Sex! Sex! Sex! Please! Can I have your STI identification card first.

[Owyn_Merrilin]

There are diseases that can penetrate the condom, for one thing, meaning they offer little-to-no protection in that regard. And, as mentioned, condoms sometimes break, posing another hazard.
But there's another aspect of this I feel some folks are totally missing...

This is actually a lie spread by abstinence only sex ed campaigns, not anything that has any bearing on reality. Condoms are made of latex, the same thing surgeons' gloves are made out of, specifically because they're so great at blocking the transfer of fluids and pathogens. That thing about viruses being tiny enough to get through the tiny holes always leaves out that that's only true of sheepskin condoms, not latex ones, and it's not exactly easy to track down the kind of condom George Washington would have been familiar with these days.

Edit: That would be the part about diseases permeating the condom, not the part about how they sometimes (though rarely, barring operator error) break.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

There are diseases that can penetrate the condom, for one thing, meaning they offer little-to-no protection in that regard. And, as mentioned, condoms sometimes break, posing another hazard.
But there's another aspect of this I feel some folks are totally missing...

Screwed up the previous quote, posting this one so you get the notification.

 

[Stu35]

Wear protection.


There we go. Problem (mostly) solved.


People who are against casual sex should leave the human race. (I mean commit suicide, just to be clear)*

Of course, the other solution is to not have sex. I disagree with that solution personally, but to each their own.




*Tongue-in-cheek. Everybody calm down (although I am a big fan of casual sex).

 

[Jadak]

Identifiers to indicate you have an STI is rather pointless, as it does nothing to really prevent people from not carrying them and denying they have anything (unless we start getting into subdermal implants and such).

The better alternative is likely to have the option for regular STI checks that hand out an 'STI Free' identification card, stating the date of issue and if people want to reassure potential partners, they can renew it regularly.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

First off, I didn't say anything against getting tested or using protection. Those are both perfectly good ideas.

And you can't make a judgement on how I handle things in life, and its not sociopathic behavior for someone to be accepting of the consequences of their actions. Its called MATURITY and INTEGRITY.

Actually, no. A lack of an emotional response to a life-threatening or other emotionally charged situations is one of the defining features of a sociopath.

I knew a high functioning sociopath once. He said that it was "immature" to be upset over the death of someone you know, because we all die, and it is to be expected.

He was a perfectly upstanding member of society - and a sociopath. I mean no offense to sociopaths here - I'm just saying that your claim that emotions are immature or lack integrity is, well...

Anyway, as noted in the post you replied to, I have only good things to say about safe sexual practices. However, I take offense to your assertion that anyone deserves a terrible disease. Yes, some factors can increase one's chances, but just like you do not deserve cancer, they do not deserve an STD.

 

[RaikuFA]

Or maybe people shouldn't go smooshing their junk against a stranger's junk without any form of protection.


Of course not, that would be silly, that would require initiative.

What about rape victims that get a disease through said rape? I know it's happened before.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Or maybe people shouldn't go smooshing their junk against a stranger's junk without any form of protection.


Of course not, that would be silly, that would require initiative.

What about rape victims that get a disease through said rape? I know it's happened before.

I'm failing to see how rape is relevant to this topic...

 

[Vareoth]

Or maybe people shouldn't go smooshing their junk against a stranger's junk without any form of protection.


Of course not, that would be silly, that would require initiative.

What about rape victims that get a disease through said rape? I know it's happened before.

I'm failing to see how rape is relevant to this topic...

Surely it would be nothing but courteous of the would-be raper to state any pre-existing medical conditions before commencing the sexual abuse in question.

 

[RaikuFA]

Or maybe people shouldn't go smooshing their junk against a stranger's junk without any form of protection.


Of course not, that would be silly, that would require initiative.

What about rape victims that get a disease through said rape? I know it's happened before.

I'm failing to see how rape is relevant to this topic...

Surely it would be nothing but courteous of the would-be raper to state any pre-existing medical conditions before commencing the sexual abuse in question.

Exactly. We shouldn't shame a person who has an STD if they got it from being raped. That's what I was trying to get across.

 

[game-lover]

Dumbest thing ever. Can you imagine smooth-talking a girl for a night and right before you bang her she is obligated by law to show you that she has herpes?

No way would any rational human ever be in favor of this.

An STI card?

Who is seriously going to carry one of those?

Edit: Also, who is seriously going to ask to see one of those?

I agree wholeheartedly...

As quite a few people have already said...
What would kill the mood more after meeting a girl (or guy), going to their (or your) house making it up into the bedroom only for them (or you) to go "WAIT! I have to tell you I have (STI Here)"

Yep, moodkiller and certainly argument starter...

However, on the flip side, if you have been in a relationship with someone for (x) weeks/months and then you finally decide to sleep with each other, THEN I believe you should feel obligated to tell your partner...
If it's a one-night thing, then go nuts...

Although protection would never go amiss eh people?

Here's a question. Why does it have to be right before you're about to bang? Can't it happen sometime before that?

I mean, just how spontaneous is a spontaneous bout of sex anyway? Maybe one can mention it before the mood starts?

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

First off, I didn't say anything against getting tested or using protection. Those are both perfectly good ideas.

And you can't make a judgement on how I handle things in life, and its not sociopathic behavior for someone to be accepting of the consequences of their actions. Its called MATURITY and INTEGRITY.

Actually, no. A lack of an emotional response to a life-threatening or other emotionally charged situations is one of the defining features of a sociopath.

I knew a high functioning sociopath once. He said that it was "immature" to be upset over the death of someone you know, because we all die, and it is to be expected.

He was a perfectly upstanding member of society - and a sociopath. I mean no offense to sociopaths here - I'm just saying that your claim that emotions are immature or lack integrity is, well...

Anyway, as noted in the post you replied to, I have only good things to say about safe sexual practices. However, I take offense to your assertion that anyone deserves a terrible disease. Yes, some factors can increase one's chances, but just like you do not deserve cancer, they do not deserve an STD.

Putting words in my mouth isn't very smart. I never once used the word deserve, I only said its a stronger possibility due to the actions taken. And I also never said I don't have emotional responses, I don't allow them to dominate my outlook on life, nor do I blame other people for putting myself in a situation that can cause something bad to happen to me.
Allowing oneself to be dominated by an emotional reaction IS immature, but you can still have them all you like. And having been through a lot of emotionally charged situations, being the person who is able to step out of that emotion and look at things logically and maturely isn't sociopathic, its just a sign of emotional maturity.
I have feelings, many of them, and I weigh them accordingly, and put them aside when their intensity is debilitating. It took many many years of self-reflection and self-improvement to get beyond degenerating into a mess of a person when shitty things happen.
If being a reasonable person despite a horrible situation is sociopathic then I guess I am, but thats a very liberal use of the word.

 

[Kyrinn]

There are diseases that can penetrate the condom, for one thing, meaning they offer little-to-no protection in that regard. And, as mentioned, condoms sometimes break, posing another hazard.
But there's another aspect of this I feel some folks are totally missing...

This is actually a lie spread by abstinence only sex ed campaigns, not anything that has any bearing on reality. Condoms are made of latex, the same thing surgeons' gloves are made out of, specifically because they're so great at blocking the transfer of fluids and pathogens. That thing about viruses being tiny enough to get through the tiny holes always leaves out that that's only true of sheepskin condoms, not latex ones, and it's not exactly easy to track down the kind of condom George Washington would have been familiar with these days.

Edit: That would be the part about diseases permeating the condom, not the part about how they sometimes (though rarely, barring operator error) break.

I'm pretty sure most surgeons' gloves are made out of nitrile. That's what those blue ones are anyway.

OT: Medical gloves are not covering a mucous membrane, a condom is. Unless the surgeon has an open would on his or her hand any pathogen that gets through is not going to get through skin. The gloves are mostly there to protect the patient, skin will always have some natural opportunist bacteria no matter how much you wash/use sanitizer; and you can't exactly go and autoclave your hands. You don't want dead skin cells, potentially carrying bacteria and viruses that normally stay outside, getting inside.

Anyway, I'm just saying I'm inclined to believe the whole viruses able to move through pores in latex thing, though I can't find a source either way right now. If you had one that would be very helpful.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

There are diseases that can penetrate the condom, for one thing, meaning they offer little-to-no protection in that regard. And, as mentioned, condoms sometimes break, posing another hazard.
But there's another aspect of this I feel some folks are totally missing...

This is actually a lie spread by abstinence only sex ed campaigns, not anything that has any bearing on reality. Condoms are made of latex, the same thing surgeons' gloves are made out of, specifically because they're so great at blocking the transfer of fluids and pathogens. That thing about viruses being tiny enough to get through the tiny holes always leaves out that that's only true of sheepskin condoms, not latex ones, and it's not exactly easy to track down the kind of condom George Washington would have been familiar with these days.

Edit: That would be the part about diseases permeating the condom, not the part about how they sometimes (though rarely, barring operator error) break.

I'm pretty sure most surgeons' gloves are made out of nitrile. That's what those blue ones are anyway.

OT: Medical gloves are not covering a mucous membrane, a condom is. Unless the surgeon has an open would on his or her hand any pathogen that gets through is not going to get through skin. The gloves are mostly there to protect the patient, skin there will always be some natural opportunist bacteria on your hands no matter how much you wash/use sanitizer; and you can't exactly go and autoclave your hands. You don't want dead skin cells, potentially carrying bacteria and viruses that normally stay outside, getting inside.

Anyway, I'm just saying I'm inclined to believe the whole viruses able to move through pores in latex thing, though I can't find a source either way right now. If you had one that would be very helpful.

http://www.positive.org/Home/faq/truth.html

It's a myth, apparently based on a study done in the 90's about latex gloves, which as it turns out are produced to much less exacting standards than condoms are.

And it really does get spread around by abstinence only sex ed classes, it's a lie that's aimed at making people afraid of having sex, but instead just encourages kids who plan on having sex anyway to drop the condoms, since they were just told they don't work.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

And while we are at it I'm going to need you to sign this consensuality form to prove it isn't a rape... woah woah hold up gotta do the breathalyzer before you can sign to ensure no coercion. This form is to ensure you are on birth control as you said or elsewise absolve me of responsibility in the event of a child. Yes right there on the dotted line. Now I'm going to need two forms of ID to prove your age.

 

[Doclector]

Dumbest thing ever. Can you imagine smooth-talking a girl for a night and right before you bang her she is obligated by law to show you that she has herpes?

No way would any rational human ever be in favor of this.

Pretty much this, hell, I'm not a rational human, and I'm not in favor of it!

Fact is, it just would not catch on. People who would knowingly spread STDs aren't going to have a problem with a fake ID, asking for said cards would pretty much extinguish any spark, and why would anyone be willing to carry around a card that people are allowed to ask for at any time by law that contains information that most people would be, at the very least, extremely embarassed of?

 

[Dark_Reaction]

This is actually a lie spread by abstinence only sex ed campaigns, not anything that has any bearing on reality. Condoms are made of latex, the same thing surgeons' gloves are made out of, specifically because they're so great at blocking the transfer of fluids and pathogens.

Good to know!

Protip: Its actually quite easy to track down lambskin condoms (... notes the person with a latex allergy). Polyurethane variants appear to be on par with latex analogs, but be careful with lambskin variants as they are not as effective in this regard.

Note, that does not diminish the risk of indirect vector transmission. And while many of these pathogens die quickly, some can last quite awhile - hours in some cases (like herpes), longer in others (such as hepatitis).
Which is an important note, because robot-sex is laaaaame... Unless it involves actual robots, in which case its pretty awesome.

Also, cars have a far greater tendency towards crashes due to operator error - especially when that operator has been drinking. Something to consider when taking that lovely someone home after a night out.

Anyway, I'm just saying I'm inclined to believe the whole viruses able to move through pores in latex thing, though I can't find a source either way right now. If you had one that would be very helpful.

"Laboratory studies have demonstrated that latex condoms provide an essentially impermeable barrier to particles the size of STD pathogens."
> http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/latex.htm
(Already something similar linked, but here's a direct line to valuable information nonetheless)

That said, as with all biological systems, sexually transmitted diseases are a constantly evolving model. Thus, while it appears latex (and polyur) condoms are a safe bet for the time being, it cannot necessarily be assumed this will remain static into the future... But for now, it appears you'll have a layer of protection against direct contact.

Note however, to quote the abstract of a study regarding pathogen permeability of latex gloves:
"The literature data indicate that glove composition, glove manufacturer, glove design (examination vs. surgical), and mechanical manipulation had considerable influence on glove performance when tested for leakage and viral penetration."
One would assume similar variations of circumstance can effect the function of condom efficacy; granted, condoms are made to a higher standard than gloves and receive a second coat of latex (gloves only one). That said, dish out the few extra bucks - or pennies - for a new, quality condom and learn how to use it properly. You won't regret it.

And from the above CDC link: "Ensure that adequate lubrication is used during vaginal and anal sex, which might require water-based lubricants. Oil-based lubricants (e.g., petroleum jelly, shortening, mineral oil, massage oils, body lotions, and cooking oil) should not be used because they can weaken latex, causing breakage."
> http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/brief.html
So, if you're going to lube-up, pay attention to what you use!

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Guys, when are people gonna accept that if there were a simple solution to stop a disease that rots your dick right off of your fucking pelvis, the entirety of humanity would have jumped on that in a fucking instant? Safe sex isn't as safe as you think. Condoms aren't the 30 ft iron wall of defense that we love to think they are-- they're important, certainly, but they're about as good at preventing STI's as they are pregnancies. Actually, less so


Also, if you're the kind of person who thinks telling people who catch an infectious disease that they 'deserve it' is in any way acceptable, please find an exposed nail and smash your fucking face against it you victim-blaming shit. You can catch STI's from sitting on a public toilet at the wrong time, or from borrowing a pair of shorts last-minute before a swimming party, or from wrestling or something. Fact is, the human body is a filthy mucus spewing machine and that shit gets everywhere. Ever seen that episode of myth busters where they showed just how easily snot from your nose can cover basically the entire living area of a room when you don't have a runny nose? Same goes for other bodily fluids-- you're covered in them. That shit spreads, and the best part is that most people who have STI's don't know.

This is another reason it's hard to take complaints about victim blaming and slut shaming seriously. You'll notice that nobody who did any of what you're calling victim blaming did anything so horrible as to ask that a person kills themselves -- if anything, they said that if they make a choice that winds up killing themselves, they shouldn't have made that choice. You, on the other hand, explicitly told them they should choose to kill themselves in a violent and painful manner.

 

[tstorm823]

http://www.positive.org/Home/faq/truth.html

It's a myth, apparently based on a study done in the 90's about latex gloves, which as it turns out are produced to much less exacting standards than condoms are.

And it really does get spread around by abstinence only sex ed classes, it's a lie that's aimed at making people afraid of having sex, but instead just encourages kids who plan on having sex anyway to drop the condoms, since they were just told they don't work.

Funny, that last part sounds to me like a lie aimed at making people ignore abstinence as an option. At least the motivation of their lies is in the right place. They want less STDs, you want people to have lots of sex, I think they take the moral high ground at least.

And while there's a general failure of abstinence only education, it's clearly not a fault of abstinence. It's a combination of the "only" part and environmental factors as abstinence promoting nations in Africa have shown the best results fighting AIDs.

And while the latex condoms may not be permeable to STIs, that's not going to stop you from proudly joining the genital Herpes club when it passes by adjacent skin contact.

If you can all recognize the misnomer of "clean coal" you should be able to understand the misnomer of "safe sex." The millions of infected or having unintended pregnancies aren't all just dumb or uncareful. The safest sex is still a very real risk to weigh in your priorities.