Sexual liberation

[Hagi]

people pretend having sex with someone is as casual and consequence free as sharing dinner, discounting any risk of pregnancy or STDs as well as any possible emotional impact.

"Pretend"? The risk of pregnancy and STDs can be made negligible and not a lot of people are going to fall in love with someone just because they fucked.

And yet we have thousands upon thousands of accidental pregnancies.

We have thousands upon thousands of STD infections even in countries where condoms are freely and easily available.

We have the very, very common complaint, both from guys and girls, that they were used for sex.

Most of it easily preventable by treating sex more seriously.

Or when people are shamed for not being promiscuous, ridiculed for saving their virginity or vilified for considering sex something very intimate and special not shared with just anyone.

...aaaaand we go straight from something that hasn't existed for 50 years to something that won't exist for at least another 50.

You live in a very, very small world don't you?

Both complaints are very much alive. The former quite serious and with sometimes fatal consequences. The latter not nearly so harmful but still quite annoying.

 

[Esotera]

there are also double standards in how men & women are treated

Like what?

If a guy sleeps with lots of women, most people won't see it as that bad a thing, but if a girl does this, a lot of people will view her as a slut. We have made progress, it's just we have a very long way to go...

 

[FEichinger]

I ... uhh ... Did I miss anything, or why is "Sexual Liberation" suddenly a thing? Is that part of the whole gay-marriage thing? We suddenly care about whether or not people are allowed to do whatever they want whenever they want and with whomever they want?
Don't get me wrong, I fully agree that we shouldn't invade anyone's privacy on that. If everyone involved gives legitimate consent, who am I to judge? But I can't quite wrap my head around why this is somehow important to discuss.

I personally don't even see the problem with sex itself. Sure, it's seen as social status, so both having too much and too few of it - or too much/few with certain demographics (what's today's "Swedish Girls"?)- is seen as "wrong". But any kind of romantic interaction is seen as social status. "Sexual Liberation" is the least of my worries with this whole system.

 

[Nickolai77]

The public attitude towards sexuality that condemns the natural, the human body, must weigh on the mind of most of us.

I wouldn't really know about that, i never got the impression that there were many people advancing public nudity. There's this naked rambler here in the UK who keeps on getting arrested for repeatedly hiking in the nude and there isn't exactly a public outcry against him being given jail sentences.

I don't think there are many people who want to see other peoples naked bodies quite frankly. I remember going through the showers coming out of a swimming pool in Germany and seeing an old man naked in the nude. It wasn't a pleasant sight at all. I'm all in favour of nudist beaches, and even nude nature trails if they are properly enclosed from the general public, but i'd rather not see the average layperson in the nude.

Then don't look at them. You'd be surprised, when public nudity is legal for a few years you wouldn't even look twice at anyone. And more importantly, kids wouldn't see it as anything out of the ordinary, and sex/nudity wouldn't be taboo or something desirable to engage in simply because of the rebellion factor.

Compare it to something like public kissing. Shocking to some societies, perfectly normal in the modern west.

Most people are perfectly comfortable wearing clothes, so even it was legal to go naked in public i doubt many people would choose to do so because most people like wearing clothes. They are are a statement ones identity, they can make someone appear more attractive, and they serve the practical purpose of keeping us warm. Nudists will always stand out in the crowd i'm afraid, even if public nudism was legal, which is why nudists will never go unnoticed in a public space. And in all likelihood, they would cause offence to many people.

Just go nearest town and watch the people who walk past, how many of them would you want to see naked? The act itself is harmless yes, but there are lots of otherwise harmless behaviours that you can't do in public. You can't piss or defecate in the street because, whilst the act itself is harmless, nobody wants to see piss or shit when they go shopping. Littering and graffiti are otherwise harmless acts that are illegal because it upsets public environments. Public environments are regulated in accordance with what the majority of the population deem acceptable. In Germany you can't publicly display the swastika, in England allowing your dog to defecate in the street can land you with a £1000 fine. If you want to erect a building the general public are legally empowered to stop you from doing so if enough people oppose the construction of such a structure. My university was prevented from building a second wind-turbine because it was deemed to be an eyesore by the general public. As i've explained before, only a small majority of people regard nudism as acceptable public behaviour, it's illegal because nudism's an eyesore.

On private property however, you can walk around nude if the owner of such property consents to it. That's why there's nudist beaches. In private it doesn't matter what you do so long as you don't harm anyone without their informed consent. You can paint the inside of your house full of swastikas or take a dog suffering from diarrhoea and have it shit all over the carpet if you wish. But you can't do that in public for very good reasons.

 

[Easton Dark]

The world in general still has a way to go before it's free of sexual opression. Even countries considered forward and liberal have lingering hate and ignorance on the subject of sex and sexuality. Sad stuff... Lets combat it by having MORE free, open and kinky sex! =D

Like America for instance!

Oh wait... we aren't considered forward and liberal. Damn it.

Like Denmark for instance!

theres that old "double standard" issue, a guy is congradulated for having lots of sex...and girl is shamed and decalred a "slut"

that and its pretty much a "given" in our popular culture that young men are sex crazed..and into porn and all that..its normal

yet women and such being into porn (aside form this 50 shades of grey thing) is not quite a "thing"

its like a hold over from the days of treating a womens virginity has a "sacred thing" and the Idea that women should be "pure" and virginal...I thono society as a whole still has a kind of "virgin/whore" complex

Again, this hasn't been a thing that exists since the '50s or early '60s.

What is this piece you're saying? That's still very much a thing. Denial doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[Anget Colslaw]

I am sexually liberated... by not giving a damn about sex in the first place.

 

[Anget Colslaw]

why do these double posts keep happening to me?

 

[Kae]

-Snip-

Wait, so you pretty much have seen everything or something?
Because how would you know if those double standards are alive or dead, besides you do realize this is an international forum and some of the people you quoted are from different countries, so we are dealing with different cultures, in any case I'm pretty sure you are wrong on this one, unless you are both a man and a woman who has lived in every country and state of each country there's no real way you can know those aren't still things that happen.

 

[The Funslinger]

Well, I'm coming out of a casual sexual relationship that featured a heapin' helpin' of interesting stuff.

Suffice it to say, I'm feeling pretty damn liberated.

 

[Frankster]

theres that old "double standard" issue, a guy is congradulated for having lots of sex...and girl is shamed and decalred a "slut"

Lets not forget the other double standard that accompanies that one: a guy virgin is a failure of humanity, a guy who doesnt get laid as much as others is less manly and is lower on the pecking order in the circles that espouse these views, whereas for women being a virgin is usually seen as a good thing and a woman hasnt slept around is seen as more attractive.

OT I felt particularly liberated in France where sex and nudity is seen as casual (seeing naked women bending over for pharmaceutical advert on way to school does that, guys get treated same way too so both sexes equally objectified when it comes to good looking specimens) and people get desensitized to it so people end up being more relaxed and honest about sex, aswell as less judgemental.
In anglo saxon countries feel liberated in the sense i dont have constraints on who i can sleep but find shaming and judgemental attitudes to be much more common, ex: people flipping out with nudity.
So overall i wouldnt be complainning about my lack of sexual liberation as a straight man.

 

[elvor0]

Christ that was a ***** to cut up.

No it doesn't. Some people might arbitrarily attach some deeper meaning to it, but that's not really intrinsic to the act, just as I might attach a deep psychological meaning to a certain totally awesome Lego castle from my childhood but that doesn't mean that Lego sets intrinsically have some deeper psychological meaning to which everyone is subject.

Well no, but it does put a whole other spin on things. Having sex with someone you feel connection with is a completely different experience than just a one night stand. Not that I don't enjoy onesies, but when you get that point with someone where you feel like you've melded together body and soul, it's pretty intense. I don't think he meant it had a deep feeling intrinsically, just we've risen as a whole in society when it comes to sex.

That and if you don't get that awesome feeling from playing with Lego, then you're just not human.

Or when people are shamed for not being promiscuous, ridiculed for saving their virginity or vilified for considering sex something very intimate and special not shared with just anyone.

...aaaaand we go straight from something that hasn't existed for 50 years to something that won't exist for at least another 50.

His choice of words might be a bit strong, but I do feel you're burying your head in the sand here.

theres that old "double standard" issue, a guy is congradulated for having lots of sex...and girl is shamed and decalred a "slut"

that and its pretty much a "given" in our popular culture that young men are sex crazed..and into porn and all that..its normal

yet women and such being into porn (aside form this 50 shades of grey thing) is not quite a "thing"

its like a hold over from the days of treating a womens virginity has a "sacred thing" and the Idea that women should be "pure" and virginal...I thono society as a whole still has a kind of "virgin/whore" complex

Again, this hasn't been a thing that exists since the '50s or early '60s.

and here.

I don't know, your opening statement about women not giving you the time of day does seem like you're incredibly bitter, not that there's anything wrong with that persay, but it does feel like you're using your own experiences as an excuse to ignore issues that exist. Remember this is a world wide forum, with people from lots of different countries. Even then, going by the assumption that most people will be from Canada, UK or USA, the virginity/whore matrix does very much still exist.

Now I apologize in advance, and if you feel I'm getting personal do feel free to tell me where to stick it. But there is a lot more liberation these days in regards to sex, people are more open to wierd shit, homosexuality and whatnot, and 50 shades of grey has even made more women open to light "BDSM", huzzah!. However! Being sexually liberated doesn't mean that people will want to sleep with you. People are accepted as being gay in most of civilized society these days, meaning they are sexually liberated, but they still have to go through the same shit that the rest of us do in order to pull.

 

[CosmicCommander]

Sex is a remarkably silly and pointless thing that people seem to place on a pedestal above other things that have actual tangible value. The only sort of "sexual liberation" I recognise is freedom from sex. So much of our energies, our culture, and our goals are focused towards obtaining and getting sex, or pushing to be able to get the kind of sex we want. If man had focused on things other than his libido, he'd likely be on Mars by now.

(inb4 neckbeard virgin)

 

[Evilpigeon]

I've never quite understood why people seem to care so much about what other people do privately with each other. Nor have I really spent much time around people who stigmatise others for having too much or too little sex. Why is this an issue that people overthink so much?

Everyone is different and it's their own responsibility to look after themselves, you teach everyone how to do it safely and then let em loose to have as much or as little fun as they like. Fuck by talking in terms of 'sexual liberation' you turn a natural effect of more important issues to recognise that people shouldn't be discriminated against for reasons of birth or any non-harmful lifestyle choices into it's own pointless little partisan argument that further fragments a bigger picture that everyone should be getting behind.

 

[CosmicCommander]

Okay, seriously, what's with the huge Ace population on the Escapist? Did the AVEN forums just have some huge technical issue and shut down, and everyone over there migrated over here? Or what?

Your rapier wit is to be commended, sir.

 

[Easton Dark]

Nope. There's just no evidence that any significant portion of the population believes this. Instead, you'll find that everyone falls into one of two internally consistent opinions: Those who believe "I don't care who you fuck", and those who say "loose girls are sluts, loose men are pigs".

You can't take half of one worldview and half of another and pretend that they represent a coherent belief that anyone, much less a majority of people, actually follows.

There are not just two opinions on this. There are much more than two. And they are not that liberal of a view about this.

I agree with the person you were responding to. Small world syndrome.


(And please, show us the evidence)

 

[Dimitriov]

The public attitude towards sexuality that condemns the natural, the human body, must weigh on the mind of most of us.

I wouldn't really know about that, i never got the impression that there were many people advancing public nudity. There's this naked rambler here in the UK who keeps on getting arrested for repeatedly hiking in the nude and there isn't exactly a public outcry against him being given jail sentences.

I don't think there are many people who want to see other peoples naked bodies quite frankly. I remember going through the showers coming out of a swimming pool in Germany and seeing an old man naked in the nude. It wasn't a pleasant sight at all. I'm all in favour of nudist beaches, and even nude nature trails if they are properly enclosed from the general public, but i'd rather not see the average layperson in the nude.

Then don't look at them. You'd be surprised, when public nudity is legal for a few years you wouldn't even look twice at anyone. And more importantly, kids wouldn't see it as anything out of the ordinary, and sex/nudity wouldn't be taboo or something desirable to engage in simply because of the rebellion factor.

Compare it to something like public kissing. Shocking to some societies, perfectly normal in the modern west.

I think that's a poor example myself, and that it underlines a fundamental flaw in your theory. I have lived in metropolitan areas of Canada all my life, which is to say a fairly permissive and socially liberal area of the western world.

I still find public kissing to be kind of... gross... it just doesn't seem to be appropriate behaviour in public (for the record I am talking about gay guys kissing, guys kissing girls, girls kissing guys, whatever).

What it comes down to for me is privacy. Privacy is important, and it works both ways. A person shouldn't have others intrude into their private life, and they shouldn't allow their private life to intrude on others.

There are an awful lot of people who I don't want to see naked, it would be incredibly rude for them to force their nudity on me. Taking a shit is pretty goddam natural, doesn't mean you should do it in front of other people... nudity kind of follows the same pattern.

My point being that I don't care what anyone does in private, but you have no fucking right to try and force everyone into your shitty little communal society fairy-world of infinite tolerance that would in fact be incredibly oppressive to many people such as myself.