Sexism; Or The Turning of Tables

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Joshimodo

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sex·ism/ˈsekˌsizəm/
Noun: Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.
Sexism has long been an aspect of human culture and society. Gender roles have been defined for millennia, and only recently in the grand scale of things have these stereotypes been challenged, and for all intents and purposes, destroyed. In the majority of first world countries at least, it is no longer a genuine divide.


Or is it?


In recent years, it appears that sexism still exists - But it is fundamentally different. It is less about stereotypical gender roles and things such as career capabilities, and more importantly, omits this aspect:
typically against women
That's right - I believe sexism has reversed, and is now against men.


Let me cover my arse before I go on - I wholly believe that us males do not have it as bad as women did in the previous eras. This is a fundamentally different kind of sexism, but sexism nonetheless.



As some quick examples, take that recent story (http://extrawiggleroom.tumblr.com/) about the plus-size model launching that parody campaign in the (degrading) American Apparel competition. For one, it's good that "plus-size" models are being more welcomed, because frankly I think most models look like sickly caricatures of people rather than actual people. Yes, American Apparel's competition is a disgustingly insulting charade, but that's not the issue here.

The thing is, plus-size models in the past couple of years have been sweeping through various major campaigns, such as Boots in the UK. Now, have you ever seen a male version of that? Ever seen some not-so-slim chubby guy modelling the latest fashion, or showing off in one of those mind-boggling perfume/aftershave ads?

Not a chance. All men portrayed in any kind of upmarket ad are chisel-jawed, trendy, slightly moody or casually playful supermen.


On the subject of ads, let's take a look at lower-market ones, specifically television advertisements.

When portraying family scenes in "funny" adverts (usually to do with insurance, or something along those lines), men appear to be nothing more than bumbling idiots, with the woman in the ad sitting to the side shaking her head and rolling her eyes, effectively acting like the male is some kind of pet doing something silly and amusing. However, I guarantee that if you portrayed women as some kind of complete household idiot outside of her and her girlfriends in lifestyle/health ads, the full fury of the feminists would erupt and there would be a media outcry.

So, the media discriminates in adverts, it seems. What's new? Well, the fact that real-world punishments seem to vary based on gender.

A while ago, a sports commentator was at the centre of a huge controversy after he made a comment about a female referee while his microphone was still on. As far as I recall, it wasn't anything particularly lewd, but that is irrelevant. He made the comment, and after a massive media frenzy over it, he lost his job. Overreaction, sure, but he should have either had the mic off, or not made the comment. His fault entirely.

What struck me is that a few weeks after that incident, there was a story about a female newscaster commenting on air about her colleague's penis size. She wasn't fired, and from what I remember, she didn't even get into much trouble about it.


Maybe it's just the fact that I'm tired and in the mood for a rant, but this seems to be a continuing issue. Do any of you Escapists feel the same, or think otherwise? I know I've only hit on a few points here, but it's food for thought. I may post more when I've had some sleep.


Debate away.
 

Astoria

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I think it's probably just as bad for each gender now. Women still deal with a lot of the the 'men are stronger and smarter' sorta stuff but men suffer from having to be 'manly'. I like to think that we're all just as bad as each other, regardless of gender.
 

Colour Scientist

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These threads are so super.
Prepare for most people here to agree with you.

I understand your pain, I hate it when previously oppressed people get a few double standards in their favour too. What'll they want next, equal rights? Pfft...

Look, I'll tell you the same thing I told my boyfriend, if you want the male-only gyms, chubby male models and to be able to poke fun at women in ads then grand, not a bother. I'll gladly take all the other benefits you have in society that are actually important and trade.

Seriously, the fact that these are the only things you can think of it's clear that you've never actually been discriminated against in a serious manner.


EDIT: I'm not saying other men haven't been, because I know people will jump on that, I'm just saying what you pointed out is really trivial.
 

Verlander

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Women seem to care more. That's the difference. Also everything in the media is run by marketers and advertisers, and women are a bigger "market" then men. Therefore they get more say.

Politically we have equality, but marketing and insurance companies fly rampant in the face of that, and it's something we have to suck up. It's not worth the revolution, and the previous decades of female oppression kinda nullify any complaints we may have about such trivial matters.
 

mrhappy1489

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I agree with that statement nearly hole heartedly, whilst it was bad for women in the past, it does appear that they are using this against men now as an excuse to act rudely and with severe incivility toward all men these days, regardless of whether or not they have actually said anything offensive. It appears that now all we have is people constantly insulting other groups based on stereotypes that have no base in society at all. To be frank todays society is really just a charade, there is no real civility amongst the genders, races and sexual preferences, so large a portion of society still retain the old prejudices that they once had against these groups, the only difference is that people hide under the banner of ironic humor to avoid repercussions, I mean does anyone really notice the unusually large amount of sexist, racist and homophobic jokes, does anyone actually consider any of these things to be remotely amusing because I certainly do not see the appeal in any of them. In short my point is that society is not going to move forward when things like feminism and race politics still exist, because all these do is further the all ready widening gap in society between these groups.
 

AlexNora

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those things seem pretty small to me i think things are getting better.

I'm kinda surprised people still watch tv there's never anything on except Good Eats and the occasional anime Durarara is on adult swim right now xD
 

FrankatronX

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Wow calm down there ace.

It's simple. When you see sexism: confront it. It's not a conspiracy or a lapse in social consciousness. We live in a time where people are given so many options they don't know what to do. This applies to both men and women. It's easy to think of things in terms of sexism because we are both biologically and sociologically surrounded by it.

Both women, men and persons of alternative gender need to be more accepting of the roles each are learning to play. But I don't believe sexism itself will ever stop. Not as long as there is a difference in genders.
 

Keith Keiser

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It seems to me like a very subjective-ish topic. (For most of the 1st world at least). Both sides get discriminated against but not so much that would be a real worry. I wish I could just magically live a second life as the opposite gender and find out. For now, both masculinists and feminists seem equally ridiculous to me.
 

TheIronRuler

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About the double standard - let me give you an example.
In Israel, there is a mandatory service in the army to every 18 year old kid (Besides those damn minorities that don't do much, Israeli-Arabs and Orthodox Jews; Orthodox Jews had been integrated slowly into the military in the past decade and I think that in the future they will be much more involved in protecting the state. ISraeli Arabs... erm... I don't see it coming.) whether it may be a man or a woman. Two decades ago, women weren't allowed to serve in combatant units that faced the enemy. They served in the rear, they didn't see combat at all.
Then a woman that wanted to become a pilot sued the military and the laws regarding the draft were changed. Slowly but surely women integrated into front line units. BUT, this is a BIG BUT, the difference in the TIME OF SERVICE for both of the genders STILL EXISTS -
WOMEN SERVE LESS TIME THAN MEN.
NOBODY TALKS ABOUT IT IN FEAR OF THE KILLER FEMINISTS.
.
But at least we have equal rights, right?
 

Colour Scientist

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TheIronRuler said:
BUT, this is a BIG BUT, the difference in the TIME OF SERVICE for both of the genders STILL EXISTS -
WOMEN SERVE LESS TIME THAN MEN.
NOBODY TALKS ABOUT IT IN FEAR OF THE KILLER FEMINISTS.
.
But at least we have equal rights, right?
Actually, most feminists would be in favour of the terms being equaled. Also, it's not like that difference was put in place by THE KILLER FEMINISTS. I doubt there are many in positions of power to make that decision single-handedly.
 

TheIronRuler

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Colour-Scientist said:
TheIronRuler said:
BUT, this is a BIG BUT, the difference in the TIME OF SERVICE for both of the genders STILL EXISTS -
WOMEN SERVE LESS TIME THAN MEN.
NOBODY TALKS ABOUT IT IN FEAR OF THE KILLER FEMINISTS.
.
But at least we have equal rights, right?
Actually, most feminists would be in favour of the terms being equaled. Also, it's not like that difference was put in place by THE KILLER FEMINISTS. I doubt there are many in positions of power to make that decision single-handedly.
Whenever the term is brought up in a discussion it is quickly shot down and disregarded. Like how most politicians work, they change the topic as fast as possible when you comfront them wth this fact.
It is very possible to change it. You put an appeal to the high court of Justice (Which is a seperate entity from the state and is supposed to critisize its actions. This is where the lawsuit against the army was filed, the supreme court allowed her to paprticipate and therefore the army changed its draft regulations and allowed females to be in front line units.)
EDIT: There is a special office in the military DEDICATED to stop and prevent any sexism in it (After the aforementioned reform). From its creation there has been NOT ONE male in the office.
What say you?
 

Joshimodo

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Colour-Scientist said:
These threads are so super.
Prepare for most people here to agree with you.

I understand your pain, I hate it when previously oppressed people get a few double standards in their favour too. What'll they want next, equal rights? Pfft...

Look, I'll tell you the same thing I told my boyfriend, if you want the male-only gyms, chubby male models and to be able to poke fun at women in ads then grand, not a bother. I'll gladly take all the other benefits you have in society that are actually important and trade.

Seriously, the fact that these are the only things you can think of it's clear that you've never actually been discriminated against in a serious manner.


EDIT: I'm not saying other men haven't been, because I know people will jump on that, I'm just saying what you pointed out is really trivial.
Please enlighten me as to what genuine benefits men have in society now?

I have been discriminated against to a fairly serious point, but that's a story for another time. What I'm trying to get at here is that this isn't a small-scale, personal thing. It's happened in the public eye.




Verlander said:
It's not worth the revolution, and the previous decades of female oppression kinda nullify any complaints we may have about such trivial matters.
Oh, don't get me wrong - I know it's trivial and nothing in comparison to previous generation's discrimination against women, but it's the persistent (and apparently growing) double standard. Hell, if I was an alarmist nutjob, I'd go so far as to say it'll be a crime to be a white male in a few decades.




FrankatronX said:
Wow calm down there ace.

It's simple. When you see sexism: confront it. It's not a conspiracy or a lapse in social consciousness. We live in a time where people are given so many options they don't know what to do. This applies to both men and women. It's easy to think of things in terms of sexism because we are both biologically and sociologically surrounded by it.

Both women, men and persons of alternative gender need to be more accepting of the roles each are learning to play. But I don't believe sexism itself will ever stop. Not as long as there is a difference in genders.
While I agree that sexism will likely never stop, I don't think your response makes sense. Options of what?
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

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Men are expected to pay the tip but when they do they are sexist for not letting the woman stand on her two feet and pay for her own meals. We lose everytime there...

Oh and remember that thread about a 20 year old babysitter who happened to be a woman who had sex with a 14 year old boy? Did she get the same punishment as a 20 year old man would with a 14 year old girl? I'm not being sarcastic here, I actually never found out but if she didn't it would prove that men are more heavily scrutinized by laws about sexual assaults.

Equality is never going to happen because both sides are just going to force the issue in an attempt to gain some leverage to improve their life financially. There are still a lot of expectations of women (prom dresses cannot be rented but tuxedos can and all that jazz) but there are also a lot of expectations of men. Gender roles, despite us trying to say they no longer exist in first world countries, are far from extinct.
 

Colour Scientist

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TheIronRuler said:
Whenever the term is brought up in a discussion it is quickly shot down and disregarded. Like how most politicians work, they change the topic as fast as possible when you comfront them wth this fact.
It is very possible to change it. You put an appeal to the high court of Justice (Which is a seperate entity from the state and is supposed to critisize its actions. This is where the lawsuit against the army was filed, the supreme court allowed her to paprticipate and therefore the army changed its draft regulations and allowed females to be in front line units.)
Why not try and change it then?
 

FrankatronX

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Simply put. The typical stereotyped roles that made our respective roles in life clear as male and female no longer apply but they're still heavily present in our psyche. We no longer live in that world. Our world is made up of thousands of choices that simply weren't practical 25 or 30 years ago.
If you were born a boy or girl in the fifties then it's probably likely that a heap of the older generations ideals were put upon you. As it is with all new generations. I'm sure I'll do it to my kids too but the point is not to place blame. The way we were raised no longer has the mass impact it did because we are not given a single ideal of our gender to aspire too. That's the easy part. The reason we get the idea that sexism towards men is becoming commonplace has less to do with sexist backlash and more to do with the modern role of the male and female.
Ask yourself what a modern woman is.
If you're thinking words like: Capable, Strong, Independant, Confident or Itelligent you're being sexist. This is the way men thought of themselves in the fifties and large parts of the sixties as well. To apply these outdated concepts on women instead of men is not equality. This started to change in the seventies with the sexual revolution. (Praise the gods of heavy metal for that one)
Did any of that make sense?
 

BiscuitTrouser

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May 19, 2008
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Wow your opinion is so super new and far out there. Its almost like no one has every discussed this before.

Seen this thread a million times. Society will always impose expectations on people and genders, its just culture. Its more than likely never going to be 100% equal because women and men are biologically and psycologically different to a point where you cannot say they are identical in their role in the world and society. We still dont have female front line infantry. Deal with it.
 

TheIronRuler

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Colour-Scientist said:
TheIronRuler said:
Whenever the term is brought up in a discussion it is quickly shot down and disregarded. Like how most politicians work, they change the topic as fast as possible when you comfront them wth this fact.
It is very possible to change it. You put an appeal to the high court of Justice (Which is a seperate entity from the state and is supposed to critisize its actions. This is where the lawsuit against the army was filed, the supreme court allowed her to paprticipate and therefore the army changed its draft regulations and allowed females to be in front line units.)
Why not try and change it then?
Took some time to look it up and write it down properly.
In order to file a lawsuit, you need to show that you have been grieved by what you are trying to change.
The woman wanted to be a pilot but she couldn't due to the fact that the course for pilots didn't accept females at the time, there was no demand till she came along. Therefore she won.
But a man can't file a lawsuit saying that not having the time of service for men and women similar because it didn't hurt him personally, it's just not equal.
.
 

Dark Knifer

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Oh look! It's this thread again. Haven't seen a million of those in the past week or anything...

OT: For me it seems pretty balanced at the moment. There will always be inequality because men and women are different and both will find problems with each other because of this.