Sexuality, Diversity, Coming out

[Lieju]

People probably dont just decide overnight that they are gay. Its just natural to be straight because we are designed to reproduce. Im not saying its unnatural to be gay (far from it). Even if there was no cultural stigma i think for a lot of people (and correct me if im wrong) it still takes a while for them to realise they are gay themselves. Sure a lot of people know straight away that they are gay but for others it probably takes a bit longer to "come out".

The assumption tends to be that everyone is straight unless implied otherwise.

So even people themselves tend to just assume and then label their feelings in way that seems like the norm.

For example, I'm a lesbian, and never had any big crisis over it, but even I assumed I was straight, and so growing up I assumed me liking a boy was sexual attraction. Until I learned the difference between liking someone and being attracted to them in different ways. That for example thinking someone is cute doesn't mean you necessarily want to do anything sexual with them.

And looking back to my childhood,I had crushes on girls. I just never realized they were, and them being little kiddy-crushes, it's not like they were sexual either. (But had those been boys, the society would have labeled it as budding romantic interest)

This is not how society needs to function.

For example a society where everyone is just assumed to be bi would be easily possible, or one where your sexual orientation doesn't matter at all, because you're just assumed to marry someone for the status etc and then have romantic affairs or something.

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

For example, I'm a lesbian, and never had any big crisis over it, but even I assumed I was straight, and so growing up I assumed me liking a boy was sexual attraction. Until I learned the difference between liking someone and being attracted to them in different ways. That for example thinking someone is cute doesn't mean you necessarily want to do anything sexual with them.

And looking back to my childhood,I had crushes on girls. I just never realized they were, and them being little kiddy-crushes, it's not like they were sexual either. (But had those been boys, the society would have labeled it as budding romantic interest)

Couldn't have said it better myself. I think it's safe to say that most of us have these sexual awakenings at some point in our lives. A majority of people awaken to feelings of attraction to the opposite sex, some of us to the same sex, some to both, and some to none. But no matter which revelation one has, none of us willfully choose it. It just happens. It's there. Then we must choose what to do with the feelings we have, as well as choosing how to act upon them.

I remember the exact minute that I realized that my attraction to girls was more than platonic. That was 24 years ago and I can still picture every detail as vividly as the moment it happened - that's how powerful it was.

 

[Something Amyss]

Don't forget that a lot of gay people aren't fond of the existence of bisexuality because idiots use it to point at gay people and go "see, its just a phase!"

Oh God, I hate that. It effectively comes down to "it makes us look bad!" and it's very similar to many of the complaints against the trans community, too. "Being trans sort of plays into one of the dated stereotypes used against gay people, so stop doing it!" is basically a "screw you."

According to Gallup, 30% of the US is still against homosexuality being legal. Not gay marriage, or being openly gay in the military, but just being gay.

I'm surprised it's that low. I really wish I was joking when I said that, but I live in one of the bluest states in the country and I'd be surprised if we had less than 30% here. Hell, I live nestled between two of the largest gay communities in the US (per capita) and there's still a ton of not just opposition to gay marriage, but also outright gay bashing, harassment, and violence just for the "crime" of not being straight (and cis).

Here, have some cocoa.

Trust me, the last thing I need is more stimulants. Thanks, though!

Also, I think that when it comes to marginalized groups, they often want to present an unified front.
So there's the fear of that if people identify as pansexuals for example it will just serve to confuse the public, and it would be better if everyone identified as the same, as long as their goals are about the same.

To be fair, this may come from larger society. I mean, look at the reactions you get on the escapist. "What? Now I have to know what a pansexual is? Genderqueer? WTF is that? Why do you people keep having to add concepts?????"

And this is a more friendly community towards sexual and gender minorities than much of the web.

On a personal note, people just seem to decide I'm either gay or straight and run with that preconception despite any and all evidence to the contrary. I think I get away with a lot more than people around me because I'm perceived as an artist and therefore can be "eccentric," but still. And I do "get away" with more than a lot of people around me.

There's also long been an infighting amongst minorities as though rights are a finite resource and if another group gets them, then "we" don't. But that segues into the other major point you make.

Then as far as LGBT+ goes, lumping gender identity and sexual orientation together causes a host of other issues. Since while gays and transpeople for example face the same kinds of issues (if only because many non-LGBT people think they're the same, and a lot of transphobia is rooted in homophobia) the support they need also differs.

I think at the very least, the broad strokes are in line enough that a larger coalition makes sense. I think there should be as much inclusion as can be afforded, really. The biggest problem is then that the smaller minority tends to not get represented. For example, genbder identity was one of the first things dropped in the US when negotiating for adding LGBT groups to hate crime legislation. There just aren't enough people willing to fight for that because now you're talking a fraction of a fraction (minorityception), and it really sucks. It's also hard to divorce them simply because so many trans/genderqueer/etc people are some shade of "not straight." And especially about same sex marriage, since places may count you as either gender depending, so even what should be a heterosexual marriage could be claimed as a "gay" one based on original plumbing or whatever other criteria I think are nonsense but have a real-world application are.

I get the conflict angle you're talking about, and one of the things about that is that it tends to be used as a wedge issue by majorities to keep from having to give ground. In California, we had the recent instance of the GOP trying to play gays against blacks in the wake of (and possibly leading up to) prop 8. And while it's understanble that eople under duress might not think clearly, the whole "we're not against you...it's the damn negroes!" thing should have been a fairly obvious one.

And honestly, given the end of anti-miscegnation laws is only slightly older than I am, I would like to get racial minorities on my side. Because it really wasn't all that long ago that race was a similar factor in determining who could marry.

Equal rights, at least in broad strikes, should be an issue that doesn't just impact groups on an individual basis. We're all in the same boat on some level.

But then, this is probably completely unrealistic. If you can't even have LGBT groups without the T getting shoved to the side, what chance does a larger coalition have?

A fellow Vermonter! /salute

Holy crap, that brings the numbers to like, four. I think that's the most Vermonters I've ever seen in one community that wasn't literally in or about Vermont!

 

[Something Amyss]

For example a society where everyone is just assumed to be bi would be easily possible, or one where your sexual orientation doesn't matter at all, because you're just assumed to marry someone for the status etc and then have romantic affairs or something.

Hell, many people against gays or gay rights already assume it's a lifestyle choice, that one chooses to be gay. So aren't they admitting we're all bisexual and the only reason to be straight is cultural norms/divine mandate?

There isn't really a problem with celebrating diversity, but I understand where the OP is coming from. I prefer the idea to celebrate unity, celebrate the fact that we are all human beings with feelings, emotions, dreams, desires, goals, etc. Celebrating diversity just puts a spotlight on the things that make us different from each other, creating an "us"/"them" division. It's divisions like that which make things like racism or sexism possible. If everyone could just ignore the things that make us different from each other, I think society as a whole would be much better for it.

The us/them divide already exists. Diversity celebration is about saying it's okay to be "them," too.

The fact is, we are different on some levels, and differences will always exist. There's a specious level of positivity to focusing on our similarities, but in practice it tends to foster bigotry by ignoring minorities until they are alien and scary.

Treating everyone the same is how we got where we are now.

 

[COMaestro]

For example a society where everyone is just assumed to be bi would be easily possible, or one where your sexual orientation doesn't matter at all, because you're just assumed to marry someone for the status etc and then have romantic affairs or something.

Hell, many people against gays or gay rights already assume it's a lifestyle choice, that one chooses to be gay. So aren't they admitting we're all bisexual and the only reason to be straight is cultural norms/divine mandate?

There isn't really a problem with celebrating diversity, but I understand where the OP is coming from. I prefer the idea to celebrate unity, celebrate the fact that we are all human beings with feelings, emotions, dreams, desires, goals, etc. Celebrating diversity just puts a spotlight on the things that make us different from each other, creating an "us"/"them" division. It's divisions like that which make things like racism or sexism possible. If everyone could just ignore the things that make us different from each other, I think society as a whole would be much better for it.

The us/them divide already exists. Diversity celebration is about saying it's okay to be "them," too.

The fact is, we are different on some levels, and differences will always exist. There's a specious level of positivity to focusing on our similarities, but in practice it tends to foster bigotry by ignoring minorities until they are alien and scary.

Treating everyone the same is how we got where we are now.

I have to disagree with your last sentence. It is precisely because we did not treat everyone the same that we are where we are now. If everyone had been treated the same, respectfully with the same rights as everyone else, then (for example) slavery in America never would have happened. Humans are always quick to note the differences between themselves and others, whether it be skin color, orientation, religion or even something as stupid as physical or intellectual capabilities (the old stereotype of jocks bullying nerds). This is what created the us/them divide in the first place.

 

[Poetic Nova]

If I ever came out in front of my own family I would be disowned, that's for sure.
What I want to say is is that coming out isn't as easy as you might think, there's still alot of hate going on. Let alone the fact that there still is alot of misunderstanding when it comes to being gay/lesbian/bi, (especially being bi from my experiences).

*sigh*
If only coming out was easy.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I have to disagree with your last sentence. It is precisely because we did not treat everyone the same that we are where we are now. If everyone had been treated the same, respectfully with the same rights as everyone else, then (for example) slavery in America never would have happened. Humans are always quick to note the differences between themselves and others, whether it be skin color, orientation, religion or even something as stupid as physical or intellectual capabilities (the old stereotype of jocks bullying nerds). This is what created the us/them divide in the first place.

The problem is, it doesn't matter if you think people should be treated the same, because a zillion other people do not.

For one reason or another, people often confuse recognising or responding to a division with causing one. Yes, it would be better to live in a world where we didn't have to pay such attention to out differences, but because a host of other people don't think so, we can't ignore the issue.

 

[Something Amyss]

I have to disagree with your last sentence. It is precisely because we did not treat everyone the same that we are where we are now. If everyone had been treated the same, respectfully with the same rights as everyone else, then (for example) slavery in America never would have happened. Humans are always quick to note the differences between themselves and others, whether it be skin color, orientation, religion or even something as stupid as physical or intellectual capabilities (the old stereotype of jocks bullying nerds). This is what created the us/them divide in the first place.

Keep in mind slavery was an institution before racism was an element. Slavery in America happened because of an evolution of multiple principles that could have easily happened in a slightly different configuration.

That's kind of the problem. Even if we remove race as an issue, we'll still be seeing this sort of thing. Because we have a "one size fits all" solution to problems.