Sexuality in Mass Effect

[Pyode]

And there are films written by straight, white writers that feature black or gay people. The point still stands; people are not constrained by "what they know". How would they be able to write the characters of psychopaths, paedophiles and rapists if they could only model characters on themselves?

And you would find this impossible with homosexual characters?

That's a pretty dim view to take. As aforementioned, 99.9% of video games feature heterosexual characters, most of them in romantic situations. Yet somehow, I am able to appreciate their merits without being repulsed by their sexuality. It is not that hard.

And I am talking about any characters at all. The fact is, homosexuals are confined to the gaming character ghetto. They do not exist - aside from rare cases like Jade Empire and niche indie games. Christ, even a comedic secondary character would be preferable to developers pretending they don't even exist.

I like how, in all that, you completely ignored my main point, even though I said it twice in that post. Here I'll say it again.

The only reason a straight writer will make a gay character is if it is essential to the plot. You are asking for a gay character to be shoehorned in for no other reason then for the sake of having a gay character. No self-respecting writer will shoehorn something in like that just for the sake of pleasing someone or not looking like a bigot. It's not only disrespectful to the story, but it cheapens what is being forced in as well.

See the amount of money grossed by Halo 3, and the considerable media coverage of its release.

Because I'm sure that more people have played Halo then have watched Casablanca, Pulp Fiction, Alien, or any number of great movies from the past 100 years.

Yes, I know that video games make a lot of money, but that is just as much due to having exceptionally high production costs as it is popularity.

You have to realize that videogames as a story telling medium have only hit their stride in the past 15 years or so. Movies have had over 100 years. So, yes, more people watch movies then play videogames. A lot more.

Then make it a secondary character.

Although again, I find it stupid that heterosexuals would find it difficult to relate to a gay protagonist, since - as aforementioned - I have never had that issue with straight protagonists. Lord knows, maybe if games actually had homosexuals, people would become more tolerant.

Again, it's more about the writer than the player. (see above)

That being said, I'm using the words harder and easier for a reason, yet you seem to be ignoring that fact.

I'm not saying it's impossible for a straight person to relate to a gay person. I'm saying it's easier for a straight person to relate to a straight person. And, I must clarify, we are talking about romance plot specifically. Whether or not the Master Chief is gay has no bearing on the story what so ever and, as such, would not make him more or less relate-able.

And this still does not explain why they simply could not have made a gay character while they were working on all the other characters, since that argument could apply to any character at all. Furthermore, if they were able to go through the apparantly time-consuming process of making two lesbian options, what is one gay option to that?

There is actually only one lesbian option, and that isn't even technically a lesbian option (not to mention the fact that if you pursue the relationship, the person kills you during the sex). You don't have sex with Kelly, you have dinner with her, and there isn't even a cut-scene for it. The screen just fades out for a few seconds.

They had already demonstrated what was possible. They had taken steps to advance story-telling and make video gaming a more respected medium. And then they apparantly throw that away in favour of pandering to "Lesbian sex is hawt" while edging "icky gays" under the rug.

I like how you are implying that Bioware is being homophobic yet, between DA: O and Jade Empire (an example you keep bringing up) Bioware is actually at the forfront of having gays in videogames. The fact that they omitted it from this one game (a game, I might ad, where all of the male romances are shown specifically to be straight) is really not that big of a deal.

Maybe you should try and get Epic to make Marcus Phoenix and Dom Sanchez lovers. At least then you might be on to something.

 

[Unguarded Toast]

Honestly, do you really think it would affect the game experience in any way, should they place in a homosexual subplot character?
I fail to see the point with this entier discussion since what the creators of it, and RyVal, seem to belive is that the game creators would for some reason deliberately have excluded a homosexual character.

Now, to begin with it doesn't quite make sence, in core, all game makers want to (in some extence) make money. Bad publicity causes less buyers, meaning less money. Does it make sense to anyone here that they would intentionally create all this bad publicity that it seems to have caused them, only so that they wouldn't need to make a gay subplot?

 

[RyVal]

And there are films written by straight, white writers that feature black or gay people. The point still stands; people are not constrained by "what they know". How would they be able to write the characters of psychopaths, paedophiles and rapists if they could only model characters on themselves?

And you would find this impossible with homosexual characters?

That's a pretty dim view to take. As aforementioned, 99.9% of video games feature heterosexual characters, most of them in romantic situations. Yet somehow, I am able to appreciate their merits without being repulsed by their sexuality. It is not that hard.

And I am talking about any characters at all. The fact is, homosexuals are confined to the gaming character ghetto. They do not exist - aside from rare cases like Jade Empire and niche indie games. Christ, even a comedic secondary character would be preferable to developers pretending they don't even exist.

I like how, in all that, you completely ignored my main point, even though I said it twice in that post. Here I'll say it again.

The only reason a straight writer will make a gay character is if it is essential to the plot.

See Indigo Prophecy. Secondary gay character whose sexuality bears no importance for the plot; a character who exists for the sake of existing, rather than being the centre of attention. I'll say it again: your claim holds no water.

There is a wealth of films and novels - written by straight writers - which include gay characters. Gay characters who act like any other character would - who contribute as much to the story as a normal character would.

You are asking for a gay character to be shoehorned in for no other reason then for the sake of having a gay character.

No; I am asking for a gay character to be included, not "shoehorned in". Once again, a Role-Playing Game should offer you the ability to play how you want to play - relationships and all.

No self-respecting writer will shoehorn something in like that just for the sake of pleasing someone or not looking like a bigot. It's not only disrespectful to the story, but it cheapens what is being forced in as well.

Just off the top of my head, see the Black Magician trilogy by Trudi Canavan. One of the main characters and a minor character are gay. This relationship is not significant to the plot. Trudi Canvan is not gay (for obvious reasons). Apparantly, you are able to include gay characters as normal people without the story becoming "cheapened".

And really, just what is your basis for this? How does the inclusion of a minor gay character degrade the story? Was Tropic Thunder ruined by the fact that Alpo Chino was gay? Was Indigo Prophecy's story - before it went batshit insane - ruined by the fact that the stockbroker character is gay?

I'm going to say something - and try not to immediately respond to this with yet another "You're just calling everyone homophobic". But the reason why homophobia is so persistent is precisely because homosexuals are marginalised in the media. I am not asking for every game to have a gay character - but games like Mass Effect 2, which claim to be mature and adult dramas, should not just ignore these issues altogether while pandering to the "Lesbians are hot" crowd. More than one RPG featuring an actual homosexual character per decade is not too much to ask for.

See the amount of money grossed by Halo 3, and the considerable media coverage of its release.

Because I'm sure that more people have played Halo then have watched Casablanca, Pulp Fiction, Alien, or any number of great movies from the past 100 years.

You'd be surprised.

Yes, I know that video games make a lot of money, but that is just as much due to having exceptionally high production costs as it is popularity.

As I said, "considerable media coverage". Video games are no longer the minority market they used to be. See the coverage of MW2's launch, the controversy over its "No Russian" level, the amount of celebrities trying to cash in on video games, the political debates over them.

You have to realize that videogames as a story telling medium have only hit their stride in the past 15 years or so. Movies have had over 100 years. So, yes, more people watch movies then play videogames. A lot more.

And how are they going to get fully into their stride when even the most lauded of them still cannot even touch upon something as basic as homosexuality? You do not advance by standing still. RPGs should be pushing the envelope for story-telling, not burying it.

Then make it a secondary character.

Although again, I find it stupid that heterosexuals would find it difficult to relate to a gay protagonist, since - as aforementioned - I have never had that issue with straight protagonists. Lord knows, maybe if games actually had homosexuals, people would become more tolerant.

Again, it's more about the writer than the player. (see above)

See my answer at the beginning.

That being said, I'm using the words harder and easier for a reason, yet you seem to be ignoring that fact.

And I am pointing out that I have no issues whatsoever with having to play heterosexual characters - despite their ubiquity. I am not squicked out by heterosexual romance cut scenes. I do not start whining about them "forcing their sexuality on me" when they start flirting with each other. If homosexuals are able to bear this in practically every game they play, then heterosexuals really do not have a right to complain about it being in one game. It is classic double standards.

I'm not saying it's impossible for a straight person to relate to a gay person. I'm saying it's easier for a straight person to relate to a straight person. And, I must clarify, we are talking about romance plot specifically. Whether or not the Master Chief is gay has no bearing on the story what so ever and, as such, would not make him more or less relate-able.

Evertime I speak with you, you reset the parameters of our discussion. I am talking about homosexual characters - not romances and sex scenes. Just normal, flesh-and-blood characters who act the same as any other character. I'm not demanding five-hour interactive intercourse sessions.

And this still does not explain why they simply could not have made a gay character while they were working on all the other characters, since that argument could apply to any character at all. Furthermore, if they were able to go through the apparantly time-consuming process of making two lesbian options, what is one gay option to that?

There is actually only one lesbian option, and that isn't even technically a lesbian option (not to mention the fact that if you pursue the relationship, the person kills you during the sex). You don't have sex with Kelly, you have dinner with her, and there isn't even a cut-scene for it. The screen just fades out for a few seconds.

Again, you seem to think I am demanding sex scenes. I evidently have access to a computer and the Internet. If I wanted to get my rocks off, I could quite easily bring up Google. We are talking about gay characters.

They had already demonstrated what was possible. They had taken steps to advance story-telling and make video gaming a more respected medium. And then they apparantly throw that away in favour of pandering to "Lesbian sex is hawt" while edging "icky gays" under the rug.

I like how you are implying that Bioware is being homophobic

I like it how you are one in a long line of people accusing me of accusing others of being homophobic, despite not using those words nor that sentiment.

There is a difference between being homophobic yourself and sacrificing your integrity to pander to the homophobia of others.

yet, between DA: O and Jade Empire (an example you keep bringing up) Bioware is actually at the forfront of having gays in videogames.

Which then makes it even more puzzling why they would omit in this example, unless - as aforementioned - they are pandering to the "lesbians are hawt, gays not" crowd.

And again, BioWare being an example of writers creating gay characters without them being essential to the plot.

The fact that they omitted it from this one game (a game, I might ad, where all of the male romances are shown specifically to be straight) is really not that big of a deal.

So, what, we've had our token RPG featuring the ability to have your own character reflect yourself, so we should just shut up and wait another 5 years for the next one?

 

[RyVal]

Am I the only one who doesn't understand the banning of EspirituExterminatus? I mean he did nothing wrong except state opinions and facts, and defend himself against personal attacks by Mother Yeti.

Because not taking sides with the minority is unacceptable, I suppose. But I agree with you, his banning was the dumbest and shittiest moderation I've ever seen. RyVal is probably sitting in some corner with a "you're biased!!!!!!!!" comment waiting right now, but whatever.

One must ask why you would pre-emptively make such a statement.

You may not see anything wrong with comparing homosexuals to paedophiles and claiming they have malformed brains. Good for you. I did, and since he was reported for his comments, someone else must have as well.

 

[Mother Yeti]

There isn't any gay romance in Mass Effect.

Liara and Femshep don't count as a gay romance. Asari don't have genders.

Give. Me. A. BREAAAAAAK.

 

[Mother Yeti]

Am I the only one who doesn't understand the banning of EspirituExterminatus? I mean he did nothing wrong except state opinions and facts, and defend himself against personal attacks by Mother Yeti.

Because not taking sides with the minority is unacceptable, I suppose. But I agree with you, his banning was the dumbest and shittiest moderation I've ever seen. RyVal is probably sitting in some corner with a "you're biased!!!!!!!!" comment waiting right now, but whatever.

I dunno, that dude was pretty crazy. I also like how he accused me of being gay to get attention (something that had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand), and yet apparently I'm the one who was personally attacking him.

 

[Mother Yeti]

There isn't any gay romance in Mass Effect.

Liara and Femshep don't count as a gay romance. Asari don't have genders.

Give. Me. A. BREAAAAAAK.

Its true, read the codex.

I know that's it "true" from a storyline standpoint, but you can't tell me that Asari, with their breasts and their feminine pronouns and their female voice actors, aren't meant to be taken as female, and their sex scenes with FemShep aren't meant to be understood as lesbian.

 

[Mother Yeti]

I've been lurking on this thread for a while now and it seems to me that no one pointed out that being a lesbian and being gay are THE SAME THING. Someone might have, quote if necessary. You treat it like a symbol.

As the original poster is a gay girl gamer, why does she care? maybe to champion some group that she apparently has no relation to, like Major Kyle and the Biotics.

If you're hoping that a company is a benevolent deity that looks upon its audience and caters to every outcry of unhappiness that arises - Why do you think that?
First of all, they care about profits, Second of all, do you really think the developers want to rinse and repeat things. Games are always about trying out different ways to present gameplay.

You can always contact BioWare about not giving you the choice of a male romance sub plot.

Wait, what? You claim that lesbian are gay are the same thing, but then turn around and say that as a lesbian, I have no relation to gay males.

[head explodes]

 

[Doitpow]

I think it's more of a call back to the old Captain Kirk style of integrating with alien species.

I don't think Bioware are homophobes though, they just know that considering the controversy about the first one, that including the option to be an active homosexual male in that would lead to a total furore, such is the double standards of the knee-jerk crowd in the mainstream media.

Also, I could imagine a situation where they might even face legal action by backwards parents, concerned that their child is playing 'This sick filth' as they would most probably call it.

I think they're just erring on the side of caution, they don't want any more bad rep for the series.

This is where game producers don't realise their own power. If a player's parents complained about homosexuality in a game, one rated M no less, the child, (young adult hopefull) will instantly side with the game. The relate to it more, they recognise that the game comes from a different era, and they will also realise that the arguments that their parents make are wrong or simply based around fear. Video games, like movies before them, have great power as a progressive medium, if they don't fall into the trap of simply perpetuating ridiculous stereotypes.

 

[Doitpow]

I've been lurking on this thread for a while now and it seems to me that no one pointed out that being a lesbian and being gay are THE SAME THING. Someone might have, quote if necessary. You treat it like a symbol.

As the original poster is a gay girl gamer, why does she care? maybe to champion some group that she apparently has no relation to, like Major Kyle and the Biotics.

If you're hoping that a company is a benevolent deity that looks upon its audience and caters to every outcry of unhappiness that arises - Why do you think that?
First of all, they care about profits, Second of all, do you really think the developers want to rinse and repeat things. Games are always about trying out different ways to present gameplay.

You can always contact BioWare about not giving you the choice of a male romance sub plot.

Wait, what? You claim that lesbian are gay are the same thing, but then turn around and say that as a lesbian, I have no relation to gay males.

[head explodes]

Yeah not to sure what your driving at here man.

 

[RyVal]

I guess I'll have to repeat for the 100th time... If the people who wrote the script didn't want a homosexual character in their story, then tough cookies. Want a storyline with a gay character so badly? Write one yourself...

Now, take this post, and replace the words "homosexual" and "gay" with any other minority.

Not trying to be rude to the gay community in any way, but ever since the push to make homosexuals more acceptable by putting gay characters in tv shows and movies... They just feel... Out of place. Some shows and stories that I have seen, didn't even need a reason to expose the sexuality of a certain character, but since they did so anyway, that character felt out of place with the rest of the story just because the writers didn't want to be called homophobes..

How is sexuality "out of place"? It's just - you know - there. If it was set in a period where homosexuality was immensely taboo, I'd argue that it would be "out of place" if it was tolerated, but would not be out of place for existing.

I'm not homophobic.. I have gay and lesbian friends whom' I hang out with almost on a daily basis.

Too easy to make a joke out of this.

Hmm... For whatever reason, the site decided to just display the end part where you said it was easy to make a joke out of the daily basis quip.

The beginning part where I said write something yourself, is not being homophobic in anyway. It was a suggestion that, instead of forcing others to sprinkle their stories with minorities, you can try your own hand in creating a script, and make some money out of it. Everyone is constantly babbling at others for not having this or that in their movies or games, but I don't see many people going into the field themselves to try their hand at creating something the way they want to.

Again, where did I call you homophobic? So far as I can recall, the only person I have ever called homophobic in this thread is EE.

The "Too easy to make a joke out of this" was just that - a joke. If I am calling someone homophobic, I will use the word homophobic. I am getting rather tired of people accusing me of calling everyone homophobic with no justification.

Like for example... You don't see many movies shot in the first person where the camera "is" the main character like how in fps games the camera is the player. I myself am writing a script for a movie based around those lines.

Sure the first person movie has nothing to do with sexuality in movies/games, but it is rarely done and instead of complaining about it, I'm doing it myself.

It seems rather demanding to ask for someone to establish their own games studio, hire their own staff and collect enough assets simply for the sake of creating a single game with homosexual characters. Mass Effect 2 is supposed to be a mature drama; why is it so much to ask for them to address an issue as modern as this?

It's pretty obvious that you don't have any experience in the film production world... In the storyline of a movie, things are revealed for a reason, and in most cases, has a reason for existing in the movie to further the plot of the film.

We are not talking about films. We are talking about video games.

Most characters in video games are just thrown in, with little development whatsoever. They are not Shakespearian constructs. They are not Milton-esque marvels of depth. They are just set dressing. They are cookie-cutter background dressing written on the back of a napkin.

Films that have something sprinkled into the movie for the sake of pleasing the masses, don't work...

Lesbianism was sprinkled into Mass Effect for the sake of appeasing the masses.

For instance, Pyramid head in Silent Hill.. Why was he there? It was a fan service, and that was it... His whole purpose in the film was to make it more appealing to Silent Hill fans, but in reality he did nothing for the story of the film.

Yet, outside purists, his presence in the film remains its sole redeeming feature. I do not think that an elitist inner circle of faux-intellectuals can arbitrarily decide whether something elevates the film or not.

They do the same thing with homosexuals... They put them in the film, but it's only because most of the time they don't want to be called homophobic.. Now if they stopped sprinkling them in films for that reason and gave homosexuals a purpose in the story. It would work better for the story itself, I think that's the part that you may have overlooked when I was trying to say that the first time.

I would rather have stock gay characters thrown in just for the sake of being there than having no gay characters whatsoever. A 'cheap' representation is still preferable to absolutely no representation at all.

Every piece of information that is revealed in a story, needs a reason for being in the story... Jann in Valkyria chronicles was an openly gay character, and there was a reason why we are told this, his love for Largo affected his actions in the show and thus explains why he did some of the things he does. Infact they do a good job at making the audience feel sorry for him because Largo is a straight character and thus they could never be. Jann would not have worked as a straight character in this situation because then he would be a useless character that no one would really give a damn about, but the fact that the writers gave his sexuality a purpose to his story, made him a fine example of how it should have been done.

Sexuality does not need a purpose.

In fact, this is something I hate about films. They seem unable to just incorporate gay characters. Instead, they feel that they must have some melodramatic sop about the "trials faced by a homosexual", or they must give them a conservative family who hates them for their sexuality, or they need to have their sexuality be controversial. This is not what I want. I just want homosexual characters, who are simply characters in their own right - acting the same as any other person.

Telling us that a character is gay with no reason besides telling us that they're gay, does not help the storyline at all, because then it doesn't matter. We feel no extra connection with the character for being told that, but if they gave that character a purpose, or perhaps having their sexuality affect their decisions in the story, we can connect with that character, and thus it would actually help the gay/bi/lesbian cause a LOT more.

Not really.

The melodramatic interpretation of the life of a homosexual does not help relations at all. What LGBT people want is to be treated as a normal person, not a special case. Average, normal people doing average, normal things. Their sexuality is just a part of their background, along with "Black hair" or "Sports enthusiast" or "Born in Memphis". Gays, lesbians and bisexuals should not be defined purely by their sexuality - that, if anything, is what truly cheapens their characters.

I'm not saying that homosexuals should not be in films, I'm saying they should not be in films for the same reason that Pyramid Head was in Silent Hill... Give them purpose, perhaps have their sexuality be a turning point in the story itself? There are many things that could be done with this that simply aren't, and because they aren't, it falls flat.

See above.

I'm not against gay characters in games/stories like you're trying so hard to make me out to be. I'm against bad story telling due to the fact that developers, writers, and directors are taking the simple route by just throwing in these elements so randomly. I feel the same exact way every time something is thrown in to appeal the masses, be it Pyramid Head, Captain Barbossa (sp?), or even some of the characters in the Resident Evil movies, it's just bad story telling.

I am inclined to disagree with you. Not only do I feel that underdeveloped characters are better than no characters, but I also disagree that a character's sexuality has to be essential to their personality.

I've read a few of your posts already, and it seems that you're going through and picking apart peoples comments to make them sound like the bad guy... I would suggest not doing this because it seems very troll-like. If you're going to pick apart peoples comments, atleast explain why you're picking them apart, or ask questions as to why they feel that way.

You could have easily asked me to explain myself better, but instead you pushed to make me sound like an ass... Which in reality, if I were against your cause, you wouldn't be helping at all in terms of persuading my change in thought...

Part of understanding something is to sit down and discuss both sides of the story, all you're doing is picking out key parts of the story, and making whoever told it sound like a douche when in reality it might not have been intentional, but the fact that you're trying to make it sound intentional is like I said before, very troll-like..

Sure there are a few people on here that deserve such treatment, but I myself am not, and I could see a few others that you replied too aren't either... Now I gave you the benefit of the doubt by posting this long explanation for why I said the things I've said, but if you ever decide to take anything I say out of context the way you did ever again, that report button is just a click away...

This seems to be a major faux pas in these forums.

I "pick apart" posts because it is pragmatic. Quoting an entire, long post just wastes time and space. I select paragraphs that represent the main idea of what the poster is trying to say, and I address that sentiment. Otherwise, I would have to just repeat the same argument to the comments that were reiterating the same belief, or I would be creating quotes longer than my actual posts.

I am not trying to misrepresent your argument; I am merely being succinct.

 

[Apathetic_cynicism]

I see nothing wrong with it. Its an "optional" part of the story. But my case, who wants to see a gay male Shepard get it on with Jacob, Garrus, or even Thane? It also wouldn't even make much sense.

 

[RyVal]

In our race same sex couples cannot produce a child together.

In the Asari race they are able to produce a child with any sex. Its not about physical contact, its about a mental connection. That right there proves that the Asari cannot be gay.

Bioware isn't homophobic, just look at dragon age. But just because the Asari have female qualities doesn't make them a female in our standards.

They just sound female, use female pronouns, look female, have a female body, etc. It is so utterly transparent as to be ridicilous. You can paint an elephant blue and call it a whale, but it is still an elephant.

 

[RyVal]

I see nothing wrong with it. Its an "optional" part of the story. But my case, who wants to see a gay male Shepard get it on with Jacob, Garrus, or even Thane?

Homosexuals, I would imagine.

It also wouldn't even make much sense.

The whole point of role-playing games is that there is no "canon" - well, aside from official canon. You make your own choices. You do not have them made for you.

 

[Grey_Focks]

TBH sex in Mass Effect (and videogames in general) is kind of just a selling gimmick, so it doesn't matter too much. I fucked Miranda, Jack, AND Tali, the only one of which I actually made a point to fuck being Tali, just for the sheer weirdness factor, but the fact that I was able to nail Jack and Miranda without even trying says something about the design of how the relationships work (Jack is female BTW for those who haven't played the game.)

Ok, so now, rewinding back to my first point, sex is a selling point, and judging by the amount of times I hear "******" as a derogatory on xbox live, the main demographic is strait males, here it's catering more to strait males who jerk it to videogames, so pretty much, horn dogs who don't know how to interact with real women. So you have to offer strait sex obviously to sell and it to those who want a game with porn attatched, but to hook those who JUST want to buy the game for the sex, lesbian sex is pretty much a definite sale.

Now, to fit these two together, your main demographic here is strait males who may or may not be homophobic. Getting Jack and Miranda to jump on Shephard's man-muscle pretty much just amounted to being nice to them. So hypothetically if you could do other guys, it would probably work about the same way. Assuming the player doesn't intentionally act like a total dick to everyone, the situation would arise where friendly conversation with Thane would turn into homoerotic sexual advances, which would be a bit offsetting if you weren't gay and/or trying to bone them.

Also, can you romance all of the female options as female Shephard, or just Jack? Because Jack makes it known that she exercises sex liberally and doesn't really care about gender. None of the male characters make any indications to being gay, so it might just be for consistency's sake.

You've got it. I honestly find having "relationships" in these games as rather pointless. They really add nothing to the game except fan service, and it's not like they add any character depth either. I really only had a "relationship" with Tali just so I could see what she looked like. Seriously though, these romances serve no purpose in the game, and the fact that so many people get their knickers in a twist over not being able to bang a certain character is just depressing. Maybe you CAN have a gay male character, but none of your squadmates are gay? The solution being just don't bang any of them and reject any advances by female characters.

Seriously though, I'm a little reminded of a certain blogger who tried to boycott Avatar because there were no gay characters depicted in it. Just because you don't see two female characters or two male characters getting down doesn't mean they aren't gay, maybe it just means they don't want you to watch them.

 

[Mother Yeti]

Mother Yeti, were you complaining about the lack of the option to be gay in ME1? Because like EspirituExterminatus they can't just make him suddenly change, that just doesn't make sense unless Cerberus messed up. Not saying that being gay is wrong, he just isn't.

I was talking about both games, because both share the same issue of only allowing female Shep to be non-hetero.

As for BUT SHEPARD IS STRAIGHT OH GOD IT CANNOT BE CHANGED - this is getting off point, but it's not like people are exclusively gay or exclusively straight. Why couldn't they just add a male romance option and toss in a line where ManShep says he's never felt this way about another guy before, or something like that? It's not an intractable problem.

And as was said before, they HAD to make being a lesbian an option due to the fact that the Asari are a monogender race (Not sure if that is the correct wording). I'm 99% sure they didn't go into laying out the game's story, races, etc. By saying "LOL I HATE GAYS, BUT LESBIANS RULE. YEAH THEY ARE HOT WE SHULD MAKE LESBIAN RACE OR SOMETHING. WIN." I'm sure excluding gays were not their intentions, but a directional oversight.

Bioware didn't have to make the Asari look like hot women. I'm not seeing the connection between "they are monogendered" and "there HAS to be a lesbian option."

But if they did intentionally leave out the option of being a male homosexual, I'm sure they had their reasons. I mean we see Lesbians on T.V. kissing and whatnot on shows, and that is accepted. Now obviously this is a problem with American/Canadian Culture (not ignoring the fact that homosexuals are treated A LOT WORSE in many countries), but this is not even heard of with males. Bringing up the Fox controversy again, they call it a rape simulator for showing a few seconds of female ass, imagine the public outcry for male on male (Yes there is a flaw in my argument, because this happened after ME1 was released, but still...).

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but

(1) The Fox News outcry was started by a dude who had never even seen the game. There could have been have been a scene where Ashley takes a dump on Tali's chest and the guy's reaction would have been exactly the same.

(2) Dragon Age, a game that was full of sex in all colors of the rainbow, sparked about as much controversy as a peanut butter sandwich, despite the Zevran scene making the rounds on various news blogs.

(3) Ding ding ding, our society favors lesbians (but only conventionally hot, femme lesbians) over gay men! That is almost certainly one of the reasons Bioware chose not to make GayShep an option.

I'm sure there are more anti-gay gamers than there are gay gamers, and that's no surprise. Online all you hear is the use of the word "Gay" or the slang word for gay, which I'm excluding from this post,in ways that are completely wrong and are obviously bashing the gay culture. It's like saying the N word if you want to bring up the whole race issue.

Even assuming that homophobia is rampant in the gaming community, why should Bioware cater to that bigotry? It's not like their games won't still sell like popsicles in hell.

There's more to it than just throwing in a gay character, I mean people think it's wrong to throw in a black guy just to show they aren't racist, which is racism in itself, so why try to throw in a gay character? You can argue all you want, but you can't have a perfect game that suits everyone, most companies will shoot for what makes people the happiest, and as I've stated above, there are a lot more in the anti-homosexual boat than there are in the pro-sexual boat, even if you don't want to believe it, it's true.

You're basically asking why I would want a token gay character. I don't. I've said that about a dozen times.

And I don't give two shits if more people are homophobic than otherwise (and I don't believe that's true). That doesn't make them right.