Serious frustratingly lack of ' RPG persistent world' games.

[Tombaugh]

I for the life of me am having trouble finding this kind of game. It's a type of game that makes you feel like you are actually part of it. You come into this world starting as something big or small but ultimately you can play any sort of role available inside of it. I'm having trouble finding this kind of game, and also, it's difficult to me to even define it.

The only games I can think of are: Romance of the Three Kingdoms X and to a smaller extent, Mount & Blade. I've searched outside of the empire type games and also found the newly made Football Manager 2011 is a lot like this as well, compared to other sports management games because it adds RPG elements to the game, letting you talk to players, the press, other coaches, etc and they remember your talks and will bring it up, making you feel like you're a part of it. Spore is also a lot like this, however it doesn't go far enough.. it feels to plotted out. Like step 1, go directly to step 2.
It seems a common element I can tie this idea to is that at any point in the game, you can retire from your events and the game will continue without you and you can experience it from a third person view. The kingdoms will continue to fight and conquer, the soccer clubs will continue to play for the world cup.. (in-game events will still occur and you experience them as your character! particularly in Romance of the Three Kingdoms X I think of this)

A lot of games are like this in theory, such as MMOs, open world games, regular RPGs. But they don't do enough, like the previous example of Spore.

Does anyone understand what I'm talking about? That can help me define this sort of genre, and give me more other varieties of it?

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Gothic would be my first thought. Also, the Elder Scrolls.

 

[conflictofinterests]

Have you tried Minecraft? You should try Minecraft.

 

[E-Penguin]

Have you tried Oblivion or Fallout 3?

I think it's something like that you are looking for.

 

[Tombaugh]

I gave the phrase in my title air quotes because I couldn't exactly label the type of genre this is. Open world RPGs like Oblivion or Fallout 3 or the gothic series is not what I mean at all. You are a fixed character in a fixed world. You're given choices to make but everything is planned to carefully. Minecraft is closer but is too free-roaming and without purpose. Minecraft WOULD be this if: There is a village of humans that is attacked by undead in the night, you can choose to lead the humans to build up and fight off the undead, be an undead and kill the humans, or be a 3rd party at any time, watching what happens and you can intervene if you want, join each faction.. even start your own faction to kill both, etc.

 

[AcacianLeaves]

How old school are you willing to go? Are you just looking for PC titles?

Honestly it sounds like what you really want is good old fashioned Dungeons and Dragons.

 

[Zannah]

You should pretty much try out Morrowind, if you haven't already.

 

[Tombaugh]

I didn't just state PC titles, RoTK X is PS2. I'm actually a big fan and player of D&D, this would be a solution, however I am not and I don't know a DM that is creative enough to provide a world like that and it kind of defeats the purpose if I'm having to create all of it myself. If I plan a campaign like that, I might as well just code a video game.

 

[Peter Andersen]

Subscription Free MMORPG - Guild Wars 2 (2011 expected release) www.guildwars2.com

I included the following excerpt from the Guild Wars 2 wiki which explains the Event System in the game"

"Guild Wars 2 will use a very different system for quests than Guild Wars 1. Instead of the standard green exclamation point above an NPC's head to mark a possible quest, Guild Wars 2 will use a new Event system. In this system, events will happen with or without the presence of the player, and if a player happens to be present at the time of the event, then the player can complete the quest by participating in the event, and the outcome of the event may affect if, or what kind of, an event may happen soon thereafter. Three examples were provided to illustrate how this system may work.
The first example shows the arrival of a dragon near a particular town or village. The players nearby that town or village can choose to fight the dragon. If they are successful, the dragon may flee or die, and the players involved are rewarded by the village elder; if the players fail, the dragon destroys a bridge vital to the village. At that time, the village people attempt to build a new bridge, and the players may help them by fending off a group of bandits that see the opportunity to attack.
In the second example, if a player happens to be inside a garrison when a scouting party returns, they may overhear the scouts warning of an approaching column of centaurs, intent on destroying the garrison. The players can then participate in defending the garrison from the attacking centaurs. If the players are successful, the garrison may ask them to participate in a counterattack. If they are not successful, or if they weren't at the garrison in time to save the garrison, they may join other soldiers from a nearby town attempting to recapture the garrison.
The third example involves a player walking along a familiar road, but this time they happen upon a caravan traveling along the road. They can choose to travel with the caravan, and defend it from roving bandits, or not.
These events may overlap. For example, you are asked to escort the caravan to the garrison. But when you arrive at the garrison you find out it is being attacked by the centaurs. The two events may have nothing to do with each other, but in order to receive the rewards for escorting the caravan, you would have to fend off the centaurs from the garrison, resulting in you doing two events at once."

Furthermore, most events are part of an event chain. So when one finishes, it continues on to another and this can go in either direction depending on if you succeed or fail the event.

 

[Tombaugh]

You should pretty much try out Morrowind, if you haven't already.

I played Oblivion for a long time, actually. It just felt like you had a storyline to play through, you could go off and do other things and do side quests, but it felt like the world 'froze' until you came back and started doing the main quest again. Is Morrowind or even Daggerfall any different?

 

[Twilight_guy]

I think you need a new term "persistent world" RPGs exist int he form of MMORPGS like WoW where the world goes no if the player is playing or not. All MMO are by definition persistent worlds since they are constantly running regardless of players. Single player games or small mulitplayer games tend to not be like this since the game exists in a discrete unit of time and works around the player while MMOs work on a more client/server based basis where you simply put yourself into a game rather then having the game build for you. It's possible to program a game that runs without you playing but largely pointless in most situations. Animal Crossing was sudo-persistent in that it simulated ongoing changes but an actual game that that is locally persistent would need to run at all times and probably be kind of expensive in terms of power and CPU.

 

[Nomanslander]

Gothic would be my first thought. Also, the Elder Scrolls.

My problem with these games is they always feel like 3rd rate LOTR hand-me-downs....this includes Dragon Age....-_-

For once I'd like to see a fantasy RPG dealing with Greek or hell even Hindu myths....-_-

 

[Tombaugh]

I don't understand this problem.

I have lots of games that are persistent.

Play more D&D! We always need more players

I don't know of any GM and/or group with enough patience to try to turn a campaign into something else because I feel like we should sympathize with the kobolds and raze the nearby town. D:

Besides, if I can only count on one hand the amount of games that allow this kind of freedom and one is a pen&paper RPG.. there is something wrong. No one else can find what I'm talking about?

 

[Imbechile]

Have you tried Vampire Bloodlines?

 

[Tombaugh]

I think you need a new term "persistent world" RPGs exist int he form of MMORPGS like WoW where the world goes no if the player is playing or not. All MMO are by definition persistent worlds since they are constantly running regardless of players. Single player games or small mulitplayer games tend to not be like this since the game exists in a discrete unit of time and works around the player while MMOs work on a more client/server based basis where you simply put yourself into a game rather then having the game build for you. It's possible to program a game that runs without you playing but largely pointless in most situations. Animal Crossing was sudo-persistent in that it simulated ongoing changes but an actual game that that is locally persistent would need to run at all times and probably be kind of expensive in terms of power and CPU.

I mentioned that I couldn't 'coin' the genre perfectly. MMO's fit the bill quite nicely. Except that 99 percent of the time you are in a persistent world that you CAN'T interact fully with it. That dragon will keep respawning, no one will care if you manage to delete it from the game world, 200,000 other people do it daily. I don't mean literally that it is a game world that keeps moving, even when you're not playing, not like harvest moon or animal crossing. It just makes you feel like the world keeps on going and your actions affect it.

 

[Tombaugh]

I don't understand this problem.

I have lots of games that are persistent.

Play more D&D! We always need more players

I don't know of any GM and/or group with enough patience to try to turn a campaign into something else because I feel like we should sympathize with the kobolds and raze the nearby town. D:

Besides, if I can only count on one hand the amount of games that allow this kind of freedom and one is a pen&paper RPG.. there is something wrong. No one else can find what I'm talking about?

Sorry. I don't see it :\

Good luck in your search.

Thanks. I fear it will be quite a search..

Have you tried Vampire Bloodlines?

Yes I have. Maybe I wasn't paying attention but it is the same as Oblivion, yes? You follow a single storyline despite the different side objectives. I did like however that you had multiple vampire clans to choose from, which got me interested in the first place.. if only they allowed you to play the story through different viewpoints based on your faction it would be a lot closer to this sacred genre I'm describing.

 

[Tombaugh]

Gothic would be my first thought. Also, the Elder Scrolls.

My problem with these games is they always feel like 3rd rate LOTR hand-me-downs....this includes Dragon Age....-_-

For once I'd like to see a fantasy RPG dealing with Greek or hell even Hindu myths....-_-

You can try Numen: Contest of Heroes. It's a Mythical Greece setting. Prety bare bones gameplay wise but a unique setting. Or some of the other Bioware RPGs like Jade Empire have a unique setting.

Getting back to the topic, after thinking about it I think a closer genre title would be 'RPG with Management Sim. elements' but that's not quite right.. any suggestions? >>'