Sequels and the Death of Novelty

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Karadalis

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Dunno... this sounds like complaining that there are still lightsabers and stormtroopers in star wars movies beyond the first one.

Sure the surprise isnt there anymore but that doesnt mean you cant discover new and before unknown things about all the stuff in fallout...

IF BETHESDA ACTUALLY WAS GOOD AT WRITING!

Take new vegas and caesars legion for example... or heck MR House and his robot army. The BOS was a miniscule faction in that one and showed just how out of date a relic they had become while everyone around them just simply moved on with the times.

Just to go back to fallout 4 and somehow making it the strongest military faction to date again.... in a wasteland that hasnt shown any progress in 200 years after the bombs fell... where you still can find edible food in fridges in ruined build... i better stop here
 

ExileNZ

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I dunno about anyone else, but I like the mix of old and new.

Fallout 2 had the Enclave, who brought the Brotherhood of Steel into stark contrast and revealed them to not be the biggest fish in the pond. Sure the Brotherhood were still there, but they took a visible back seat in both power and importance to the story.
That said, while I'm all for powerarmour, make us work for it - if I'm going to find it in half an hour, I want that to be because I re-started and knew exactly where to go and what to do, not because that was practically the end of the tutorial.
In any case, while Fallout 4 still has the BoS, it also keeps introducing new players on the power-and-politics scene, so it's nice to see a familiar face once in a while, even if it's the face of an organisation.

As for Deus Ex, it doesn't so much have the same conspiracy of it as a much earlier (and simpler) version of it. It's no news to anyone that the original Deus Ex didn't have so much a conspiracy as every conspiracy - Illuminati, Area 51, aliens, mutant clones and genetic manipulation, perpetuated endless war, "stuff" in the water, etc etc etc ad nauseum.
DXHR brought it all down to one shadowy organisation quite different from the one it shared a name with in Deus Ex, played up the political ties and influence more. Rather than 'they control everything' it showed us more specific examples of the kinds of things they were doing and how this affected the world at large. Then there are the Tyrants, who may work for the Illuminati but are a far cry from the shadowy figures hidden behind screens. We also get corporate back-door dealing, the anti-aug movement, that smug asshole I punched in the face in the last level... plenty of other players who were either unseen or completely non-existent in the original game.

Other than that, I do agree with a fair few of his points.
 

ExileNZ

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Karadalis said:
where you still can find edible food in fridges in ruined build... i better stop here
The food's still edible because the food's all irradiated so the bacteria can't survive :D
 

ExileNZ

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Seth Carter said:
(snip)
Deathclaws - Prettysure also shouldn't be in New England, aren't they a desert lizard evolved?
(snip)
The forced time progression does hurt the series though, as you get farther and farther out, and it makes less and less sense how civilization seems to have gotten frozen, or unlooted ruins still exist.
Spoiler alert, Deathclaws are aliens. I can't remember if that's from Fallout 1 or 2, but I do remember killing the queen at one stage and there were plenty of logs and lore sources to imply they came down on an asteroid or something. The smart ones were an Enclave experiment but I don't know if any showed up after Fallout 2. That said, maybe Fallout 3 shed some new light on the subject.

As for civilisation, it hasn't been frozen - humanity was effectively nuked back to the stone age, with a few places with more advanced tech and weaponry surviving and slowly spreading out. In any case, it takes ages to see any notable advances and they have taken ages - but if you compare a place like New Washington or Boston to anywhere outside a vault or Brotherhood bunker, you'll see a marked difference. To memory, The Hub was the biggest, fanciest, most up-to-date surface city in Fallout 1, and it looked like a shanty town out of Mad Max. Anywhere with better tech tended to be pre-war, so either a vault or a hidden military installation. 70 years later, Fallout 2 had people slowly re-converting the ruined cities back to habitable zones. New Washington from Fallout 3 is comparatively modern and all this wide-spread tech in Fallout 4 is showing some remarkable progress - even if the tech is often being hoarded.

Kinda with you on the un-looted ruins, though aside from the BoS and other tech-hoarders most people still can't travel all that far/fast.
 

Karadalis

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ExileNZ said:
Karadalis said:
where you still can find edible food in fridges in ruined build... i better stop here
The food's still edible because the food's all irradiated so the bacteria can't survive :D
I guess no one got the idea to check all the nuka cola vending machines and all those ruined houses for food and supplies... in over 200 years...

ExileNZ said:
Seth Carter said:
(snip)
Deathclaws - Prettysure also shouldn't be in New England, aren't they a desert lizard evolved?
(snip)
The forced time progression does hurt the series though, as you get farther and farther out, and it makes less and less sense how civilization seems to have gotten frozen, or unlooted ruins still exist.
Spoiler alert, Deathclaws are aliens. I can't remember if that's from Fallout 1 or 2, but I do remember killing the queen at one stage and there were plenty of logs and lore sources to imply they came down on an asteroid or something. The smart ones were an Enclave experiment but I don't know if any showed up after Fallout 2. That said, maybe Fallout 3 shed some new light on the subject.
nope nope nope... deathclaws are NOT aliens. They are chameleons that where exposed to the FEV virus mixed with DNA from alot of other animals according to official fallout canon.

What you killed where the Gyger esque aliens in the mines of redding (i think thats the name of the mining town where you can join caravans as a guard) and the lower decks of the tanker you used to get to the enclave base oil rig platform.

However it was possible and prolly canon that the local INTELLIGENT deathclaw population was completly whiped out by the enclave during fallout 2. However there where still plenty of non intelligent deathclaws to be found around the wasteland.
 

Havtorn

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Bethesda, specifically, are a bit wierd in regards to the Fallout franchise and the sequel problem. They've shown that they don't have any trouble coming up with new ideas within the bounds of canon but then they sort of hide that behind layers of the type of sad retreading this article was about. Fallout 3 is a great example. There's a ton of creative vaults, settlements and movements that touch on a lot of stuff the previous games didn't. So what's the story about?

(Sproiler varhnung!)
The Enclave trying to commit megagenocide by killing everyone even slightly mutated (ie. anyone not them)... again. Didn't we already blow these guys up for this in the last game? So they try to do it via water and not air now, but what the hell? And once you start noticing _one_ thing that's suspiciously similar you'll start to notice other things... Like, for example, what the hell is the BoS even doing here, it's like they just showed up because they heard a Fallout game was on? And isn't Rivet City essentially the San Fran tanker again, only with a weaker plot point to make the player go there?

The main plot and actors seem like they belong in a game where the developer is desperately out of ideas, which Fallout 3 really wasn't. For some, this won't be a problem. Either the repetition doesn't get to them (or register) or they just went out into the wilderness and experience anything but the main story, avoiding it like the plauge. Many argue that's how Bethesda games are "Supposed" to be played

Compare this with the diffrence between Fallout 1 and 2. In F1, the bad guy was a dude who had been turned into psychic snot on a monitor who wanted to evolve humanity to thrive in a post-nuclear environment. He accomplished this by wrapping an apparently amicable and largely oblivious missionary cult around itself so that he could "Trancend" it's inner circle into his super-mutants. In F2 there isn't even really an obvious bad guy until out of (almost) nowhere your primitive tribe gets abducted for reasons unknown, and after that it's the aforementioned mutaphobic Enclave/You-Ess-Ay. Say what you will about the plots but you couldn't figure out F2 based on having played F1.
 

SilverUchiha

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Good sequel examples.... hm...

Pokemon Gold/Silver was perfect. You could revisit the Kanto region, but only after exploring the whole new area and even the Kanto region has changed a lot since you were there before. Team Rocket had even gone through lots of changes since the previous games (sadly). And it's debatable about the later games as well. They don't build on the existing lore the first two games made, but go to all knew regions to establish new lore. Granted, some of it connects like how Diamond/Pearl talk about the origin of the species (god Pokemon and stuff).

Portal 2 actually did a good job with its sequel work as well. Same labs, same hero, and same villain (for a little bit). But things go inevitably wrong for everyone at a certain point and you're left to explore abandoned parts of the Aperture labs and learn the history of the horrible place and the origin of GlaDOS herself. And this is on top of new mechanics and puzzles (though the puzzles felt easier this time around than in the previous game).

After reading the article and thinking of Skyrim... yeah, Bethesda has a relatively crap record of repeating themselves and their set-ups so that the stories kind of feel a little uninspired. I think the Elder Scrolls series gets away with it better than the Fallout series just on the grounds that the fantasy setting can be more easily varied than nuclear wastelands where everything looks destroyed. But from a narrative perspective, yeah, both have kind of the same problems to some extent.
 

Lightknight

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Sequels are fine and fun. We still get new IPs at roughly the same rate as we did in the 90's so I'm really not concerned. That's without counting the well established indie market too.

Sequels have their place, new IPs have theirs too.

Besides, you didn't really know what was in the world of Fallout 4. The enemies may have been similar but the world was really different. And there were new enemies and surprises. Each environment still has all the elements of exploration and the settlement mechanic alone warranted a new game.

So I'm simply not going to cry a river over some components of a game being the same as a predecessor.
 

Redvenge

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Karadalis said:
ExileNZ said:
Seth Carter said:
(snip)
Deathclaws - Prettysure also shouldn't be in New England, aren't they a desert lizard evolved?
(snip)
The forced time progression does hurt the series though, as you get farther and farther out, and it makes less and less sense how civilization seems to have gotten frozen, or unlooted ruins still exist.
Spoiler alert, Deathclaws are aliens. I can't remember if that's from Fallout 1 or 2, but I do remember killing the queen at one stage and there were plenty of logs and lore sources to imply they came down on an asteroid or something. The smart ones were an Enclave experiment but I don't know if any showed up after Fallout 2. That said, maybe Fallout 3 shed some new light on the subject.
nope nope nope... deathclaws are NOT aliens. They are chameleons that where exposed to the FEV virus mixed with DNA from alot of other animals according to official fallout canon.
"Originally created before the Great War by the government to replace troops in battle, deathclaws are derived from mixed animal stock, primarily from the very popular Jackson Chameleon. They were then refined by the Master using genetic manipulation and the Forced Evolutionary Virus. The resulting creature is very fast and powerful" - Matt Norton, Lead Designer of Fallout 2, from Fallout 2 Official Strategies and Secrets Guide

Another fun fact, the original concept for deathclaws was a hairy mammal. Due to a technical limitation of the rendering software, the hair on deathclaws would not move properly, so they removed it and re-wrote the lore for them to be based on the Jackson Chameleon.
 

CaitSeith

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Lightknight said:
Sequels are fine and fun. We still get new IPs at roughly the same rate as we did in the 90's so I'm really not concerned. That's without counting the well established indie market too.

Sequels have their place, new IPs have theirs too.

Besides, you didn't really know what was in the world of Fallout 4. The enemies may have been similar but the world was really different. And there were new enemies and surprises. Each environment still has all the elements of exploration and the settlement mechanic alone warranted a new game.

So I'm simply not going to cry a river over some components of a game being the same as a predecessor.
I'm doubtful of the first part. Probably some numbers would help there. For the rest, I think is a case by case scenario. Some developers are better at making sequels with reused assets, and others on making new stories like in the Final Fantasy series. I think it can get monotonous to being introduced to the same characters and mechanics in the third sequel (because that may be the first time for several people); but that's a fail in the execution. Heck, it doesn't even need to be an old IP to feel stale. For example, a lot of people like The Evil Within. But people who have played lots of games since mid-2000s (specially those who play every major release) probably will tell you that it felt like an amalgam of game cliches. "Been there, done that, and it was better the first time"
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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I think this is part of why I feel that New Vegas is the better game. Instead of trying to recreate that "exiting the vault for the first time" feeling that only the newest of players can possibly experience anymore (and even they can just go back and play Fallout 3), they put you in the shoes of a guy who already lives in the wasteland and give you an interesting story about a battle for Hover Damn to distract you from the fact that you're basically playing the same game that you were a few years ago.
 

Lightknight

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CaitSeith said:
Lightknight said:
Sequels are fine and fun. We still get new IPs at roughly the same rate as we did in the 90's so I'm really not concerned. That's without counting the well established indie market too.

Sequels have their place, new IPs have theirs too.

Besides, you didn't really know what was in the world of Fallout 4. The enemies may have been similar but the world was really different. And there were new enemies and surprises. Each environment still has all the elements of exploration and the settlement mechanic alone warranted a new game.

So I'm simply not going to cry a river over some components of a game being the same as a predecessor.
I'm doubtful of the first part. Probably some numbers would help there. For the rest, I think is a case by case scenario. Some developers are better at making sequels with reused assets, and others on making new stories like in the Final Fantasy series. I think it can get monotonous to being introduced to the same characters and mechanics in the third sequel (because that may be the first time for several people); but that's a fail in the execution. Heck, it doesn't even need to be an old IP to feel stale. For example, a lot of people like The Evil Within. But people who have played lots of games since mid-2000s (specially those who play every major release) probably will tell you that it felt like an amalgam of game cliches. "Been there, done that, and it was better the first time"
The evolution of the market to support Indie developers alone would make my statement true. Especially with titles like Limbo, Stanley Parable, Minecraft, Banner Saga and such. But I'm assuming that we'll want to address AAA games only even though some indie games have absolutely rocked the market as though they were AAA.

Are you under the impression that there were a ton of new IPs created in the 90's? There weren't. Nintendo was in full Mario milking mode with a ton of spinoffs but not new Ips. Pokemon via a 2nd party and Kirby would be the shining exceptions and Smash Bros could be an example if you ignored it being a spinoff of multiple IPs. But even being generous we're not even talking one for every year for the undisputed heavyweight champion of that console generation and the second place studio that is Sega wasn't producing anything that could rightly be called "IPs" so much as just games centered around things. It's why except for Sonic they have such horrible brand recognition despite having produced a lot of fun games. Keep in mind that this is slightly unfair to Nintendo because they preferred to innovate with new gameplay mechanics rather than new IPs. Even so, my "less than a game per year" was being generous enough to include those drastically new mechanic games.

When Sony showed up in 97' we did see some nice new IPs but overall the decade fared worse than we fare now in five year periods. It's because the market is hugely profitable now with a lot more major development studios.

So just think, what are the big name new IPs of the last ten years compared to the big name NEW IPs of the 90's? I mean, we still have Bioshock, Portal, Assassin's Creed, Mirror's Edge, The Last of Us, Gears of War, Red Dead Redemption, Watchdogs, Destiny, Borderlands, Splatoon, God of War (2005), Ni No Kuni, Dead Space, Little Big Planet, Heavy Rain, L.A. Noire, Dark Souls, inFamous, Batman Arkham Series (Questionable about it being a new IP so feel free to disregard like you would the drastic reboot that Fallout 3 represented), Uncharted, Resistance, Dead Island, Dishonored, Rage, Deadspace, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, The Witcher, Metro 2033, and so many others. These are just the first titles that came to my brain jellies that I've actually played and have sold millions of copies. I literally am just stopping my list because I just went to VGCharts to look at the top games from 2005 forward that were original IPs and realized I would be here for a much longer time. I mean, the list of tremendously popular AAA games is increasing dramatically. We're entering an age in which gaming is becoming like movies to the point where we can't play all the major games that come out in a given year. Were you a gamer in the 90's? There was solid time between the release of good games. Now we can't keep up and people now complain about their backlog of great games for goodness sake. I can't keep up either and I now have more time than ever to do so. None of this go to school and then go to work to pay for games nonsense. Just big-boy work and then games.

This isn't even getting into iOS gaming. The Apple iPhone (1st generation) came out in 2007. Every title developed for smartphones is well within ten years of us now and more than likely in the last five years.

The proliferation of sequels in the market isn't a sign of a failure to produce new IPs, it's a sign of success at having produced so many successful new IPs recently.
 

sXeth

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ExileNZ said:
As for civilisation, it hasn't been frozen - humanity was effectively nuked back to the stone age, with a few places with more advanced tech and weaponry surviving and slowly spreading out. In any case, it takes ages to see any notable advances and they have taken ages - but if you compare a place like New Washington or Boston to anywhere outside a vault or Brotherhood bunker, you'll see a marked difference. To memory, The Hub was the biggest, fanciest, most up-to-date surface city in Fallout 1, and it looked like a shanty town out of Mad Max. Anywhere with better tech tended to be pre-war, so either a vault or a hidden military installation. 70 years later, Fallout 2 had people slowly re-converting the ruined cities back to habitable zones. New Washington from Fallout 3 is comparatively modern and all this wide-spread tech in Fallout 4 is showing some remarkable progress - even if the tech is often being hoarded.

Kinda with you on the un-looted ruins, though aside from the BoS and other tech-hoarders most people still can't travel all that far/fast.
In the stone age though, primitive man hadn't even the basic ideas of much of the technology, nevermind the methods of their creation (theory or practical). In Fallout, the survivors are surrounded by practical models of the ideas, and even hither and thither the supplies, documentation, and means to create them. There's even pre-war entities around (preserved via Vaults, Ghouls, AIs, etc) that can definitively identify objects and their purpose (IE that a car is a car, and not some weird sleeping capsule or something). There's schools, legal systems, governments, religions, libraries, militaries, economy, long distance communications, etc. If it were a Civ game, they're clearly somewhere midway down the tech tree with only a few barriers hindering a return to the industrial age in terms of reclaiming raw resources (assuming the world wasn't completely tapped out, I don't recall if Fallout also took on Mad Max's "We consumed everything already" standpoint)
 

CaitSeith

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Lightknight said:
CaitSeith said:
Lightknight said:
Sequels are fine and fun. We still get new IPs at roughly the same rate as we did in the 90's so I'm really not concerned. That's without counting the well established indie market too.

Sequels have their place, new IPs have theirs too.

Besides, you didn't really know what was in the world of Fallout 4. The enemies may have been similar but the world was really different. And there were new enemies and surprises. Each environment still has all the elements of exploration and the settlement mechanic alone warranted a new game.

So I'm simply not going to cry a river over some components of a game being the same as a predecessor.
I'm doubtful of the first part. Probably some numbers would help there. For the rest, I think is a case by case scenario. Some developers are better at making sequels with reused assets, and others on making new stories like in the Final Fantasy series. I think it can get monotonous to being introduced to the same characters and mechanics in the third sequel (because that may be the first time for several people); but that's a fail in the execution. Heck, it doesn't even need to be an old IP to feel stale. For example, a lot of people like The Evil Within. But people who have played lots of games since mid-2000s (specially those who play every major release) probably will tell you that it felt like an amalgam of game cliches. "Been there, done that, and it was better the first time"
The evolution of the market to support Indie developers alone would make my statement true. Especially with titles like Limbo, Stanley Parable, Minecraft, Banner Saga and such. But I'm assuming that we'll want to address AAA games only even though some indie games have absolutely rocked the market as though they were AAA.

Are you under the impression that there were a ton of new IPs created in the 90's? There weren't. Nintendo was in full Mario milking mode with a ton of spinoffs but not new Ips. Pokemon via a 2nd party and Kirby would be the shining exceptions and Smash Bros could be an example if you ignored it being a spinoff of multiple IPs. But even being generous we're not even talking one for every year for the undisputed heavyweight champion of that console generation and the second place studio that is Sega wasn't producing anything that could rightly be called "IPs" so much as just games centered around things. It's why except for Sonic they have such horrible brand recognition despite having produced a lot of fun games. Keep in mind that this is slightly unfair to Nintendo because they preferred to innovate with new gameplay mechanics rather than new IPs. Even so, my "less than a game per year" was being generous enough to include those drastically new mechanic games.

When Sony showed up in 97' we did see some nice new IPs but overall the decade fared worse than we fare now in five year periods. It's because the market is hugely profitable now with a lot more major development studios.

So just think, what are the big name new IPs of the last ten years compared to the big name NEW IPs of the 90's? I mean, we still have Bioshock, Portal, Assassin's Creed, Mirror's Edge, The Last of Us, Gears of War, Red Dead Redemption, Watchdogs, Destiny, Borderlands, Splatoon, God of War (2005), Ni No Kuni, Dead Space, Little Big Planet, Heavy Rain, L.A. Noire, Dark Souls, inFamous, Batman Arkham Series (Questionable about it being a new IP so feel free to disregard like you would the drastic reboot that Fallout 3 represented), Uncharted, Resistance, Dead Island, Dishonored, Rage, Deadspace, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, The Witcher, Metro 2033, and so many others. These are just the first titles that came to my brain jellies that I've actually played and have sold millions of copies. I literally am just stopping my list because I just went to VGCharts to look at the top games from 2005 forward that were original IPs and realized I would be here for a much longer time. I mean, the list of tremendously popular AAA games is increasing dramatically. We're entering an age in which gaming is becoming like movies to the point where we can't play all the major games that come out in a given year. Were you a gamer in the 90's? There was solid time between the release of good games. Now we can't keep up and people now complain about their backlog of great games for goodness sake. I can't keep up either and I now have more time than ever to do so. None of this go to school and then go to work to pay for games nonsense. Just big-boy work and then games.

This isn't even getting into iOS gaming. The Apple iPhone (1st generation) came out in 2007. Every title developed for smartphones is well within ten years of us now and more than likely in the last five years.

The proliferation of sequels in the market isn't a sign of a failure to produce new IPs, it's a sign of success at having produced so many successful new IPs recently.
Question: why are you focusing in the 90s and not in the PS2 era?
 

CaitSeith

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Lightknight said:
Saying that Nintendo only went Mario milking mode in the 90s is making F-Zero, Pilotwings, Super Scope 6 and Star Fox a big disservice (not to mention Super Metroid, Zelda: A Link to the Past, Super Punch-Out and SimCity). But besides that, this isn't about Nintendo. This is about the entire game generation. No matter if it was developed by Nintendo, HAL, Rare, Atlus, Sega, Capcom, Konami, Lucasarts, Maxis, Squaresoft, Activision, Bandai, Blizzard, id Software, Sierra, Broderbund, Bullfrog, Data East, EA, Infogrames, Psygnosis, Software Creations, Taito, Tecmo, Sunsoft, Zoom, Toho or Coconuts Japan. We are talking about the rate of new IPs vs. sequels.

EDIT: And if the game's name relevance is concern, let's keep it at AA games and above.
 

Lightknight

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CaitSeith said:
Lightknight said:
Saying that Nintendo only went Mario milking mode in the 90s is making F-Zero, Pilotwings, Super Scope 6 and Star Fox a big disservice (not to mention Super Metroid, Zelda: A Link to the Past, Super Punch-Out and SimCity). But besides that, this isn't about Nintendo. This is about the entire game generation. No matter if it was developed by Nintendo, HAL, Rare, Atlus, Sega, Capcom, Konami, Lucasarts, Maxis, Squaresoft, Activision, Bandai, Blizzard, id Software, Sierra, Broderbund, Bullfrog, Data East, EA, Infogrames, Psygnosis, Software Creations, Taito, Tecmo, Sunsoft, Zoom, Toho or Coconuts Japan. We are talking about the rate of new IPs vs. sequels.

EDIT: And if the game's name relevance is concern, let's keep it at AA games and above.
Emphasis on NEW IPs. The Legend of Zelda and the first Metroid came out in 1986. Super Punch Out is from 1984 (arcade game partially published by Nintendo that was also re-released on everything from the commodore 16 to MS-DOS in 1985). SimCity is from 1989.

F-Zero and Pilotwings were new IPs but I certainly wouldn't categorize them alongside these others as far as one of the greats. Let me know if you think I should consider either more highly. F-Zero appeared to have more of a legacy of how it impacted racing gaming than whether or not it was fun itself.

Super Scope 6 required you to buy a super scope and wasn't really any new "IP" to speak of. There's nothing copy writable about being able to shoot down targets on the screen. Only 1.5 million scopes were ever sold world wide. The thing required 6 AA batteries and was fully drained in a few hours. Only 9 compatible games were ever made for the scope after Super Scope 6 failed to sell enough hardware at launch. This is considered to be one of the handful of failures Nintendo brought to market and had to abandon.

Ooh, Starfox was the third major IP I keep forgetting about in the 90's. That's a good one. I loved that one.

But again, I want you to realize that this was bar-none the biggest player in the game and these are the titles you are bringing up. Yes, Kirby, Starfox, and Pok?mon have planted themselves firmly into gaming lore, but it's not that much compared to the 2000's or even the past five years of the 2015's.

As for the list of other studios, we're talking about good releases. The 1980's also had a lot of development studios funded by everything from movies to cereal companies and it crashed the market. Quality of title must be considered.

Question: why are you focusing in the 90s and not in the PS2 era?
The point is to show the increase of new popular IPs over time rather than by console generation. It still holds true that the 6th console generation produced more new and popular IPs than the 5th generation just as it is true that a whole lot more profitable games were released. I also have more specific numbers on new IPs and sales from 2007 forward thanks to more robust storage of the information and availability of it online.

I'm just comparing that decade with our last ten years. Dipping into the PS2 generation would just be the five year period between 2000 and 2005. We haven't finished this decade yet and we still have more than the 90's wrought thanks to the size of the industry. The 2000's have more well received new IPs than the 1990s, especially with the introduction of MS and with Sony still being relatively new. To be Frank, Sony has been an IP powerhouse where range of games are considered and created ones that were very popular along with ones that were more niche. Microsoft was particularly good at producing relatively few new IPs but ones that were crazy popular.

The truth of the matter is that in the 80's and 90's we were still learning how to be successful in the industry. The 80's established the demand of games as a real thing but also established that garbage could ruin the market. The 90's saw a lot of chaff having been burned away by the crash of the 80's and began to establish more serious best practices. The 00's built on this and now the industry has never been bigger. We are literally beginning to align with the Movie industry as far as production and catering is concerned.

In any event, what we are witnessing is an upwards trend of new IPs. Here, this is basically the best I can do and these assholes don't let me sort by date so I hope you can appreciate the work I put into enumerating this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

Keep in mind that the list is broken up into franchises with 5+ millions of units sold and successful franchises from the 80's have had decades more time than successful franchises from last year (such as Destiny). Even though there is a larger consumer market now, the additional decades of time still give previous decades a significant advantage with the possibility of having released multiple titles and spinoffs whereas. This means more recent decades having a higher number is extremely significant.

1970s: 1 (Oregon Trail)
1980s:37
1990s:74
2000s:83

2010-2015: Not yet quantifiable. Not only is it half a decade instead of a full decade but the numbers really haven't been officially calculated on a lot of new IPs. For example, we know that the original Last of Us sold more than five million copies by itself and that doesn't include the PS4 port which also sold over four million copies and yet it isn't on the list. Same with Destiny which we know has around 13 million players with 6.3 million copies sold it its first month. The full decade will make a big difference and by 2025 we should not only see the "2010's" as larger than the "2000s", we should also see the "2000s" number be higher whereas the 90's and 80's won't likely increase by that much due to how much time their IPs had to garner five million sales.
 

Broslinger

New member
Jul 4, 2015
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Why do video game writers always have to trash sequels? Is that a guild rule? It's more stale than any sequel game when a string of article about sequels being bad come out whenever there is a great game out that happens to be a sequel. Guess what. Some of the best games ever have 2's and 3's in the titles.

If you guys were ever right about these things, then sequels like Fallout 4 would flop. But you continue to be wrong every single time you bash sequels.

Fallout has a lot of the same elements because people like it from game to game. Fallout is a great series, and the sequels keep building on it. You're wrong, and next time a big sequel comes out and a bunch of people write the same article, they will be wrong too.
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
4,860
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Broslinger said:
Why do video game writers always have to trash sequels? Is that a guild rule? It's more stale than any sequel game when a string of article about sequels being bad come out whenever there is a great game out that happens to be a sequel. Guess what. Some of the best games ever have 2's and 3's in the titles.

If you guys were ever right about these things, then sequels like Fallout 4 would flop. But you continue to be wrong every single time you bash sequels.

Fallout has a lot of the same elements because people like it from game to game. Fallout is a great series, and the sequels keep building on it. You're wrong, and next time a big sequel comes out and a bunch of people write the same article, they will be wrong too.
In line with what you're saying, I strongly recommend checking out this game theory video if you haven't done so already:

<youtube=Cxhs-GLE29Q>

Essentially, even though we claim that we want innovation, we actually flock to sequels in droves and fail to support innovative games financially until subsequent installments. If we enjoy a game, we want more of it. That's what the consumer wants. Yes, we want new games to come out too but we won't be as fervent about them until we've already played them.
 

Broslinger

New member
Jul 4, 2015
69
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Lightknight said:
Broslinger said:
Why do video game writers always have to trash sequels? Is that a guild rule? It's more stale than any sequel game when a string of article about sequels being bad come out whenever there is a great game out that happens to be a sequel. Guess what. Some of the best games ever have 2's and 3's in the titles.

If you guys were ever right about these things, then sequels like Fallout 4 would flop. But you continue to be wrong every single time you bash sequels.

Fallout has a lot of the same elements because people like it from game to game. Fallout is a great series, and the sequels keep building on it. You're wrong, and next time a big sequel comes out and a bunch of people write the same article, they will be wrong too.
In line with what you're saying, I strongly recommend checking out this game theory video if you haven't done so already:

<youtube=Cxhs-GLE29Q>

Essentially, even though we claim that we want innovation, we actually flock to sequels in droves and fail to support innovative games financially until subsequent installments. If we enjoy a game, we want more of it. That's what the consumer wants. Yes, we want new games to come out too but we won't be as fervent about them until we've already played them.
No doubt. The consumer wants a fun game. I know that I personally don't care about innovation if it isn't fun or otherwise meaningful in a gaming experience. I think sequel hate is just a topic that writers can keep tapping for articles. I think that qualifies as irony.