he would do it to prevent his family or group or whatever to get killed.
He wouldn't do it just for fun or because the cheetah isn't a lion.
Like you said, it would do it to make it's own speciels survive longer.
But humanity will survive without killing each other. We don't need to. Maybe when we still lived in caves we needed to, but now we don't and still we kill each other.
And you would realy think that a mouse would a mousetrap? Like we build atomicbombs.
You think an animal would be pleased when it bites of an other animals head?
I know that some humans are.
Also are we animals too. What seperates us from other animals? We are intelligent? I've seen persons that are more stupid than some animals.
Give me a reason why we are SOOO much better than animals and we have the right to take whatever we want.
I'm going to go through your thread in order, just to make it easier for me to read, m'kay? Again, you seem to be making assumptions that I am attacking you, your beliefs, and (it seems) animals. You're mistaken.
Firstly, despite the fact that we know we can get along without killing each other, since we are driven by animal instinct, we don't
really know this. Want to make a guy stop doing something? Punch him in the face. It's something every child and hot-head goes through every day. Killing them is just the ultimate STFU.
A mouse would build a mouse-trap, I believe. I think if a mouse saw a mouse as a threat to itself it would use the most powerful weapon it had on it, if it had the intelligence to make dynamite it'd use dynamite. It's not like people use atomic bombs just for giggles.
While I do accept that some people are sadists, the simple fact of the matter is an animals isn't aware enough to even take pleasure in anything beyond a physical level. They have personality, to a small degree, built only on experience and instinct. A wolf doesn't take pride in the fact its got longer fur than the rest or it killed a deer on its own. It's just going to wonder why the fuck the other wolves are chewing
it's meat.
Also, you seem under the illusion that I once said that we're separate to animals. I swear I even started the subject off with 'we're pretty much identical in terms of instincts' or something along those lines. We
are animals, so it works both ways. If animals are bad, humans are. If humans are bad, animals have the potential to be bad if they were intelligent.
I've never said we are better than animals, I never said we can take what we want, but lets look at it for a literal point of view; we are better and we can take what we want.
We are stronger, we make things better for us using vast numbers and our equally vast intelligent. We plunder, pillage, burn and convert anything that isn't our way to something we like. We learned to set traps, so we did. We learned to kill and capture, so we did. We learned to take advantage of whatever nature throws at us so we did. None of this we did only for pleasure, it's all built into us for the sake of survival. What pleases us is often good for us; sex, eating, lazing around to a degree, is all good for us.
You say humans take pleasure in pain, but do you honestly take pleasure in pain? People who, as you say "would take pleasure biting another creature's head off" are not exactly in the right frame of mind to represent the human race.
From a natural point of view, we are successful evolution. We're smarter, and with that intelligence we became what we are. It's the same in every aspect of evolution; the successful creatures kill the unsuccessful. It's come to a point where what makes an animal more liable to survive in some parts is not how it can survive in the wild, but how it can survive in an urban environment. Opossums, raccoons, foxes, pigeons, anything with that kind of flexibility is the new era of animal in areas of human settlement because we are, in the most literal point of view, superior.
I've never said this is good, or bad. I'm simply stating what I believe is true; I'm not going to be all hippie and believe that if an iguana could use a gun it wouldn't use it to take out any other iguana that pissed it off.
Simple fact is exactly what you said and exactly what I believed in all my life; we are animals. We're not different. We're primitive and stupid, but everything else is a little bit more stupid, that's why we have the edge and that's why we are evolutionarily successful.
Please, do not try and paint me as the super right-wing bad-guy. My views differ from yours, do not be offended.
EDIT- Also, kaziard makes a good point I really should have thought of. Fuck, Hippos go around and attack crocodiles for no reason than to bug them. They literally swim out of their way, waddle their ass over to them, and bite them for no reason, whether they are in a herd or otherwise. Animals are just as much assholes as we are, we just know more tricks.
