Sexsim: have the tables actually turned?

[khantron]

People think Michelle Bachmann is crazy, but take Rick Perry seriously. So no, the tables haven't turned.

And when the radical proposition that "women are people too" is brought up expect cries of "feminazi," even by non-conservatives.

 

[Dott]

I don't know about everywhere else, but here in Denmark, there has been talk about a mandatory amount of women employees. For example, a company would be required to employ so and so many women, or a certain percentage, or the government would poke them with a pointy stick or whatever.

It just seems daft. This isn't equal rights, this is women being favoured over men, and while the system hasn't been put into any kind of action yet, and likely never will, it's plain stupid to do something like this.

 

[Zerazar]

In many ways, yes.
In other ways, no.
Hard to tell who's "better off". I'd just wish we would actively work towards equality rather than introducing shit like a requiring firms to hire women over men for no other reason than those double X's.
Equality or no, there's still a cultural difference between men and women in western society, and that's okay.

 

[Furioso]

Being a man actually worked out for me. Teaching was traditionally a job for women, and the realization of how male role models are important for male children has made it easier for a man to get a teaching job than a woman

And how old are you? I can see that argument being at least 10-15 years ago, but coming from personal experience going through our education system (23 now), I always had a fairly equal mix of male/female teachers, at all levels.

In some areas they have mixed it up pretty well but in many areas it's mostly women, especially at the elementary level

 

[Joshimodo]

Being a man actually worked out for me. Teaching was traditionally a job for women, and the realization of how male role models are important for male children has made it easier for a man to get a teaching job than a woman

Err, no, males were typically teachers in old education institutions...



Anyway, I made this exact kind of thread a short while back. Best of luck, OP.

 

[Continuity]

OT: No. Not by a long shot. Men have it less better than women, but we're still favoured in pretty much every field in pretty much every way. Number of female CEO's of Fortune 500 company's? 12. 0.024%. Things are slightly better in Fortune 1000, where women make up 0.025% of CEOs. I accept that these positions are filled based on talent and experience, but 12 out of 500?

If you want to be among the very richest, you better be a man.

There is a very big danger in inferring cause from measured effect. Perhaps there are many more male CEO's, but we can't be so lazy as to just assume that this is because of sex discrimination. Men and women are different, men are much more aggressively ambitious and are much more likely to want to take their career to the very top.. thats my theory anyway.

Shold we force balance where there is no natural balance by actively discriminationg against men (or against women for that mater)? Why would we do that, It makes no logical sense.

If it can be proven than this disparity in number is directly and irrefutably down to sex descrimination then fine, something needs to be done about it.. but it is very very lazy and very very dangerous to just look at the figures and make that assumption.

 

[nukethetuna]

You hear a lot of people say "affirmative action is hurting men, the feminists have made it so it's easier for women now than men!". It's the same thing as when people claim that racism has been completely eliminated, and "reverse racism" (which in itself is a nonsensical word) has made the white man at a disadvantage. Well, first of all, feminism isn't about pushing women to be more important or treated better than men, it's about equality, so if it were the case that women had it easier, feminists would technically still be pissed.

Secondly, the issue with these statements is that as a man, or a white person, you are pretty much blind to the inherent advantages of your sex/race. All you see is your life changing for the worse while everyone else seemingly gets "free passes" and "handouts". If you take a step back and look at society as a whole, and the institutions and social norms that govern our lives, they are rooted in patriarchy and in white supremacy. This isn't necessarily intentional, either, it's just remnants of the past that aren't so easy to change.

One of the biggest obstacles to remedying institutional problems like this is in fact that the privileged groups (whites, males, etc) either refuse to see the problem, or don't see it as their responsibility.

 

[Continuity]

You hear a lot of people say "affirmative action is hurting men, the feminists have made it so it's easier for women now than men!". It's the same thing as when people claim that racism has been completely eliminated, and "reverse racism" (which in itself is a nonsensical word) has made the white man at a disadvantage. Well, first of all, feminism isn't about pushing women to be more important or treated better than men, it's about equality...

What sort of equality though? equal chances or equal numbers?

 

[Estelindis]

It depends on the field in question. A woman often isn't paid the same as a man for doing equal work. On the other hand, women often seem to have an unfair advantage in custody battles over children.

 

[Vault101]

No, we aren't. Women still have to deal with shit that men don't have to, and you can't say the same about the opposite. I have no idea why everyone on the internet is so against feminism.

Because of feminazis. I know the movement, as a whole, demands equality, but them dumbshits are looking for supremacy.

Anyway, getting a job as an engineer (especially electrical engineering) is much easier as a woman. This is an unfortunate problem that we currently face.

Being the lazy, never-had-a-summer-job bastard that I am, I don't know much about affirmative action and all that, but is it really worse than having a worse biological setup (periods, pregnancy...), more prone to receiving violence (rape, spousal abuse...), and several other things I could mention, but am too lazy to elaborate on(lower income, larger share of housework, media problems, more strict social standards)?

Wait a second, back that train up.
Worse biological setup? What about testicular and prostate problems, they kill a fair amount of men each year. Also what about guys having that lovely extra problem of being prone to certain types of hernias due to the male set up?
More prone to violence? Last I checked in domestic cases women actually hit more often, it just happens that when guys hit they do more damage.
Lower income, a bit debatable, aren't women now the majority in a lot of high paying professions such as doctors, lawyers and whatnot?
Media problems? Please elaborate, because last I checked women in the media get away with a lot of crap that guys don't. An old guy calls some women nappy headed and a lynch mob goes after him. A bunch of women make fun of and demean a guy who gets his penis cut off by a spouse and its hilarious and "you go girl". If a guy did the same, he would be out of a job permanently in any media, but for women hey its cool because its empowering to them.

Breast cancer? And I doubt hernias are worse than pregnancy.
The second... I'd ask for sources but I didn't use any either (aside from Wikipedia). So I guess that's a draw?
Again, we're both talking out our asses.
I meant that women are always shown as highly sexualized in pretty much everything. You could say the same for men, but I don't think women are as ok about all their role models shown with huge boobs as men are with theirs with muscles (also, I've heard that overmuscled guys aren't that attractive to women, and that girls are attracted to asses anyways).
Special note on Don Imus: Agree that that was stupid. I think the thing was that he had said worse and "nappy headed hoes" was the straw that broke the camels back. Also, that may have been about racism as much as sexism.

A pregnancy doesn't destroy you for life. A Hernia will. A Pregnancy doesn't increase your odds exponentially for having another pregnancy. A Hernia does. If you have a hernia, you will have another, in the same place, it's only a matter of time. And that Hernia will increase the odds even more.

I dont know...pregnacy can screw with your life in alot of unpleasant ways (mostly if it isnt planned)


anyway a hernia isnt somthing thats expected of you at some point (I mean cmon, you would automaticlaly find it a little weaird talking to a woman of a certain age to find out she doesnt have any kids?)

anyway that said I supose both pregancy and hernias kind of suck

 

[Ubermetalhed]

I am starting to see that it is actually becoming a disadvantage to be white and male nowadays. Especially in gaining employment.

Negative diversity is becoming commonplace.

 

[LiquidGrape]

You hear a lot of people say "affirmative action is hurting men, the feminists have made it so it's easier for women now than men!". It's the same thing as when people claim that racism has been completely eliminated, and "reverse racism" (which in itself is a nonsensical word) has made the white man at a disadvantage. Well, first of all, feminism isn't about pushing women to be more important or treated better than men, it's about equality, so if it were the case that women had it easier, feminists would technically still be pissed.

Secondly, the issue with these statements is that as a man, or a white person, you are pretty much blind to the inherent advantages of your sex/race. All you see is your life changing for the worse while everyone else seemingly gets "free passes" and "handouts". If you take a step back and look at society as a whole, and the institutions and social norms that govern our lives, they are rooted in patriarchy and in white supremacy. This isn't necessarily intentional, either, it's just remnants of the past that aren't so easy to change.

One of the biggest obstacles to remedying institutional problems like this is in fact that the privileged groups (whites, males, etc) either refuse to see the problem, or don't see it as their responsibility.

Bless you.

Latent privilege is precisely the problem, and it is when these privileges are taken away that some claim their rights are being compromised - even though the truth of the matter is that they are simply in the process of being levelled with everyone else.

 

[nukethetuna]

You hear a lot of people say "affirmative action is hurting men, the feminists have made it so it's easier for women now than men!". It's the same thing as when people claim that racism has been completely eliminated, and "reverse racism" (which in itself is a nonsensical word) has made the white man at a disadvantage. Well, first of all, feminism isn't about pushing women to be more important or treated better than men, it's about equality...

What sort of equality though? equal chances or equal numbers?

Equal chances. This causes kind of a "damned all around" situation, because many people cite the inequality of numbers as the problem. This could in turn lead to overcompensating through policies that DO give women a better chance, which ultimately would turn the tables.

I believe that social inequalities can't really be fixed instantly through policy or laws. Those changes can HELP, but in the end reshaping society's beliefs and societal institutions is a slow process that requires a startling amount of awareness on the part of the average citizen.

If equal chances are given, then the equality in numbers will come in time. Getting the equal chances is the hard part, because it's not just laws and policies that need to adjust, it's the mindset and ideology of society.

 

[A Free Man]

snip

I don't think the tables have turned. Even if it is no longer forced, it is still generally accpeted as a social norm for women to maintain roles similar to those they have been expected to perform in the past. Until the stigma, of being male and female disappears there will always be differences. Because of this I think it is still worse off being female, however it is good that people are acknowledging that there has finally been a lot of progress, but there is still a ways to go yet. The very fact that there is still a "men vs women" thing being discussed just goes to show that it really isn't close to disappearing.

But one thing I really don't like is the "worse biological set-up" thing I keep hearing... Really? How could you possibly argue which gender has the worse biological set-up, and even if you could, can that then be argued as a point against the opposing gender? As if it is somehow womens fault that men can get hit in the balls, or mens fault that women have to go through labor? Such arguments are silly and irrelevent, as far as I'm concerned, sexism should refer only to the social expectations we impose on each other, which is what should stop, not biological generalisations that are out of our control.

Since the ideal societal situation concerning gender involves ignoring gender entirely, it's probably best never to discuss the matter.

I don't have many strong opinions on this topic one way or the other, as in my life I have been lucky enough for this problem to be more of a boundary issue then a serious one. But I'd like to quickly say I don't agree with this at all. It is similar to racism in the sense that many people argue that the best solution is a world where people ignore races altogether. Again I totally disagree, I think ignoring differences is as bad, if not worse, than spiting people based on those differences. Ignoring the differences between one another is paramount to conformatism in my opinion, in that it tries to destroy individualism. I don't know if this makes much sense, but what I am trying to say is that people should attempt to understand, if not embrace differences between alternating ways of life rather then ignore them or spite them.

 

[funguy2121]

pretty simple question, are you now "worse off" being a man thease days than being a woman? (you know, within reason in any 1st world society)

to be honest I always get tired of the stupid "men vs women" thing that tends to happen, I think once we got the whole "women should actually do shit other than be in the kitchen" then things get a little complex or end up in a grey area



(and of coarse all those wankers on certain sites I go to saying that ALL women are essentially manipualtive gold digging whores, I unsertand there is an issue but for fuck sake do they realise how stupid it is to say 51% of the world population is the SAME? could I say the ame about men? oh right they would disagree...of coarse,moral of the story stay away from mainstream opinion blogs...)

I'd say women enjoy a lot more freedom and power than men when it comes to the early stages of dating. And if you want to be a (only biologically speaking) woman who's what my grandfather used to call a "drone," a useless couch potato or bimbo who's willing to pay the price in fellatio, then you can probably get away with doing a helluvah lot less in life than a lot of us guys have to do.

That's really about it, as far as I'm concerned. In just about every other aspect of life, down to physiology, women usually have it worse than men.

 

[Dark Knifer]

If a woman ever had abuse of any kind by a spouse, I would understand chopping his junk off.

I'd assume you'd be ok if a man ever had abuse of any kind then you would understand him cutting her uterus out?

OT: As I have posted on this thread that just refuses to go away, it's very much depending where you look at. It's not all sexism towards one gender or another, it comes from both sides.

Understand. Not support.

I get that. I can understand them being angry and all, but I do not understand why they felt the need to horribly mutilate them because it's completely insane and criminal. I realize your not supporting it in any way, I apologize if it came off like that, but my understanding of them is gone the second they go to such perverted and horrific lengths for mere revenge. It lacks any kind of rationality and even heat-of-the-moment doesn't cover it unless she has some severe mental issues.

 

[mgirl]

Recently in my country, they enquired a large population of pupils as to how they felt about people being homosexuals and while only some 13% of the females found homosexuality offensive, I'm sad to say that close to 50% of the males had a problem with it.

I believe you on that, but at the same time, most of the girls that I knew that would either behave defensively around me, or refuse to talk to me, or be outright hostile all claimed that they didn't mind gays, but they were only considering gay men, and are different around gay women.

Even then, the number of people who would actually behave in a negative way is not the norm, and it's usually just a knee jerk reaction, and when you get to know most people, they sort of realise that it's not a big deal.

Of course, it's fully possible I have just been seriously unlucky in the people I've met!

 

[maturin]

Sexism is just rudeness. Patriarchy is what matters, and that's going strong.