Senate Unanimously Approves Making Daylight Savings Time Permanent

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Thaluikhain

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Why do you guys put the year first? If I want to know what date it is the year is the one thing I definitely know for certain.
Well, that way it goes big-medium-small for time periods. And if you have the date in a file name, it's easier to put things in order if the year is first.
 

tstorm823

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Further confirmation that Rubio is an idiot who bet on the wrong horse.
You're citing an article that says this:

"For people in warmer climates, having more light earlier in the day could help to get through the chores before the temperature rises too much."

That is such a beautiful misunderstanding of reality.
 

crimson5pheonix

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You're citing an article that says this:

"For people in warmer climates, having more light earlier in the day could help to get through the chores before the temperature rises too much."

That is such a beautiful misunderstanding of reality.
As someone who lives in Texas, no that's pretty accurate. You want to get things done before about noon, usually. After that things get so much worse.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Further confirmation that Rubio is an idiot who bet on the wrong horse.
Huh? It's a consensus that people don't like changing times and it seems about split on which time to keep to. I'd prefer staying on DST because then the sun is up in the 4 o'clock hour in my area (Chicagoland) in the summer if we stay on standard time, 5am is already too early and that's with the clock pushed up. It seems like even time has become a political issue calling people idiots already...
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Yet more proof of my "split by a half hour" theory. It's just misaligned permanently whichever way you go
 

Trunkage

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You're citing an article that says this:

"For people in warmer climates, having more light earlier in the day could help to get through the chores before the temperature rises too much."

That is such a beautiful misunderstanding of reality.
Look, it's very true that there is a time in the day where getting chores by because it's too hot.

But it's very true that it the same time, irrelevant of whatever number we proscribed to it.

I would only point that on weekends some tools aren't to be used by a certain time, usually later than during the week. Eg. Mowing, power toold etc. So there is some time lost there but I think this was very poorly described

Also, during the times I've had daylight savings, I never changed my sleep patterns so your just shuffling spare time around
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Huh? It's a consensus that people don't like changing times and it seems about split on which time to keep to. I'd prefer staying on DST because then the sun is up in the 4 o'clock hour in my area (Chicagoland) in the summer if we stay on standard time, 5am is already too early and that's with the clock pushed up. It seems like even time has become a political issue calling people idiots already...
He's been pushing for permanent DST for years but the whole idea was pretty pointless to begin with.

People Who Think Daylight Saving Time Is Pointless Actually Have A Really Good Point | HuffPost Life

The awfulness of daylight saving time, mapped - Vox

It should have stayed standard time.
 

Agema

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As someone who lives in Texas, no that's pretty accurate. You want to get things done before about noon, usually. After that things get so much worse.
I remember being on holiday in India looking round some old ruins. Started at 9am, before even noon my wife and I cut it short and went back to the hotel because it was unbearable. Well, the Indians manage obviously, but they're used to it.
 

tstorm823

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As someone who lives in Texas, no that's pretty accurate. You want to get things done before about noon, usually. After that things get so much worse.
It's terribly stupid, because the amount of light and the temperature are directly correlated, independent of clocks. You cannot move the numbers to get more light before it gets hot out. If anything, if the goal is to work before it gets hot, you want to start work with less light, which DST does by moving sunrise later in the day.
 

Agema

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It's terribly stupid, because the amount of light and the temperature are directly correlated, independent of clocks. You cannot move the numbers to get more light before it gets hot out. If anything, if the goal is to work before it gets hot, you want to start work with less light, which DST does by moving sunrise later in the day.
This isn't true.

Although the intensity of sunlight that reaches the land is the same at the same amount of time either side of peak intensity, it is different for temperature. Before the peak it's still needing to warm up the land from the cool of night, but after the peak it's still got the residual heat of all of the previous sunlight to sustain temperatures despite the waning intensity of sunlight.

So for instance in the UK today where I am it is sunny all day, and daylight hours are approximately 6am - 6pm, so the peak sunlight is noon. However, the peak temperature is 1-2pm, not noon. And when the sun sets it is 10oC hotter than when the sun rises, despite the same intensity of sunlight.

Therefore, it's better to get your work done in the morning than the afternoon where high temperatures are a problem.
 

tstorm823

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Therefore, it's better to get your work done in the morning than the afternoon where high temperatures are a problem.
You missed the point. My point is that the author was treating the heat of the day as tied to what hour the clocks say rather than tied to the cycle of sunlight. Dawn is going to be a certain temperature whether it's at 5AM or 6AM. The point where the sun is its highest is going to be a certain temperature regardless of what the clocks say. The temperature at dusk does not care about what number we set it at. The article suggested that shifting the sunlight to an earlier hour would give more time to work in the morning, but that would also move the afternoon heat earlier by an equal amount.

I've worked a physical job outside in the summer, where if we knew it was going to be a hot day we would start before 6 and get out of the sun before 1. Without daylight savings time, to avoid the heat, we would have had to start before 5.
 

crimson5pheonix

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It's terribly stupid, because the amount of light and the temperature are directly correlated, independent of clocks. You cannot move the numbers to get more light before it gets hot out. If anything, if the goal is to work before it gets hot, you want to start work with less light, which DST does by moving sunrise later in the day.
However the clocks do dictate when places are open and when noise ordinances end.
 

tstorm823

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However the clocks do dictate when places are open and when noise ordinances end.
Correct. If you were to do standard time in the summer, you would create daylight hours blocked by noise ordinances and force people to work in the heat of the day.
 

Phoenixmgs

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He's been pushing for permanent DST for years but the whole idea was pretty pointless to begin with.

People Who Think Daylight Saving Time Is Pointless Actually Have A Really Good Point | HuffPost Life

The awfulness of daylight saving time, mapped - Vox

It should have stayed standard time.
The 1st article is just about why switching times is bad vs which time would be better. I don't get why it's so bad to have sunrise later as some places already have late sunrises as shown in the maps. In Indianapolis in the winter (as I travel there for work from time to time), it's still dark at 8am. Sure, you can say driving is safer in the light but then you're driving home in the dark if it's light in the morning so that's a wash. Or you can say getting up in the morning when it's dark is depressing but so is getting out of work and it being dark. So, I don't see why switching that is a problem and why someone that wants to make DST permanent over ST is an idiot and making ST permanent is smart and wise. And, having the sunrise later could finally get schools to start at reasonable times because most schools don't start at reasonable times and that's according to health experts and the CDC. I didn't realize how abnormal my high school was as it started at 8:30am, which is in the minority by a lot as 93% of high schools start before 8:30am.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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The 1st article is just about why switching times is bad vs which time would be better. I don't get why it's so bad to have sunrise later as some places already have late sunrises as shown in the maps. In Indianapolis in the winter (as I travel there for work from time to time), it's still dark at 8am. Sure, you can say driving is safer in the light but then you're driving home in the dark if it's light in the morning so that's a wash. Or you can say getting up in the morning when it's dark is depressing but so is getting out of work and it being dark. So, I don't see why switching that is a problem and why someone that wants to make DST permanent over ST is an idiot and making ST permanent is smart and wise. And, having the sunrise later could finally get schools to start at reasonable times because most schools don't start at reasonable times and that's according to health experts and the CDC. I didn't realize how abnormal my high school was as it started at 8:30am, which is in the minority by a lot as 93% of high schools start before 8:30am.
Because there’s no shortage of references explaining why DST was a fool’s errand from the onset, which makes it ridiculous that the Senate would want to ignorantly steer us that way.


The human body’s rhythm is what society’s schedules should revolve around, because it’s a proven concept that has been in existence as long as people have roamed the earth. Shifting clocks ahead permanently won’t fix that. If we want to fix anything it should be time zones. We can’t make everyone happy, and there are always exceptions like shift workers, but the vast majority are detrimentally affected by one more than the other, and that is scientifically proven.

Standard time is called so for a reason, as it should be. The last comments about when schools should start doesn’t make sense. If schools are starting later and kids need to spend the same amount of time per day, then they’re going to be staying that much later as well. So what daylight is being saved? None. The reduced crime stat that is often touted is a half truth at best too, because it’s not it like criminals suddenly have one less hour of darkness to play with. The earth is still rotating at the same constant speed, and they’ll simply wait until dark regardless of it happening at 5 or 6.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Because there’s no shortage of references explaining why DST was a fool’s errand from the onset, which makes it ridiculous that the Senate would want to ignorantly steer us that way.


The human body’s rhythm is what society’s schedules should revolve around, because it’s a proven concept that has been in existence as long as people have roamed the earth. Shifting clocks ahead permanently won’t fix that. If we want to fix anything it should be time zones. We can’t make everyone happy, and there are always exceptions like shift workers, but the vast majority are detrimentally affected by one more than the other, and that is scientifically proven.

Standard time is called so for a reason, as it should be. The last comments about when schools should start doesn’t make sense. If schools are starting later and kids need to spend the same amount of time per day, then they’re going to be staying that much later as well. So what daylight is being saved? None. The reduced crime stat that is often touted is a half truth at best too, because it’s not it like criminals suddenly have one less hour of darkness to play with. The earth is still rotating at the same constant speed, and they’ll simply wait until dark regardless of it happening at 5 or 6.
The articles says some experts want more research. The article cited that months after the change people's body clocks don't adjust but that could just be tied to the change in time and could take longer to fully adjust (it only takes me like a week). Or perhaps the sun rising too early in the summer, that makes it harder for me to sleep when the sun is up and I still have at least 3 more hours of sleep. Having a late night on a day off and you can easily sleep more time with the sun up than down and that's with DST in effect. The sun up at 4am is only worse if it was ST. Also, many countries do have permanent DST so you can study those people's body clocks. The thing about schools has nothing to with anything you said. The time schools start now is only harming kids because they start school too early. Maybe if the sun rises later, schools will change their times to something reasonable for kids.

During puberty, adolescents become sleepy later at night and need to sleep later in the morning as a result in shifts in biological rhythms.

 

hanselthecaretaker

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The articles says some experts want more research. The article cited that months after the change people's body clocks don't adjust but that could just be tied to the change in time and could take longer to fully adjust (it only takes me like a week). Or perhaps the sun rising too early in the summer, that makes it harder for me to sleep when the sun is up and I still have at least 3 more hours of sleep. Having a late night on a day off and you can easily sleep more time with the sun up than down and that's with DST in effect. The sun up at 4am is only worse if it was ST. Also, many countries do have permanent DST so you can study those people's body clocks. The thing about schools has nothing to with anything you said. The time schools start now is only harming kids because they start school too early. Maybe if the sun rises later, schools will change their times to something reasonable for kids.

During puberty, adolescents become sleepy later at night and need to sleep later in the morning as a result in shifts in biological rhythms.
If only the rest of the world ran on such a later schedule, then maybe shifting school hours even later wouldn’t be as big a deal. As it is, it’d just be setting kids up for that much harsher of a culture shock when they enter the work force. Most science has been based on circadian rhythms that our bodies follow the sun, so “time” is only really as relevant as we try to manipulate it to be. If anything getting a good night’s sleep should be most difficult in the summer when a vast majority of time is daylight.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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If only the rest of the world ran on such a later schedule, then maybe shifting school hours even later wouldn’t be as big a deal. As it is, it’d just be setting kids up for that much harsher of a culture shock when they enter the work force. Most science has been based on circadian rhythms that our bodies follow the sun, so “time” is only really as relevant as we try to manipulate it to be. If anything getting a good night’s sleep should be most difficult in the summer when a vast majority of time is daylight.
There's no reason for kids to be getting up as early as they are. It's not preparing them for being adults and working. Kids aren't just little people where you can apply the same principles to them as adults. Googling what time school starts in France and the UK shows they start school later than the US, are they not prepared for adulthood? Not getting enough sleep and being tired at school is not helping our kids.

I really don't get how ST is so much better than DST (if we're doing one of these permanently) to call someone an idiot for wanting one over the other, it's just so ridiculous to me. No matter which one we choose, our sleeping is not going to be in rhythm with the sun because our routines like work don't allow for that because we do things by the time vs where the sun is. ST is probably better in the winter for that rhythm but DST is probably better in the summer for that rhythm so it comes off as a wash to me. Sure, you can say ST would be better at allowing people to sleep at the normal rhythm more as you can go to sleep at like 8pm in the summer and get up at 4am and then they can then get up when the sun is up the winter and be on time for work (whereas on DST it would be dark); however, who is actually sleeping on that type of schedule? Probably not even 0.1% of the population. The time change is probably the most harming part and getting rid of that is good. And if staying on DST makes schools open later, then DST is going to provide the most benefits IMO.