seeing through walls in stealth orientated games

[prophecy2514]

Do you like the recent trend in stealth orientated (or games with stealth elements) games where you have the power/ability to see through walls to locate enemy patrols through areas you have to sneak through?
I can't say that I do, I like the having to peek around corners and be extra cautious moving through doors etc. While I realise the power is optional, (in games like deus ex HR and dishonored for example) I still don't like the option of it being there, knowing where all our enemies are, and making the game too easy. What do you think?

 

[Bad Jim]

Just because you know where the enemy is, doesn't mean it is easy to avoid the patrols. You can expect more patrols and fewer places to hide than in games without such devices.

 

[sethisjimmy]

I like the optional part of it. During my first playthrough of Deus Ex HR I chose never to use it, to get the true stealth experience, but on my second playthrough, I let myself use it just to experience being an omniscient stealth badass, and it was definitely fun.

 

[Nomanslander]

Well, honestly, I don't feel like stealth games today have really gone in the right direction. Instead of improving the AI more, or reaching stealth gameplays full potential, they have added an option to Rambo the level instead. I noticed it started with MGS4 when Snake could just stand upright and gun everyone down when he felt like his back was giving out from all the crouching. To me that pretty much brakes the cardinal rule in stealth games. Not saying you should be as weak as a lamb if you're detected, but being able to Rambo it is another extreme better suited for straight up shooters or action games. If you want to make a stealth game, make one, if you want to make an action game, do so. But don't try to do both or you'll just get moosh.

As for seeing through walls thing, I think that's the stealth genres least worry.

=/

Although, I won't judge Dues Ex on this, since it's always wanted to be a game about playing it your way.

 

[BernardoOne]

As long as its optional and the whole game isnt designed around that, Im fine with it. Personally, I wouldnt miss it a bit, never even tried it on dishonored.

 

[Silly Hats]

Eh, I really like playing Stealthy and if i'm feeling 'purist' in a way then I won't take that sort of skill. Sometimes they're fun, but it seems like it shouldn't have to be in every other skill. The patrols that AI npcs are programmed to do aren't usually that complicated.

I really enjoyed Dishonored because of the Blink skills, I have way too much fun Shadowstepping in games.

 

[WalrusPowers]

ehh, it can work and it can fail. It does make it a bit too easy, but without it you can run into some irritating guess and check gameplay, which is rather annoying in stealth games because of how slow paced they are.

EDIT: We need more stealth game threads.

 

[dyre]

The first time I played a game with it (I think Deus Ex HR?), I remember feeling apprehensive about the concept, since as you say it seems more honest to just spot them. But I never felt that it ruined the experience. I think it's because even if you don't see through walls, locating enemies isn't that tough anyway. Either you do it through third person cover peeking (you know, when you're in cover but you can still see past the cover), or you just take a quick peek and pop back into hiding before the enemy detection bar or w/e fills up.

 

[Smooth Operator]

People are lazy as balls and devs know it, that is why challenge is a last minute add-on rather then part of development.

And yes I also used to tell people playing entire games in god-mode ruined nothing of the experience, of course I was lying to myself to avoid adversity and still feel good about it.

 

[Zhukov]

No, I don't much care for it.

It feels like easy mode. Rather like giving yourself god mode or a rocket launcher with infinite ammo in a shooter.

 

[Shocksplicer]

It's not that recent, Splinter Cell 1 had the Thermal Goggles which let you see through certain walls at limited range.

Personally, I'm fine with it.

 

[Abomination]

ehh, it can work and it can fail. It does make it a bit too easy, but without it you can run into some irritating guess and check gameplay, which is rather annoying in stealth games because of how slow paced they are.

EDIT: We need more stealth game threads.

This is the same issue I have with stealth games. It turns into lessons of patience. I already know how to be patient, but when I'm trying to play a game (something I have a limited amount of time to do) I don't want to spend it waiting for something to happen. I am okay with timing puzzles but patience "puzzles" are annoying as hell - and distinguishing between the two usually depends on how long I have to wait between opportunities.

If the game doesn't have a 'see through walls/detect enemies' special ability it better have a 'distract' ability.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

It's ok.

Good games have on a timer/using mana, bad (or at least overpowered ones) do not.

 

[LetalisK]

If it's optional, why do you care if it's there or not? Don't use it. Simple.

 

[Another]

I kind of like it. Its nice to plan your attack, but it really depends on the game. I loved it in Human Revolution, but not so much in Dishonored. Dunno why.

 

[XMark]

I think Far Cry 3 did it best, where you could see enemies through walls, but only if you had scouted them out from a vantage point beforehand. So it wasn't too overpowered.

 

[Jack Rascal]

I think Dishonored is a bad example here since you were also able to stop time and blink yourself instantly to another spot. You could also posses one of the guards and just slip past the rest... Dishonored had a vast array of special abilities your enemies did not, you pretty much had the upper hand form the get-go. Nonetheless, I loved the game.

But if the ability to see through walls doesn't really sit with the rest of the game, I see your point. It would be like an easy mode I guess.

 

[Rack]

I'm a big fan, but I'm not going to say it should be ubiquitous because outside of extreme challenge modes you can't just ignore it. With that level of information the gaps in patrols need to be that much tighter to account for the level of information the player has access to. If not the power to see through walls trivialises the content.

I'm a fan, partly because it fulfills a power fantasy far more effectively in that the AI can be less braindead and partly because I prefer solving problems when I have information available than mussing around with guesswork, particularly as stealth games haven't solved the issue of what happens when the player is spotted at all effectively.

So yeah, I like them but either way the game needs to be designed around them.