Sex Ed: The Blueball Edition in HD and locked at 30fps

[Redryhno]

Just let people do what they prefer, children learn eventually through either observation, talk or trial and at worst will have some awkward moments.

You're forgetting about STDs, teenage pregnancy, and rape, to name a few. There's a lot worse that can happen than "some awkward moments".

This may just be me, but I don't think rape is exactly something that can be avoided by taking sex ed...Hell, most warning signs aren't something people taking the class in their teens are going to be able to pick up on beyond "watch what/how much you drink". And the ones that are aren't going to be in many of the positions that precipitate the warnings to begin with.

OT:

Personally I had a decent sex ed subsection I suppose. Old coach in the last few years of his career so firing him meant more problems than keeping him, didn't really so much talk about STDs, pregnancy or any of those things in detail. More along the lines of "be careful who you sleep with". Honestly I think that's what any class like that should loop around with. To a point I also support abstinence, to hell with what people think, your body, your choice.

 

[Redryhno]

Some school districts with high rates of teenage pregnancy have daycares at their higher level schools so that students who have kids can continue to go to school and won't have to drop out to take care of their child during the day.

This may just be me, but I don't think rape is exactly something that can be avoided by taking sex ed...Hell, most warning signs aren't something people taking the class in their teens are going to be able to pick up on beyond "watch what/how much you drink". And the ones that are aren't going to be in many of the positions that precipitate the warnings to begin with.

I was referring more about incidental perpetrators of rapes rather than one preventing themselves from being raped, since there is no real such thing as efficient rape prevention on the part of the victim. Some people who commit rape know they're committing rape and don't care. Folks like the "No means yes, yes means anal" college students in the OP video. They know what they're doing as much as that college student who ate living gerbil, they're not mentally incompetent. Education does not effect them because their behavior is malicious. Then there's some people that just haven't thought through the meaning and consequences of their actions because they're typical inexperienced, short-sighted and hormonal teenagers and commit rape without thinking that they've done anything wrong. This is stuff like people thinking that sex with an unconscious person doesn't require consent. While there's conversations to be had how you treat people who have committed this sort of rape, these instances will continue to happen regardless of how the legal system approaches them. Education wouldn't eliminate acts of malice, and it wouldn't eliminate all incidental rape, but it would eliminate some of it. Usually when somebody broaches the subject of consent and the mental state of the person whose bones they want to jump, I usually just turn the question onto them and ask "If you were inebriated/unconscious/whatever, would you would be okay with a horse's cock you didn't ask for going up your ass?" Its blunt, but it generally teaches people a good rule of thumb, which is "if you're unsure, don't do it". After all, sex isn't like buying a shirt without trying it on first to see if it fits, you can't undo what has been done. It lasts forever in your and possibly their conscience.

Oh...so you mean you want a "teach to not rape" class....yeah, you lost me. Can't get behind that idea at all because more often than not, it's starting from a position of, let's be frank, pure bullshit and assuming guilt before innocence.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Oh...so you mean you want a "teach to not rape" class....yeah, you lost me. Can't get behind that idea at all because more often than not, it's starting from a position of, let's be frank, pure bullshit and assuming guilt before innocence.

Actually what was being said there is @MarsAtlas wants a class that teaches what is consent and what just doesn't qualify. You know avoiding ending up in court without an "explanation"[footnote]excuse[/footnote] that won't fly with a judge, or most juries. Especially in a world where it's possible for people to retroactively revoke consent, and where people who are passed out at parties get taken advantage of while unconscious. Both of which can happen to both sexes.

 

[Redryhno]

Oh...so you mean you want a "teach to not rape" class....yeah, you lost me. Can't get behind that idea at all because more often than not, it's starting from a position of, let's be frank, pure bullshit and assuming guilt before innocence.

Actually what was being said there is @MarsAtlas wants a class that teaches what is consent and what just doesn't qualify. You know avoiding ending up in court without an "explanation"[footnote]excuse[/footnote] that won't fly with a judge, or most juries. Especially in a world where it's possible for people to retroactively revoke consent, and where people who are passed out at parties get taken advantage of while unconscious. Both of which can happen to both sexes.

The thing is, most people are aware of what consent is and isn't already. There's still gonna be those excuses no matter what, the difference is in what people are willing to believe or not, and a class isn't going to teach that, especially at an age when people are still deciding what they want the world to be(or have already "figured " it out and therefore aren't really going to listen beyond it being something in the back of their minds that may or may not come up again).

It's a bit of a waste of time from my perspective is all.

Also, sorry if I read it incorrectly, but it just reads too much like the thousands of "teach _____ to get rid of their ____ urges" for me to be able to stomach going through the whole thing.

Oh...so you mean you want a "teach [insert group here] to not rape" class....yeah, you lost me. Can't get behind that idea at all because more often than not, it's starting from a position of, let's be frank, pure bullshit and assuming guilt before innocence.

Lets switch that around.

"Oh, so you mean a "teach gun owners to not recklessly wave a loaded gun around" class? Yeah, thats bullshit, it assumes guilt."

People hurt and kill each other with guns all the time in accidents. You know how those are typically treated? As accidents. Preventable accidents, but accidents nonetheless. Stuff like that is why we have charges like "reckless endangerment", "voluntary manslaughter" and "negligent homocide". Teaching classes on gun safety won't stop a pre-meditated murder, and it won't stop stuff like this [http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/01/us/kentucky-accidential-shooting/], where they have a complete disregard if not contempt for safety. What it will do, however, is lessen the occurances of accidental deaths like this [http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/] from happening. Gun safety courses prevent injuries and save lives. It won't prevent malicious acts of gun violence and it won't prevent accidents occuring among people who just don't give a damn, but for somebody who doesn't know the right answer the lessons can prevent a tragedy.

Now just like gun violence, not all rape is malicious in intent. Some people know that they're raping a person and they're fine with being an evil bastard. Some people don't really care either way. Most people, however, do care if they're hurting their partner. Now unlike potential gun owners, teenagers are heavily expected by their peers, even by some adults, to perform sexual acts, and to do so as soon as possible. They're ostracized if they don't, they're often ostracized by the very adults who should be helping them for asking about sex, and many don't have access to information from other sources, like a library[footnote]Because some won't include this stuff.[/footnote] or local Planned Parenthood chapter. They don't even necessarily think that what they're doing might be wrong. Most people buy clothing without indication of the working conditions those who made it are under, most people buy animal productions without indication of the condition that they're made under. For them its not that they realize what they're doing is rape and they're okay with it, its that they don't know, sometimes don't even suspect, that is constitutes rape. Thats the difference between somebody understanding that they're doing something wrong and doing it anyways (malice/indifference) and somebody doing something wrong without even suspecting that they're doing something wrong (ignorance). The former is something education can't address because the problem isn't with education, its with the person. The latter, however, is something that can be resolved. There's always going to be villains, but not everybody who does something bad is a villain. People do wrong things completely unaware of the consequences of their actions all the time, its a fundamental part of the human experience. Mistakes happen, and anything that we can do to prevent mistakes that will ruin the lives of two or more people is a venture worth undertaking.

Problems there with the gun class analogy, and you know it. Unless you seriously want to start fully equating gun safety with rape...

And here's where my support on abstinence comes in though. FUCK THE PEOPLE THAT OSTRACIZE ON SOMETHING THAT SIMPLE. Teach that, get people to stop minding the minor teasing and that whether or not someone is a virgin is not a reason to shit on them(though it is largely a guy thing from my experience). But that would require more talk about sex than apparently just STDs and consent, two VERY nebulous things for the most part because until you know someone with either happen to them, the lesson doesn't hit home.

 

[The Lunatic]

We had very little on it in the UK. Similar experience to Sky, but, with ours, it was in a science class, and a bit more analytical than anything on the more social side of things. Which was odd.

That was about it, I mean, we were about 14 at this stage, and nobody was particularly unaware of what it was.

America is a pretty weird place when it comes to this kind of thing.

I mean, on the one hand you have abstinence education, and then on the other, you have various heavily reported instances of false rape claims in the media.

So, it seems you get a double dose with this kind of thing.

Consent is an odd issue to teach. I likely due to various issues that come about from the inequality that we have between men and women when it comes to that kind of thing. Things like withholding information that may affect consent is usually not covered at all. Not that it takes much to figure out "Hey, I should probably tell the person this", but, you know how people are.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

-snip-

Um no consent and STDs are not nebulous things. STDs are a very simple idea, they're diseases that are spread by bodily fluids and/or sexual contact. Consent also is a very simple thing, it's either: "yes lets have sex", "no lets not have sex", if "no" but the sex still happens it's rape.

Edit: Lack of direct acknowledgement in consent means "no". Direct acknowledgement can be non-verbal of course, but that's a pretty good sign you have a receptive partner. Also resisting the advances is also a good indicator of "no".

 

[Thaluikhain]

The thing is, most people are aware of what consent is and isn't already.

Not really. Plenty of people equate being in a relationship, having consented to sex before, agreeing to go on a date or receiving presents as consent. As in, regularly in double digits percentiles on surveys about such things.

Some people who commit rape know they're committing rape and don't care. Folks like the "No means yes, yes means anal" college students in the OP video. They know what they're doing as much as that college student who ate living gerbil, they're not mentally incompetent. Education does not effect them because their behavior is malicious.

Disagree there. They've been taught to expect to get away with that sort of thing, that many/most of their peers will tolerate it, or perhaps praise it. Now, teach them that that is wrong, and that others will see it as such and many (not all), IMHO, will change.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

We had pretty decent Sex Ed at my highschool up here in Indiana.

Even went to some institute, I can't honestly remember the name of it, on a short field trip for a lecture. Was quite god damned uncomfortable subject matter, but they went pretty in depth (That is, doubtlessly, what she said) on the subject.

I remember a lot of awkward questions being raised by classmates and prompt, matter of fact answers from the attending speakers.

Was kinda neat.

But, since I had the internet and had been viewing pornography since the age of...what...11 (first orgasm at about 12, I believe) I already had a pretty firm (HA!) and mature (HA!) understanding of the mechanical aspect of things.

As for consent? Basic shit.

No means no.

...Unless they're one of those people who are really into being dominated, in which case it gets a bit murk- Nah. No still means no, unless you're familiar with your partners kinks. Always best to err on the side of caution anyway. In most things, come to think of it.

 

[The Lunatic]

Snip

It's really not as binary as "Yes means yes" and "No means No" however.

It is a basic level, but, you also have to understand that situations that have a bit more grey to them.

For example, an adulterer who doesn't inform their significant other that they are sleeping with another, is withholding information that may affect consent. Even more so, if the adulterer is unaware of the third party's sexual health, and is thus risking harm by giving their partner an STD. If the partner was aware they were risking an STD and sleeping with somebody whom has betrayed them, they likely would not consent.

Likewise, if a person who identifies as transgendered has sex with a person and refuses to divulge their sex, is that not also withholding information that affects consent? Whilst I don't personally see the logic in it, there are those that define their sexuality as an attraction based on sex rather than gender, and thus to withhold information on this, is holding information that may affect in the consent or not.

These are difficult situations to really resolve, as most people wouldn't say these are cases of rape. However, it can't be denied that these are cases of non-consensual sex. So, there's seemingly a division between the two terms.

 

[Erttheking]

Well I got told about condoms, birth control and STDs at my school (Also that anal was more likely to result in STD transferal than vaginal sex, due to the fact that it kind of wasn't meant to go there and was invented by us being horny bastards) so overall I'd say it was pretty good. I live in MA for the curious.

On that note, the same class also taught me about how drug addiction works, the danger of drinking and driving, the power struggles of abusive relationships, the fact that men can be the victim in abusive relationships, and the mechanics of dysfunctional families. Hell, that class was great.

Oh yeah, just throwing it out there, my class also taught about what constituted as rape and I didn't feel like a rapist.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Just let people do what they prefer, children learn eventually through either observation, talk or trial and at worst will have some awkward moments.

You're forgetting about STDs, teenage pregnancy, and rape, to name a few. There's a lot worse that can happen than "some awkward moments".

I'm not saying no sex ed, just continue what they're doing now. At least saying rape is pretty silly since it's a violent act regardless (unless you involve drugs and then it goes far further then "sex ed").

Well, lets go over a few things being done now in the U.S.


1: The number of states that mandate sexual education= 22 of 50.

2. The number of states that require the information in such classes be medically accurate= 13 of 50.

3. The education over all isn't standardized, thus "what they're doing now" for sex education can change not just from state to state, but from school to school.

As John said on his show, if you had a good sex education, that's a great thing. However, that's not the majority of people sadly. Then again, if only 13 states want the information to be medically accurate, it truly would be mad to expect most people to actually get a good sex education.

 

[FPLOON]

I barely remember the sex-ed classes I had in 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th grade, with that last one ending in a banana with a condom and a free "abstinence" wallet with a "shy guy" in the corner... The one I do remember [the most] was in 6th grade because it was total bullshit from start to finish... I mean, at least with the other grades they were basically boring and/or semi-informative, at best[footnote]It took me a while to finally figure out how someone could get pregnant in the traditional sense and not have a STD/STI-based aftermath to follow after the last sex-ed class in high school...[/footnote], but not only did it show that the teacher didn't give a shit about wanting to teach sex-ed, but already had the mindset that we were already having sex in the first place, which made phrases like "tasting our sex juices", "face-covering STDs", "STD outbreaks are like pimples", and "the porn you kids are watching these days" to sound more condescending than unintentionally humorous in context... Granted, I was taking 6th grade at a school where not only were there were gang-related fights happening almost every day during lunchtime[footnote]Not including the time this one teen got into a fight with the janitor, which lead to few cafeteria windows getting shattered in the process...[/footnote], but also certain teachers, or I'm hoping they were teachers, caught having sex in the classrooms during said lunchtime...

Anyway, if only sex-ed was a more ground version of

Spoiler

what happens at the end of 2004's The Girl Next Door [END SPOILER], then maybe I would remember the good moments more than the bad/boring moments and/or end up getting a better education in college in a much shorter timeframe than any of the sex-ed I had in middle/high school... Then again, I was one of those kids that just really didn't care about sex in general, so there was barely anything that could get me as excited as a pending drug addict learning about new drugs to search for at a drug awareness seminar to begin with...

You know, this reminds me of something I said a long time ago:

So, what you're saying is that we should hire dedicated people to perform standard sex/sexual procedures first-hand to those unfamiliar with the basics of sex and the like?

But seriously, that was the closet I could think of to making something as fundamental as sex being taught similar to how schools teach you how to do [surgery], for example... On paper, it sounds like a "good" solution, I guess, but overall, it's still trial and error just on a "smaller" scale... And, even if you did pass the *cough* hands-on portion of the "class", you're still learning through trial and error because the basics can only take you so far before you end up in an orgy you saw coming, but forgot that Z does some things that weren't mentioned on that written test you took in said "class" a while back...

Overall, you never stop learning and not even if we fucked the middle [wo]man, in terms of "conquering" the basics of sex beforehand... Then again, I just realized I have no idea what I'm talking about since I've never done it, let alone got passed "first base" or whatever slang refers to "kissing in a tree" or something like that, I guess...

Not sure if I was joking or not... At least that last sentence is still true to this day, I guess...

 

[Parasondox]

...Unless they're one of those people who are really into being dominated, in which case it gets a bit murk- Nah. No still means no, unless you're familiar with your partners kinks. Always best to err on the side of caution anyway. In most things, come to think of it.

That's where safe words comes in and communicating with your partner before hand is advised. Making sure things don't go too far and crosses any lines.

 

[Padwolf]

People from the UK: what schools did you guys do to? I went to secondary school in london, a big school called Graveney. We had PSHE which was a once a week lesson. It was sex ed but all year round. For 2 years. It would have been pretty thorough but my class was one of the disruptive types so not much got said or done. So with my class it was moreso ask the teacher lots of questions about sex to see if they could make her uncomfortable. They never succeeded. So all I got was a lot of info about sex, about STD's and all that stuff, but at random times. But they did hand us out books and things on what the syllabus for the years would cover. It looked like it was going to be thorough. Shame my class just didn't let that happen.

Personally I think men and women should have a class on it where they are all together, and then classes on it where they are separate. Girls need to know that the weird freaky shit that goes on with their vaginas is normal. But normal for them.