Sex in RPG's and why it fails.

[Harlemura]

Well, I play games with my parents either in the same room or pretty close by, so I don't really want any sex in games.
If sex had to be in a game, getting into specifics of the act seems silly to me. If I'm playing a game where more thought's gone into how good you are with your ding-dong rather than the actual gameplay, I'll probably want to be playing something else.

 

[Iron Lightning]

Snipity

The problem is that what you're proposing is simply much too controversial for an AAA title. I'm sure you remember how much trouble the media gave them for Mass Effect's love scenes; imagine how much trouble they'd be in if they included BDSM or rape-roleplaying. Aggressive sex is a bit removed from my examples, I admit, but still you can't blame Bioware for wanting to tread a bit lightly especially since they added the option to be homosexual in Dragon Age: Origins.

I believe this goes hand-in-hand with the recent increase in linearity most RPGs are undergoing. Take Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura for example, in which one has the option to roger a prostitute sheep (yes, I'm serious.) Of course, all such scenes are of the implied, cut-to-black variety.

Also, Dragon Age: Origins is a mainstream title, and mainstream titles in all media very rarely have love scenes that are any different to Dragon Age's scenes. Consider the Matrix trilogy in which, at one point, Neo macks Trinity; it's certainly not very different from Player Character macking Morrigan now is it?

There is some hope, however, in that the more beautifully perverse members of Dragon Age's modding community have created mods which allow you to do just what you wish to do.

Whenever I see sex in a game I think, "Wow, [game developers], really?" It's really kind of juvenile.

I'm sorry to say, sir, but it is you who seems to be the juvenile. Honestly, games can't very well mature as an art form if they have an aversion to sex. However, I do agree with you if you mean to say that sex shouldn't be in a game if there is no context for the sex and the game is not, in fact, a porno. Examples of such are the perplexing titty photos one can collect in the remade Splatterhouse.

 

[Wondermint13]

Come on Gamers!!! Dont pretend to be some high and mighty community that snubs sex.
SEX HAPPENS, complaining that games are using it for whatever purpose aint going to make you seem more mature and understanding to the ladies.
Ok, sure they're not always that convincing but atleast a game developer is trying to reward you for saving all those gifts in your inventory or doing a few crap side-quest.
Can't you ungreatful mommy's boys find something better to rant on?

Peace x

 

[Wintermoot]

maybe they can program how you have sex based on your actions (IE create peace a romantic kill a million childeren rough) or maybe add the option of homosexuality but they shouldnt tack it on in the adds like NOW WITH 100% MORE SEXY TYME

 

[CatmanStu]

I find it interesting that a number of people have taken this post as a request for interactive sex mechanics when I never made any reference to actually controlling the sex, just the 'personality' behind it.

When I mention having choice, I am talking about tone not content. It could be something as simple as a dialogue choice (as in Alpha Protocol or Mass Effect) or it could be done more subtly with the tone of the way you chat a character up. I don't even think you need to see the act if it is done right.

 

[Gigano]

Well, more ability to customize and decide your characters actions/choices/behaviour is always good, and if the game generally offers varied approaches, then varied approaches to sexual behaviour could certainly be an option as well.

I don't know how relevant it would be to devote programming time to this though, considering that sex is a vanishingly small part of the game. Not to mention that if your character can get all "dominance" on his/her partner, there'll be hell to pay (in the US, at least), so keeping it standard fare vanilla is probably a good idea if you want to be able to sell to a mainstream audience.

 

[CatmanStu]

The main aspect of an RPG is the ability to mould your characters personality through play style; you can choose to be a pacifist or a vicious killer, a diplomat or a bully; so why take that choice away during romance?

Actually there are lots of RPGs that basically require you to be a vicious killer regardless, since there's no other way to complete quests in many games other than over a stack of bodies. It would be nice if more RPGs really did feature this kind of choice, though.

I was referring more to the moments when you get choices offered rather than combat mechanics, but I can't deny that if an RPG offered combat mechanics that could be non lethal if you so choose, I would be at the front of the queue.

 

[katsumoto03]

Whenever I see sex in a game I think, "Wow, [game developers], really?" It's really kind of juvenile.

I'm sorry to say, sir, but it is you who seems to be the juvenile. Honestly, games can't very well mature as an art form if they have an aversion to sex. However, I do agree with you if you mean to say that sex shouldn't be in a game if there is no context for the sex and the game is not, in fact, a porno. Examples of such are the perplexing titty photos one can collect in the remade Splatterhouse.

Oshit! We need to feign romance between these characters! How do we do that?

SEX IS THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE RELATIONSHIPS SEEM REALZ!!!

/logic

 

[Mittens The Kitten]

Press X to dominate.

 

[Amputatoes]

Sex in games is a tricky subject. IMHO nobody has done it tastefully. Watching the DA:O characters dry hump eachother is extremely juvenile while actual intercourse is definately not needed. Games havn't reached that boundary where they can be taken seriously. DA:O attempts to make a more mature game, but the excess blood, death scenes, modable sex scenes, over exagerated characters ( i.e Zevran) make it less so. Until games are looked at as more than just a child's play thing, I think sex should stay out of it. There are plenty of ways to include "adultify" games without adding sex appeal.

 

[CatmanStu]

Whenever I see sex in a game I think, "Wow, [game developers], really?" It's really kind of juvenile.

I'm sorry to say, sir, but it is you who seems to be the juvenile. Honestly, games can't very well mature as an art form if they have an aversion to sex. However, I do agree with you if you mean to say that sex shouldn't be in a game if there is no context for the sex and the game is not, in fact, a porno. Examples of such are the perplexing titty photos one can collect in the remade Splatterhouse.

Oshit! We need to feign romance between these characters! How do we do that?

SEX IS THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE RELATIONSHIPS SEEM REALZ!!!

/logic

Sex in games is a tricky subject. IMHO nobody has done it tastefully. Watching the DA:O characters dry hump eachother is extremely juvenile while actual intercourse is definately not needed. Games havn't reached that boundary where they can be taken seriously. DA:O attempts to make a more mature game, but the excess blood, death scenes, modable sex scenes, over exagerated characters ( i.e Zevran) make it less so. Until games are looked at as more than just a child's play thing, I think sex should stay out of it. There are plenty of ways to include "adultify" games without adding sex appeal.

I see your points about the way that sex is currently used; more as a tacky reward than part of interesting character development; but I feel that violence is used in just as juvenile a way; excessive gore with no concept of consequences. So either you are both being prejudiced towards sex as a form of creative expression, or you are, like me, disheartened by the overall juvenile nature of the average video game, and making sex the scapegoat for that.

If a person can accept that shooting someone or decapitating someone is acceptable, then two people using the oldest form of intimacy should be just as acceptable.

 

[RabbidKuriboh]

ME2 with tali is probably the best romantic scene bioware could muster and most importantly it cuts to black before anything gratuitous happens


DA however is just terrible for this shit

 

[Iron Lightning]

Whenever I see sex in a game I think, "Wow, [game developers], really?" It's really kind of juvenile.

I'm sorry to say, sir, but it is you who seems to be the juvenile. Honestly, games can't very well mature as an art form if they have an aversion to sex. However, I do agree with you if you mean to say that sex shouldn't be in a game if there is no context for the sex and the game is not, in fact, a porno. Examples of such are the perplexing titty photos one can collect in the remade Splatterhouse.

Oshit! We need to feign romance between these characters! How do we do that?

SEX IS THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE RELATIONSHIPS SEEM REALZ!!!

/logic

What... I don't even....

Perhaps you should reread my post, at no time did I claim that all games with relationships need to have sex. I only wished to say that sex should appear where it is contextually appropriate. You seem to be of the opinion that sex should never appear in a videogame. If this is your point, than I must say that it is preposterous. Why can't videogames be treated with the same dignity as every other artistic medium?

I'll logically prove it to you:

Humans sometimes have sex.
Videogames can be about humans.
Therefore Videogames about humans sometimes feature sex.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Personally, I'd rather they just imply sex. Have the screen fade to black and then a discussion afterward. Or just not have sex in the game. P3 and P4 let you date and fall in love with a character without sex. It always seemed awkward and a little juvenile to have two 3-d models make love.

This, and there's also the fact that if the developers went into the kind of detail with the sex scenes that you talk about it would probably propel the game well into AO territory.

 

[Lilani]

I'm sorry to say, sir, but it is you who seems to be the juvenile. Honestly, games can't very well mature as an art form if they have an aversion to sex. However, I do agree with you if you mean to say that sex shouldn't be in a game if there is no context for the sex and the game is not, in fact, a porno. Examples of such are the perplexing titty photos one can collect in the remade Splatterhouse.

I think it's that non-contextual sex that adds nothing to the game that the person was referring to. For them to say "Wow, developers, really?" implies that it was unexpected and there was nothing leading up to the moment.

Personally, I think if a game wants to have full-blown sex scenes it needs to decide if it wants to be an RPG or just a standard action/adventure with a story. For an RPG which you are supposed to project yourself onto the character (like Fable) to have sex, it needs to have context and choices, as the OP said. However, if the character is established for you and the story is linear, then implied sex tends to work much better.

Unless it's a game like Duke Nukem where players are looking for that sort of thing, having fully-animated sex scenes just come across awkward--and part of that has to do with the medium itself. Seeing a couple of 3-D characters do the do just makes the viewer feel like they're watching some freaky toon-porn on the Internet. Implied sex really helps alleviate that, and allows the scene to come across as more intimate than just purely erotic. It's all about what sort of statement the encounter is needs to make.

 

[magicmonkeybars]

But what about the brothel in Dragon Age Origins ?
The Brothel is the fade to black variety of sex scene and has you just standing in your underwear afterwards.
The Brothel allows you to have sex with men, women, animals or a combination of men and women or multible men or women.

Seems a very over looked part of the game because it doesn't have any graphic display of affection attached to it yet it has option to experiment with nugs.
People are very visual orientated and it's far more acceptable to have implied bestiality than actual nudity.

Beside that I do have to agree that the sex cutscenes are very awkward to watch mostly because of the stock bodies which makes for a very uncanny valley.
I doubt controling it makes it better, the sex minigame in Fahrenheit was pretty awkward to play but the scene leading up to it was well done.
Sex does have a place in games although it does need careful consideration and execution to be tastfull.
Sleeping with Jeanette in Vampire the masquerade bloodlines is atleast kind of interesting to experience, being able to listen in but seeing nothing.

 

[CatmanStu]

But what about the brothel in Dragon Age Origins ?
The Brothel is the fade to black variety of sex scene and has you just standing in your underwear afterwards.
The Brothel allows you to have sex with men, women, animals or a combination of men and women or multible men or women.

The brothel is a good observation because that was the only time DA:O came close to getting it right. Not because of the way it avoided the visual aspect, but because it had a consequence, even if it was a small one. My first play through I was romancing Leliana and the pervert in me couldn't resist the temptation of the brothel; when I came out Leliana was hurt and lost respect for me. Action - consequence.

 

[TheEvilCheese]

That's a good point (in terms of an RPG) but they'd never get away with it.

Generally I think implied sex scenes work better - the Prince and Farah get funky, but they focus mostly on the important thing around that (you know, the L word[footnote]Not lesbian[/footnote]) as opposed to the shagging itself.

I thought the Mass Effect ones were done pretty well though (Ash and male Shep, Miranda and male Shep, and Jack and male Shep are the ones I've got, at any rate).

I think it's the music in the Dragon Age ones that kills it. And the fact that they look like mannequins.

Whenever I see sex in a game I think, "Wow, [game developers], really?" It's really kind of juvenile.

Why? Books have it, films have it, music talks about it.

If you think like that, how are we supposed to get anywhere if we want games to start toeing the maturity line?

is it Lesbians?

 

[Littaly]

There are a couple of things wrong with sex in RPGs, the inability to choose how hard you go at it is not one of them. Likewise, there are a lot of things that should be done to enhance the way you dictate your character's personality before letting you choose which position he/she prefers.

Also, wouldn't it be kind of gratuitous? Not that it isn't already, but at this point at least they can say "the sex scene is there because it's relevant to the story" with straight faces. If they gave you any form of control over it, it would drift dangerously close to porn, which is something that has no place in a game like Dragon Age.

 

[Kortney]

Sex is a very human thing and incredibly personal. Please developers, don't try to show us it in animated models. It looks weird.

I think Mass Effect did it much better than Dragon Age.