Sexism; Or The Turning of Tables

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intheweeds

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thaluikhain said:
I agree, men, just like white people or heterosexuals, are treated really unfairly nowdays.

Just because they dominate the social, political, legal and economic systems is no reason why they shouldn't be able to complain about how oppressed they are.

Now, I know there are plenty of men, just like white people or heterosexuals, who have legitimately been fucked over, and that anyone who hasn't but likes pretending who has isn't going to listen to me anyway, but take a look at the politicians, judges, military and leaders of industry in you nation. It's not all due to some bizarre coincidence that they always tend to mostly be men.

intheweeds said:
I would hazard a guess that a very large portion of those is under the age of 22, and do not have enough life experience to speak about women in the workforce or anywhere else with any sense of accuracy.
True, but unimportant. If it was just the men under 22 that were sexist, the world would be a much better place.
Oh god your right. I guess I just like to think that everyone - men included - grow up to not be so immature and stupid as they were at 20(i know i was a moron at 20). I guess i would rather not think about the very true fact the some don't.
 

intheweeds

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trooper6 said:
I'm going to be honest. These boards and becoming more and more overrun with really privileged straight, white guys going on and on about how they are the real victims of society. These boards are becoming full of casual sexism against women. And casual racism, and casual homophobia. It is becoming a really hostile environment and I just don't know how much longer I want to stay here. And I've been here since 2006.
I agree although I haven't been around nearly as long as you. I guess it's a tiny bit acceptable to me only because people seem to be at least trying to have reasonable adult conversations about it. People who disagree are not flamed out, but conversed with. I'm a woman and gay for the record,I often give a dissenting view in threads i think are a little crazy and no one has ever freaked out on me for it.

Yeah it does stink of white male privilege in here, but don't leave! if everyone who thought like you left it really would become that bad.
 

Fudd

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism

This thread could have been avoided by a quick trip to wikipedia. See, I understand the OP, and I also understand another group that likes to play up victimization from a place of power and privilege, namely, the christian right in the United States. The practice is as trivial with them as it is with this. Yes, sexism can go both ways, but we know for fact which way it usually goes and we also know which side bears the brunt of the serious discrimination and inter-gender violence that does happen.

Seriously, grow some perspective.
 

Phisi

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You have forgotten the work and education benefits that women get and no one bats and eyelid. There are many scholarships for women in particular fields such as engineering and science but if some university were to have a scholarship that was limited to men then there would be an outcry. The are also laws in some countries that state that boards must be at least 40% women. Please don't take this as women should not have education and be allowed to work but I feel that the education and job you get should be based on your ability and results instead of you sex. Sex should not effect anything but sadly that is not the truth, for women and men, but enacting sexist laws is not the answer. The answer is correct sexist stereotypes and people. Oh and for whoever posted that list, saying that it is sexist that God in most major religions is male, then ou would also have to state that Wicca is sexist for only having goddesses (My knowledge on Wicca is not very strong so I may be wrong), unless you are saying that because wiccans worship females that they are not sexist would make you sexist for saying that worshiping gods and goddesses is different ARGH. Just ignore that as I have confused myself :p
 

trooper6

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intheweeds said:
trooper6 said:
I'm going to be honest. These boards and becoming more and more overrun with really privileged straight, white guys going on and on about how they are the real victims of society. These boards are becoming full of casual sexism against women. And casual racism, and casual homophobia. It is becoming a really hostile environment and I just don't know how much longer I want to stay here. And I've been here since 2006.
I agree although I haven't been around nearly as long as you. I guess it's a tiny bit acceptable to me only because people seem to be at least trying to have reasonable adult conversations about it. People who disagree are not flamed out, but conversed with. I'm a woman and gay for the record,I often give a dissenting view in threads i think are a little crazy and no one has ever freaked out on me for it.

Yeah it does stink of white male privilege in here, but don't leave! if everyone who thought like you left it really would become that bad.
The conversations aren't really reasonable though. They don't flame people (because they don't want to get reported)--but these conversations are not reasonable. They are full of complete outrageousness, logical fallacies, disingenuous argumentation....and I swear, nowadays we're getting 3-4 of these threads a day.

It is getting really, really tiring. Because these guys who insist they have it so much worse than women are not going to listen to reason or even look the reality on the ground. They just want to further the oppression of women and keep their own privilege. The patriarchy now has such an awesome new strategy. Punch women in the face and then claim that they are the injured ones because a) their knuckles are bruised b) people keep calling men face-punchers and that is stereotyping and oppressive.
 

intheweeds

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Phisi said:
You have forgotten the work and education benefits that women get and no one bats and eyelid. There are many scholarships for women in particular fields such as engineering and science but if some university were to have a scholarship that was limited to men then there would be an outcry. The are also laws in some countries that state that boards must be at least 40% women. Please don't take this as women should not have education and be allowed to work but I feel that the education and job you get should be based on your ability and results instead of you sex. Sex should not effect anything but sadly that is not the truth, for women and men, but enacting sexist laws is not the answer. The answer is correct sexist stereotypes and people. Oh and for whoever posted that list, saying that it is sexist that God in most major religions is male, then ou would also have to state that Wicca is sexist for only having goddesses (My knowledge on Wicca is not very strong so I may be wrong), unless you are saying that because wiccans worship females that they are not sexist would make you sexist for saying that worshiping gods and goddesses is different ARGH. Just ignore that as I have confused myself :p
For the love of...

Please read my few posts about my experiences in the workforce to realize why this type of educational 'benefit' is needed. Or read the Education heading of the wiki article a previous poster linked. Seriously, do you think women wouldn't prefer to not need the government to step in to try and fill the gap? You think the government shouldn't try to address the issue at all?

It isn't a benefit - it's a government band-aid(law, budget adaptation, etc. - which the government has control over) on a greater more important issue(the minds of the people - which the government can't do a damn thing about).

*Edited for clarity
 

intheweeds

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trooper6 said:
intheweeds said:
trooper6 said:
I'm going to be honest. These boards and becoming more and more overrun with really privileged straight, white guys going on and on about how they are the real victims of society. These boards are becoming full of casual sexism against women. And casual racism, and casual homophobia. It is becoming a really hostile environment and I just don't know how much longer I want to stay here. And I've been here since 2006.
I agree although I haven't been around nearly as long as you. I guess it's a tiny bit acceptable to me only because people seem to be at least trying to have reasonable adult conversations about it. People who disagree are not flamed out, but conversed with. I'm a woman and gay for the record,I often give a dissenting view in threads i think are a little crazy and no one has ever freaked out on me for it.

Yeah it does stink of white male privilege in here, but don't leave! if everyone who thought like you left it really would become that bad.
The conversations aren't really reasonable though. They don't flame people (because they don't want to get reported)--but these conversations are not reasonable. They are full of complete outrageousness, logical fallacies, disingenuous argumentation....and I swear, nowadays we're getting 3-4 of these threads a day.

It is getting really, really tiring. Because these guys who insist they have it so much worse than women are not going to listen to reason or even look the reality on the ground. They just want to further the oppression of women and keep their own privilege. The patriarchy now has such an awesome new strategy. Punch women in the face and then claim that they are the injured ones because a) their knuckles are bruised b) people keep calling men face-punchers and that is stereotyping and oppressive.
ah. I really wish i agreed with you less. :(
 

BRex21

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Colour-Scientist said:
Look, I'll tell you the same thing I told my boyfriend, if you want the male-only gyms, chubby male models and to be able to poke fun at women in ads then grand, not a bother. I'll gladly take all the other benefits you have in society that are actually important and trade.

Seriously, the fact that these are the only things you can think of it's clear that you've never actually been discriminated against in a serious manner.
First ill start with the all male gym, I would love one of these, I quit going to the gym because far too many cougars hang out there, most are pretty touchy feely. If you want equality you had better start enjoying it when strange old men grope you in public, or at least begrudgingly accept it. Of course you already said that's not a bother so ill move onto something else. How about, up until recently low income men who happen to get breast cancer in the U.S.A. have to pay for there own treatment but women get it covered. People who make $9.00 an hour cant afford the treatment and cant afford a lawyer to fight an obviously discriminatory policy. Of course a man finally stood up for himself in South Carolina so currently on 49 US states are still upholding a law that says men have to lay down and die while women get treatment. I can of course go on if you like, but i would rather see your comments on these first.
 

intheweeds

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Colour-Scientist said:
These threads are so super.
Prepare for most people here to agree with you.

I understand your pain, I hate it when previously oppressed people get a few double standards in their favour too. What'll they want next, equal rights? Pfft...

Look, I'll tell you the same thing I told my boyfriend, if you want the male-only gyms, chubby male models and to be able to poke fun at women in ads then grand, not a bother. I'll gladly take all the other benefits you have in society that are actually important and trade.

Seriously, the fact that these are the only things you can think of it's clear that you've never actually been discriminated against in a serious manner.


EDIT: I'm not saying other men haven't been, because I know people will jump on that, I'm just saying what you pointed out is really trivial.
While I couldnt agree more that these threads are annoying, over the top and way too frequent, I am still pretty curious as to what serious benefit I as a male hold.

If youre going to come out shouting about how women earn less then men I suggest you dont, and actually do some research instead. Other than that, I am genuinely curious.
read my posts in this thread for my answer to that question. :)
 

Catchy Slogan

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intheweeds said:
zehydra said:
Colour-Scientist said:
These threads are so super.
Prepare for most people here to agree with you.

I understand your pain, I hate it when previously oppressed people get a few double standards in their favour too. What'll they want next, equal rights? Pfft...

Look, I'll tell you the same thing I told my boyfriend, if you want the male-only gyms, chubby male models and to be able to poke fun at women in ads then grand, not a bother. I'll gladly take all the other benefits you have in society that are actually important and trade.

Seriously, the fact that these are the only things you can think of it's clear that you've never actually been discriminated against in a serious manner.


EDIT: I'm not saying other men haven't been, because I know people will jump on that, I'm just saying what you pointed out is really trivial.
agreed, but OP is mostly reacting to Feminist reactions to trivial things as well.

The scope of Feminism has broadened somewhat, and has reached the point of trying to reach some kind of "social equality" which is absolutely impossible.

Although to be honest, I can't think of many non-trivial benefits that I have that you don't. (I'm male)
Read my post just above yours. This happens to me constantly. Every kitchen i go to there is one guy who either overtly says he won't won't work with a woman or inexplicably cannot hear anything i say. Of the ones i get along with fine, I have had a few tell me they "usually don't like working with women, but i work like a guy", whatever that means. I take my shit seriously and work hard. I didn't realize that was a gender thing.

Hell in order to become a chef, I didn't get promoted into a nice sous job and learn. I realized i had enough experience and fudged my resume so a new employer would hire me in management off the bat. There is no way in hell I would find a male chef who would choose me over his flock of young boys. Ever.

With all due respect, you don't have to deal with that every day at work just to make a buck. That is a non-trivial benefit in my book.
I'm sad to say my prick of a step-brother was a chef like this. Him and his prick-chef friends. he's convinced that men are the better chefs, but flies off the handle if his mum doesn't have his tea made for him when he gets in. He's 22. And annoyingly, a very good chef.
 

cobra_ky

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oktalist said:
Sexism is not against any one particular sex. Sexism is against all humankind. Sexism against men is not the fault of women, and sexism against women is not the fault of men. Stop blaming everything on gender, including blaming sexism on gender.

It's not a zero-sum game. There is prejudice against men yes, but the amount of prejudice against women is still worse, this is undeniable.

White males have the easiest time of anyone. If you deny this, then I... I don't even... you must not get out much.
This. We can never have a truly egalitarian society as long as we cling to the perception of a "war between the sexes". Are women in many ways more liberated than men in modern Western society? Yes, because there was a political movement that fought for that liberation. There hasn't been a broad-based movement to do the same for men, because instead of demanding freedom for themselves, many men insist on reinstating the old status quo, oppression of women and all.

trooper6 said:
I'm going to be honest. These boards and becoming more and more overrun with really privileged straight, white guys going on and on about how they are the real victims of society. These boards are becoming full of casual sexism against women. And casual racism, and casual homophobia. It is becoming a really hostile environment and I just don't know how much longer I want to stay here. And I've been here since 2006.
This too, sadly. What first drew me to these forums was the diversity of background and opinions that once flourished here. In other words, i liked it here because unlike most gaming communities, it wasn't overrun with really privileged straight, white guys. It's sad to realize how much that's changed now.
 

thehorror2

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I think we've hit some kind of reverse-golden-age, in which the discrimination against women hasn't gone away, but now there's discrimination against men, and so-called "positive discrimination" towards women to try to balance out the discrimination that already exists, rather than just changing the status quo to begin with.
 

Vrex360

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Joshimodo said:
Let me cover my arse before I go on - I wholly believe that us males do not have it as bad as women did in the previous eras. This is a fundamentally different kind of sexism, but sexism nonetheless.
Thank you for addressing that issue up front and being honest, most guys making posts like this wouldn't do the same.
That said, I do have issue with your examples of 'reverse sexism' or 'sexism against males' that I feel I should address.


As some quick examples, take that recent story (http://extrawiggleroom.tumblr.com/) about the plus-size model launching that parody campaign in the (degrading) American Apparel competition. For one, it's good that "plus-size" models are being more welcomed, because frankly I think most models look like sickly caricatures of people rather than actual people. Yes, American Apparel's competition is a disgustingly insulting charade, but that's not the issue here.

The thing is, plus-size models in the past couple of years have been sweeping through various major campaigns, such as Boots in the UK. Now, have you ever seen a male version of that? Ever seen some not-so-slim chubby guy modelling the latest fashion, or showing off in one of those mind-boggling perfume/aftershave ads?

Not a chance. All men portrayed in any kind of upmarket ad are chisel-jawed, trendy, slightly moody or casually playful supermen.
You need to understand that whole 'chubby model' thing was done to help change social views regarding appearance and standards of beauty, and whether you want to believe it or not the pressure to look beautiful has always been harder on women then on men.

Given that this is a gaming site let me ask you something. How many unnattractive/faceless/non-human looking male protagonists can you think of?
I personally, can think of a few. Kratos from God of War comes to mind, with a face that even a mother couldn't love. Masterchief who never shows his face also comes to mind, he has no requirement to look pretty and you can bet that every single exotic distinctly non humanoid looking alien in Mass Effect will be male.

But now tell me how many unnattractive/faceless/non-human female protagonists you can think of? I personally can't think of any, unless you count that female Fox from Star Fox but even then they kind of creepily sexed her up.
Otherwise beauty is not an option for female characters, it is a textbook requirement. Superficial and borderline impossible to achieve bodies and faces are now a default expectation when designing any female character for a game, movie, TV show or comic. You'll never see a female superhero who is overweight or who has a monobrow or an ugly deformed face, but with male characters you see them every day.

This isn't just in fiction, it makes its way into the real world too. When a male actor gains a few kilos in his later years he may never be nominated for 'sexiest man of the year' but his career won't get damaged by it and the tabloids won't lash out at him viciously because of it.
Yet I've lost track of how often I've seen tabloid media get up in arms and hostile towards actresses who put on a bit of weight. I remember once they did it to Rhys Witherspoon, who had gained maybe five kilos at one point.
Even though she is a great actress and was still really beautiful, the way she was judged and the hostility of it made it seem like her entire worth was just gone given that she couldn't live up to body image standards.

Hell, Seth Rogan himself once admitted that if he was a woman he wouldn't have had a career. Because in our media fat men are considered 'funny' but fat women are more often then not just considered 'gross'.
Which is probably at least partly why there is such a high rate of anorexia and bulimia in teenage girls.

That's the substantial difference here, yes both sides have to deal with obscene high standards of beauty. But men don't have it as bad in that respect, the whole 'chubby women' thing was an attempt to try to break down the ridiculously high standards against women in terms of expectations of beauty.
Tragically all it resulted in was a whole lot of 'heffer' jokes.

Also, as far as aftershave ads and such go, it's worth noting that unlike products that use women's bodies as shameless marketting material to attract male audiences, products like aftershave try to present a sense of power and strength to an, again, male audience.
The gorgeous handsome men in those ads are not there to make women wet their pants with spasms of sexual glee, they are there to be a personification of what a man thinks is the traditional view of masculinity.
Those guys are for the male audience that the product is selling to, it's who a man imagines he could BE rather then who he would want to have sex with.

In the world of advertising, it usually goes like this:
Women = sexualized for men.
Men = sexualized for men (just in a different way)


When portraying family scenes in "funny" adverts (usually to do with insurance, or something along those lines), men appear to be nothing more than bumbling idiots, with the woman in the ad sitting to the side shaking her head and rolling her eyes, effectively acting like the male is some kind of pet doing something silly and amusing. However, I guarantee that if you portrayed women as some kind of complete household idiot outside of her and her girlfriends in lifestyle/health ads, the full fury of the feminists would erupt and there would be a media outcry.
Yes, those ads are sexist. But not sexist in the way you are thinking of.
They aren't sexist because they are arguing that men are idiots when it comes to housework and suck at cooking or cleaning, they are sexist because they seem to expect that women should just be naturally experts at housework and cooking and cleaning.

That the woman knowing how to do the housework is just the natural order of things and that there's no expectation for men to learn to cook or clean, because clearly that's 'women's work'. In fact, the presentation of a successful businesswoman having no idea and needing to ask her husband for help working out how to use the oven might actually be a GOOD image for feminism, because it would defy the gender stereotypes on both fronts.

As far as that whole 'feminist outrage' thing goes, feminists are already raging pretty hard about these kinds of ads:
http://www.themarysue.com/dumb-men-commercials/


Also I actually had a point to make about the whole newscaster thing but I forgot what it was, I'm tired and I need rest.

EDIT: By the way I apologize if I seemed hostile, I didn't mean to if I came across that way.
 

Irony's Acolyte

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It's a time of great social change and there's going to be some problems like this that arise through it. Sure, it seems at times that women actually get it better then men. Now it might just be that us white males aren't used to getting the short end every once and a while, but I certainly don't believe that raising one gender above another, whichever it is, will help create equality. In fact, grouping people into genders first can help perpetuate sexism.

But you have to remember, that while women seem to get some special privileges at times, men still have it pretty good. In the state of Delaware women only make about 75 cents on the dollar. I'm sure it's similar in other states (some might have it better, some might have it worse). There are still more men in positions of power than there are women. Sure you hear all about how great it is that a woman managed to rise to a position of power previously held only by men, but there are still plenty of men out there in the same position.

So just remember guys, while women might get some privileges that you don't agree with (I generally don't agree with them either), it's not like we don't have advantages over them. So try to avoid being one of those whiny people who can't take their own medicine respectfully.
 

AngloDoom

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I don't understand how this can even be discussed. Honestly, I'm at a loss how a man can ever turn around and say "I feel like we're the disadvantaged!" as if thousands of years of double-standards towards women disappeared in the last thirty years as if by magic. It's honestly like you're ignoring the fact that--

xXxJessicaxXx said:
1.My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.

2. I can be confident that my co-workers won?t think I got my job because of my sex ? even though that might be true.

3. If I am never promoted, it?s not because of my sex.

4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won?t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex?s capabilities.

5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my female co-workers are. .

6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.

7. If I?m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low.

8. On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.

9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I?ll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I?m even marginally competent.

12. If I have children and a career, no one will think I?m selfish for not staying at home.

13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.

14. My elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more this is true.

15. When I ask to see ?the person in charge,? odds are I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.

17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children?s media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male protagonists are the default.

18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.

19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.

20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented.

21. If I?m careless with my financial affairs it won?t be attributed to my sex.

22. If I?m careless with my driving it won?t be attributed to my sex.

23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.

24. Even if I sleep with a lot of women, there is no chance that I will be seriously labeled a ?slut,? nor is there any male counterpart to ?slut-bashing.?

25. I do not have to worry about the message my wardrobe sends about my sexual availability.

26. My clothing is typically less expensive and better-constructed than women?s clothing for the same social status. While I have fewer options, my clothes will probably fit better than a woman?s without tailoring.

27. The grooming regimen expected of me is relatively cheap and consumes little time.
28. If I buy a new car, chances are I?ll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.

29. If I?m not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.

30. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a *****.

31. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called ?crime? and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called ?domestic violence? or ?acquaintance rape,? and is seen as a special interest issue.)

32. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. ?All men are created equal,? mailman, chairman, freshman, he.

33. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.

34. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if I don?t change my name.

35. The decision to hire me will not be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.

36. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is pictured as male.

37. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.

38. If I have a wife or live-in girlfriend, chances are we?ll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.

39. If I have children with my girlfriend or wife, I can expect her to do most of the basic childcare such as changing diapers and feeding.

40. If I have children with my wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we?ll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.

41. Assuming I am heterosexual, magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are rarer.

42. In general, I am under much less pressure to be thin than my female counterparts are. . If I am fat, I probably suffer fewer social and economic consequences for being fat than fat women do.

43. If I am heterosexual, it?s incredibly unlikely that I?ll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover.
44. Complete strangers generally do not walk up to me on the street and tell me to ?smile.?

45. Sexual harassment on the street virtually never happens to me. I do not need to plot my movements through public space in order to avoid being sexually harassed, or to mitigate sexual harassment.

45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.

46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

taken from: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

You guys really don't understand how much better you have it.
...Oh, guess someone came here and did my work for me.
 

phantasmalWordsmith

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Oct 5, 2010
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Yin and Yang. Night and day. Warm and cold. Rain and Sun. Man and women? Still working on that one

I brought this up because my girlfriend called me the Yin to her Yang; I found it funny (ha-ha funny not "Yeah. Real funny") that I was the Feminine Yin rather than the masculine Yang but I agree it fits perfectly.

I've noticed the sexism a lot recently and it's been bugging me. I'd bring it up but I get the feeling that I'd just be digging my own grave. I feel like if I really react to it, I'll get an earful or something from any woman in ear shot. So yeah. My guess is we have to wait till either it fizzles out on it's own or it gets worse and men end up being brutally oppressed like women were (highly unlikely) and then we get to do...Something.
 

thefrizzlefry

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xXxJessicaxXx said:
Joshimodo said:
Please enlighten me as to what genuine benefits men have in society now?
Well in comparison to 'we get made fun of in adverts'

1.My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.

2. I can be confident that my co-workers won?t think I got my job because of my sex ? even though that might be true.

3. If I am never promoted, it?s not because of my sex.

4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won?t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex?s capabilities.

5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my female co-workers are. .

6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.

7. If I?m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low.

8. On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.

9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I?ll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I?m even marginally competent.

12. If I have children and a career, no one will think I?m selfish for not staying at home.

13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.

14. My elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more this is true.

15. When I ask to see ?the person in charge,? odds are I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.

17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children?s media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male protagonists are the default.

18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.

19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.

20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented.

21. If I?m careless with my financial affairs it won?t be attributed to my sex.

22. If I?m careless with my driving it won?t be attributed to my sex.

23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.

24. Even if I sleep with a lot of women, there is no chance that I will be seriously labeled a ?slut,? nor is there any male counterpart to ?slut-bashing.?

25. I do not have to worry about the message my wardrobe sends about my sexual availability.

26. My clothing is typically less expensive and better-constructed than women?s clothing for the same social status. While I have fewer options, my clothes will probably fit better than a woman?s without tailoring.

27. The grooming regimen expected of me is relatively cheap and consumes little time.
28. If I buy a new car, chances are I?ll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.

29. If I?m not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.

30. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a *****.

31. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called ?crime? and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called ?domestic violence? or ?acquaintance rape,? and is seen as a special interest issue.)

32. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. ?All men are created equal,? mailman, chairman, freshman, he.

33. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.

34. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if I don?t change my name.

35. The decision to hire me will not be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.

36. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is pictured as male.

37. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.

38. If I have a wife or live-in girlfriend, chances are we?ll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.

39. If I have children with my girlfriend or wife, I can expect her to do most of the basic childcare such as changing diapers and feeding.

40. If I have children with my wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we?ll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.

41. Assuming I am heterosexual, magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are rarer.

42. In general, I am under much less pressure to be thin than my female counterparts are. . If I am fat, I probably suffer fewer social and economic consequences for being fat than fat women do.

43. If I am heterosexual, it?s incredibly unlikely that I?ll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover.
44. Complete strangers generally do not walk up to me on the street and tell me to ?smile.?

45. Sexual harassment on the street virtually never happens to me. I do not need to plot my movements through public space in order to avoid being sexually harassed, or to mitigate sexual harassment.

45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.

46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

taken from: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

You guys really don't understand how much better you have it.
The one thing that I think it's worth noting is that several of these (the examples that are more about culture - the ones about the workplace - those are almost always true and are one of the reasons I don't want to go into the corporate world) assume that you are a typical, masculine-leaning man and/or heterosexual. If you're an effeminate or queer man (lucky me, I'm both), you have to put up with a lot of bullshit. Just thought I'd put that out there.
 

monkey_man

New member
Jul 5, 2009
1,164
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xXxJessicaxXx said:
Joshimodo said:
Please enlighten me as to what genuine benefits men have in society now?
Well in comparison to 'we get made fun of in adverts'

45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.

taken from: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

You guys really don't understand how much better you have it.
I must post this, because usually, women are the ones speaking more, which gives more possibility to be interrupted.
The other points are fine, if a little extreme. Not EVERYONE gets raped, and there are successful women, just less because women weren't allowed to do shit not too long ago (and some still aren't) Also, every advantage has a disadvantage , mostly in the form of relationships. men DO not get to pick whoever they want, women get to. if a woman is average, she'll have guys lining up. Men who are average do not have this luxury.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
6,157
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monkey_man said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
Joshimodo said:
Please enlighten me as to what genuine benefits men have in society now?
Well in comparison to 'we get made fun of in adverts'

45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.

taken from: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

You guys really don't understand how much better you have it.
I must post this, because usually, women are the ones speaking more, which gives more possibility to be interrupted.
The other points are fine, if a little extreme. Not EVERYONE gets raped, and there are successful women, just less because women weren't allowed to do shit not too long ago (and some still aren't) Also, every advantage has a disadvantage , mostly in the form of relationships. men DO not get to pick whoever they want, women get to. if a woman is average, she'll have guys lining up. Men who are average do not have this luxury.
I'm sorry but you are completely wrong there, and most of the time men will not even consider an average woman as a girlfriend. They have to look perfect.

I have a friend who people assume is my boyfriend because of how we act together. I have had people actually shocked that he isn't. He won't go out with me becuase he says I'm not pretty enough. So no...women don't get to choose who they want, painfully so sometimes. Sorry to burst your bubble.

thefrizzlefry said:
]
The one thing that I think it's worth noting is that several of these (the examples that are more about culture - the ones about the workplace - those are almost always true and are one of the reasons I don't want to go into the corporate world) assume that you are a typical, masculine-leaning man and/or heterosexual. If you're an effeminate or queer man (lucky me, I'm both), you have to put up with a lot of bullshit. Just thought I'd put that out there.
Yes I can imagine that is true.