Sexuality in Mass Effect

[RyVal]

I do not hate gay people at all. As long as they do not force it in my face all day.

So as long as homosexuals do not try and force you to tolerate them - not even accept, just tolerate - you are fine with them. The moment they, y'know, try and ask for the same consideration as a majority of the population, they cross the line. Right.

Are you being slow on purpose, or are you just so full of political correctness that you can't disagree with someone homosexual? What he's saying is that he doesn't like it when they have to open up a conversation with "I'M GAY!" or something similar to that.

He preceeded this comment with the line "Your whole "oh you do not tolerate us 100% so you are a homophobic bigot" stupidity."

So in return, I must ask - just how much of your defense of his comment is actual ignorance, and how much of it is selective bias?

Because as we all know, if you share someones opinion, it's all due to bias and ignorance.

Aaaaaaand you nicely avert having to answer the question.

 

[Jiggabyte]

I apologise that I'm not going to check for ninjas because I'm tired from an all-nighter on ME2, but isn't there a possibility that the characters simply aren't gay? Liara has no concept of gender and Ashley seems the sort to swing both ways, doesn't mean Kaiden does (although I personally never checked.) Half the crew aren't romanceable in the first game, most of whom are male.
I think they've opened up more in the second game. There's likely one that fits the bill.

 

[FrndlyMisanthrpe]

I thought you could play as a gay male Shepard. Curious. I guess gay sex would spark more controversy that lesbian "sex"? I don't know.

Actually, you probably have a point.
The controversy was just the fact that there was sex in the game, and not that there was lesbian sex.
But if it was gay sex, people would be going crazy.
But as far as I know, no one made a stink about the gay sex in Dragon Age.
I think what OP was trying to get at here is that it's odd that one half of the gay community was represented, rather than the whole thing.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

What he's saying is that he doesn't like it when they have to open up a conversation with "I'M GAY!" or something similar to that.

Please tell me you have not heard some one use that as an opening line

 

[Riobux]

I think it's a case of general homophobia in the video-game industry, or at least Bioware. While, yes, in Dragon Age you can have a gay male, the only man who would have sex with you is an overly flirtatious idiot who is full of himself. It's then painted worse as it's revealed that he's bisexual. I don't know why, but I just felt irritated how the bisexual character acted almost like a whore.

Mass Effect though, I think it's a summery of "lesbians are hawt, gay men are nawt".

 

[atalanta]

The irony of some lonely manchild with his faux-jaded attitude, his Warhammer screenname, and his affected misanthropy, telling me that I'm pretending to be special and unique, is so delicious that I want to spread it on toast and eat it.

And dude, the attitude of "I don't mind gay people as long as they're not all in my face about it" is textbook homophobia. You can't argue otherwise. It's like claiming that "I'm fine with black people as long as they don't talk black" isn't racist. Just admit it and accept it.

Oh nice. So I went from some random kid to a lonely man child who is jaded and hates everything. Wow. You are honestly doing nothing to help your cause. "LOL U HAZ WARHMMR SCREEN NAME! UR POINT IZ NVLAID!" could you be any more pathetic?
I also just love how you skip over me putting you in your place by shooting down your every argument. Guess your kind cannot accept defeat huh so you just pretend it never happened.
But it is okay. I have already classified you as a whiney little attention whoring ***** who labels anyone a homophobe because you have zero understanding of what the words means.
But thank you. I am now implementing my brand new "Mother whogivesafucker" law of internet arguing.
Yes, I am going to stop for a second so you can get your jollies over having something named after you.


Right, done now? Good.
Which states that arguing with a homosexual online is pointless as your malformed brains [http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html] are incapable of comprehending logic.
Fortunately for you, society and the mods classify your kind as the victims so coddle you even when you are clearing wrong.

Oh and trying to claim that I am "against equality" simply because I do not care about people sex lives just further erodes your argument. As RelexCryo pointed out. There are a lot of sexual perversions out there. Why should homosexuality be put into every game when other deviant behaviours are not? Approx 1/10 of the population are homosexual right? Well 1/5 people have sexual thoughts about children. So hey, why not put more paedophiles into games. It makes even more sense than gays.

Seriously, do us and yourself a favour. Stop posting until you can actually form a proper argument that does not resort to glossing over points where you got your ass kicked and ignorant labelling because people do not agree with you. You just come across as pathetic.

Oh and please do me a favour. Remove me from your friend list. I do not even know why you added me seeing as how I spent the last hour or so verbally putting you in your place. But I do not want my good name associated with some one like you.

Homophobia
A irrational fear or hatred of homosexuals. - Please learn the meaning of a term before you throw it around.

"I'm fine with black people as long as they don't talk black"

So what? You assume all black people "talk black"? What is "talking black"? Do you think all black people use ghetto slang? Could you be any more racist?

I AM NOT PUSHING AN AGENDA. I AM NOT TRYING TO FORCE YOU TO LOVE GAY PEOPLE OR EVEN AGREE WITH ME.

Yes, you are. The second you start throwing around words like homophobe or claiming people are against equality because they disagree with you then you prove you are trying to force people to accept your agenda.

Edit: And yes, I do realise I am putting you down far harsher than is needed. It is clear to everyone you have no clue so me being mean is just a step too far. However me like a lot of people absolutely hate it when morons call people homophobes. It is a offensive label and is never used correctly.

Edit again:

The issue of gay men aside, I do think they went a bit far with the female side of things. Garrus? Thane? WTF? The Asari at least have some resemblance to human females, but reptile boy and bark face? No thanks.

Play ME2, go to Illium? and listen to the Bachelor convos. It reveals something very interesting about the Asari.

[EspirituExterminatus:] You're really not making yourself out in a flattering light.

Yeah, I don't care. I know perfectly well that on this site arguing with a homosexual is pretty much a ban worthy offence in itself. So my putting her in her place will get me in trouble while her insulting me and labelling me as a homophobe, one of the few terms I do find offensive, will be glossed over by the mods. One of the many double standards here. So since I am in trouble anyway I may as well make it worth while.
Anyone with a brain can see the point I am making anyway.

1. Okay, I know sometimes words are difficult to understand, but homophobia doesn't currently literally mean an irrational fear of us mean and nasty queers; it also applies to hatred of homosexuals. Don't believe me? The OED backs me up on this one. Of course, I'm also betting you know this perfectly well and have been throwing around definitions to try to muddy the point, but that's neither here nor there.

Homophobia:
Fear or hatred of homosexuals and homosexuality.
-The Oxford English Dictionary. Please learn the meaning of a term before you throw it around.

2. The reason people haven't been seriously engaging with you is because you compare homosexuality (sex between consenting adults) to pedophilia (sex with children, seriously, I'm hoping you can see the difference here) and then call our brains malformed and tell us to keep it to ourselves (how, exactly? No lezzies unless they're hot, gay dudes GTFO?). When I'm talking and someone shows up who thinks I'm somehow less human than my straighter contemporaries because I like kissing girls and would kind of dig seeing girls like me in video games, surprise surprise, I don't usually engage.

3. All right, I'll bite. If saying gay people should know their place and stop shoving their icky sexual perversions in your face is totally not at all homophobia, what is? (Bear in mind, I'm asking about the actual definition of homophobia, not the incomplete one you've been flogging.)

 

[Benjeezy]

What goes into a game is up to the developer i guess.

It might be interesting to see how the game might change if you COULD be gay...especially if your lover ended up kicking the bucket?

Damn, this is starting to sound kinda deep.

 

[snow]

I guess I'll have to repeat for the 100th time... If the people who wrote the script didn't want a homosexual character in their story, then tough cookies. Want a storyline with a gay character so badly? Write one yourself...

Now, take this post, and replace the words "homosexual" and "gay" with any other minority.

Not trying to be rude to the gay community in any way, but ever since the push to make homosexuals more acceptable by putting gay characters in tv shows and movies... They just feel... Out of place. Some shows and stories that I have seen, didn't even need a reason to expose the sexuality of a certain character, but since they did so anyway, that character felt out of place with the rest of the story just because the writers didn't want to be called homophobes..

How is sexuality "out of place"? It's just - you know - there. If it was set in a period where homosexuality was immensely taboo, I'd argue that it would be "out of place" if it was tolerated, but would not be out of place for existing.

I'm not homophobic.. I have gay and lesbian friends whom' I hang out with almost on a daily basis.

Too easy to make a joke out of this.

Yah I knew some one would say something about that

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

It has been a long while that Bioware is around... so maybe they did not try what your reinvindicating, for profitable reasons?

 

[Souplex]

Sort of on topic I have yet to play Mass Effect 2, but when I do I can assure you all that Shepard is going to remain faithful to Ashley Williams. Partly because I don't want my Shepard to be the kind of asshole who would be unfaithful to someone who loves him especially after everything that's happened, and partly because I really don't want some kind of soap opera ish 'why did you betray me' kind of thing happening for the third.

Ashley breaks it off with you when you meet her again. You were legally dead for two years. In that time she probably found someone else. Sorry skipper.
OT: they could at least have the decency to let male characters schtupp grunt. Krogans have a backup of every single organ, heh...

 

[Benjeezy]

There is a lot of anger in this thread... >.<

 

[cieply]

I must say I loved the fact that shepard could not be gay, thanks to this I could have a straight bromance never worrying about if the character is hitting up on me. Thanks god!!!!!

After zevran started hitting up on me I never took him on the mission ever again.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Can't say I have much to add to this conversation other than it does seem an interesting question. I would suppose the point made about Shephard having more of a distinct pre-written personality than a DA character is the best response. It does still seem odd to me that the lesbian option exists but not the gay male option.

As for DA, however, is it true that Zevran is the only option for pursuing a gay male relationship (or, more fully, gay male sex)? I've never.. checked out the options, but I'm pretty sure you can go to the Pearl as a male character and request male company. Certainly it's not a relationship, but if you wanted to define your character as solely sexually interested in other men, and not just interested in the "goes both ways Elf," you do have this option I believe. Or, of course, you could just not opt to have sex with anyone at all since that's what most people, gay/straight/otherwise, would do if they didn't find themselves attracted to any of their compatriots.

 

[Benjeezy]

I think it's more of a call back to the old Captain Kirk style of integrating with alien species.

Big Pimpin', Intergalactic Style?

 

[RyVal]

Homophobia:
Fear or hatred of homosexuals and homosexuality.
-The Oxford English Dictionary. Please learn the meaning of a term before you throw it around.

Homophobia
A irrational fear or hatred of homosexuals. - Please learn the meaning of a term before you throw it around.

So obviously you can not read as that is already what I said. I guess the part of the brain that deciphers text is underdeveloped in you as well.

And you are quite obviously blind. That is the only way I can imagine you would have missed the "irrational" deliberately (and self-servingly) slotted in to your definition, compared to his. Either that, or even more selective bias.

2. The reason people haven't been seriously engaging with you is because you compare homosexuality (sex between consenting adults) to pedophilia (sex with children, seriously, I'm hoping you can see the difference here) and then call our brains malformed and tell us to keep it to ourselves (how, exactly? No lezzies unless they're hot, gay dudes GTFO?). When I'm talking and someone shows up who thinks I'm somehow less human than my straighter contemporaries because I like kissing girls and would kind of dig seeing girls like me in video games, surprise surprise, I don't usually engage.

Obviously you also can not understand what a "analogy" is. She was stating that since they are apparently a large enough portion of society that they should be included. Yet paedophilla is far more common so yes, having a character who is that way inclined would be more realistic.

So if someone compared heterosexuality to a plague, you'd be fine with it. After all, it is just an analogy.

However if I were to truly compare homosexuality to something then I would compare it to incest.
Both are "deviant" and "unnatural" behaviours between two consenting adults yet one we are expected to support while the other is some how morally wrong. Explain that one. And no, no bullshitting about genetic defects. That does not happen unless the inbreeding has gone on for at least a couple generations.

Wrong.

Genetic defects from incestual in-breeding can - and do - arise as earlier as the first generation.

And see, I made it clear that I do not think of gays as less human due to their choice. I think of them as assholes when they feel the need to involve me in their life.

Did they drag you into this thread?
Did they force into this conversation?
Did they manipulate your hands into typing on the keyboard?

No. You came on to this thread, on your own initiative. And it seems the only reason you did was to spew some more intolerant pap.

Involving you "in their life" by what - asking that the option be available for gay relationships in a video game? An option which, by definition, is totally optional and does not affect you in the slightest? Your rhetoric is the most cliche intolerance I've ever seen.

And what of the double standards? You start throwing the toys out of the pram when the icky gays are 'forcing' you into having homosexual characters in video games, but you do not complain when a majority of video games consist purely of heterosexual characters.

Exactly the same as not wanting to deal with religious fanatics is not being intolerant of their religion. I can accept christians and mormons as long as they do not try to preach to me.

And what does any of this have to do with having the option of gay characters in video games?

Would you demolish churches and synagogues because they were 'forcing' you to become involved in their religion just by being there? If you feel that you are apparantly being forced to conform to homosexuality by its very presence, then I think you may have a few sexuality issues of your own.

When anyone with a fully developed brain would obviously understand that all I am saying is is that it is over and most people do not want to hear about it any more. We do not care.

And again, I'd repeat that including optional gay characters in video games does not affect you in the slightest.

How would you feel if I felt the need to say "Hi. I am X and I like pussy! And you will respect me for my choice!" You would no doubt tell me to fuck off just out of spite for my arrogance.

Again, try to name a few mainstream video games that feature any homosexual characters. Do the same for mainstream films.

Now, to compare, list all the mainstream video games and films that have featured solely heterosexual characters. What was this you were saying about gay characters apparantly being in your face?

So no. I am not homophobic. As with your definition which was exactly the same as mine,

Aside from, again, the inclusion of "irrational" in your definition - as if hatred of homosexuality could ever be rational.

I do not fear nor hate them. I simply do not want to know. As that is just indifference, not fear nor hatred then obviously I am right.

And yet you claim they have malformed brains and compare them to paedophiles.

Definitely not a homophobe.

Also I do not tell people about my tentacle fetishes, people do not want to hear about furries or foot lovers or anything. Why should being gay be any different? I keep my fetishes to myself, you keep yours to yourself. There is no reason at all for anyone to know about each others perversions.

And you then proceed to claim that homosexuality is a "sexual fetish" and a "perversion".

Definitely not a homophobe.

They take something out of context which if they had of posted the full thing would be clear it was a response jab to some one labelling me as a homophobe. They seem to be the one with selective vision.
But yeah, its not worth arguing over man. In these situations the moderators always take the side of the minorities. I fully expect a suspension/ban while the idiot who called me a homophobe will not get the slightest punishment at all.

Clearly, the white middle-class straight guy is the new minority.

So as long as homosexuals do not try and force you to tolerate them - not even accept, just tolerate - you are fine with them.

What is that even meant to mean? Accept them. I "accept" them the way I do every one else by telling them I do not care what they do as long as they stay the hell away from me.[/quote]
That is the total opposite of acceptance.

I must say I loved the fact that shepard could not be gay, thanks to this I could have a straight bromance never worrying about if the character is hitting up on me. Thanks god!!!!!

After zevran started hitting up on me I never took him on the mission ever again.

A "straight bromance"? Do you often tell your real-life same-sex friends that you are attracted to them?

Talk about a transparent closet.

 

[Logan Westbrook]

Temporarily locked while I look this thread over.

EDIT: Ok, bad people dealt with, thread reopened.

 

[high_castle]

I agree with the OP. I think it's sad that in a game that touts itself as giving the player the freedom of choice in just about everything else, they basically make it so anyone RPing a gay mShep has to go celibate. Even more interesting is that apparently dialogue had been recorded for an mShep/Thane romance, but was cut at what looks to be the last moment. Considering BioWare's record with both Dragon Age and Jade Empire, this surprises me. The cynic in me wonders if executives kept it out because they wanted the sequel to have mass appeal and were afraid that a gay option would scare some players away. But I just don't get it. Having the option there doesn't hurt anyone. You don't HAVE to romance anyone. It's definitely a curious question, and I wish the devs would give some feedback on why they made this particular choice.

EDIT:

Can't say I have much to add to this conversation other than it does seem an interesting question. I would suppose the point made about Shephard having more of a distinct pre-written personality than a DA character is the best response. It does still seem odd to me that the lesbian option exists but not the gay male option.

As for DA, however, is it true that Zevran is the only option for pursuing a gay male relationship (or, more fully, gay male sex)? I've never.. checked out the options, but I'm pretty sure you can go to the Pearl as a male character and request male company. Certainly it's not a relationship, but if you wanted to define your character as solely sexually interested in other men, and not just interested in the "goes both ways Elf," you do have this option I believe. Or, of course, you could just not opt to have sex with anyone at all since that's what most people, gay/straight/otherwise, would do if they didn't find themselves attracted to any of their compatriots.

In DA, you have several options. A human noble can romance either Iona or Dairren in the beginning regardless of gender. And yes, there are the Pearl "companions". There's also a prison guard in Fort Drakon who swings that way (but you just use him to get out, so it's not really a romance). So DA definitely has a wide range of characters for every orientation. And Zevran's bisexual, not gay.