Sexy fantasy armor...

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Women tribal warriors in Americas, Africa, Gauls, Celts and others also fought topless or naked and they were not performers as well. I use the gladiators as an example because I see those represented in more games, however, more often women are left out entirely as well.

And what, exactly, does tribal warriors going topless have to do with the types of armor that are usually seen in fantasy works? There's a big damn difference between showing some tribe where no one wears shirts and showing a culture inspired by medieval Europe where men wear actual armor and women wear some kind of skintight metal lingerie into battle. Internal consistency is important. If your work has established that it works under the majority of real world physics and that sharp objects still hurt skin, putting metal between sharp objects and skin in a practical way is fucking important to your work and shouldn't take a back seat to showing off some woman's cleavage.

Maybe you should pull a bit back on thinking everyone who wants female characters to be dressed more practically is just slut shaming and remember we're talking about situations where practicality is more important than sexuality.

I was under the impression Romans, Greeks, Celts and Gauls were a part of medieval Europe. How is practical to ignore how many actually fought in medieval Europe? Of course it wouldn't be slut shaming if people were okay with both full armor AND topless warriors due to historical accuracy. It IS slut shaming when they say that it is "eye popping" "stripperific" or comparing looking at the female body to looking at porn.

 

[mecegirl]

I am not throwing the term burka around out of context, when my friend and coworker was forced to wear one or be killed and risked her life and the lives of those she cared about to free herself from such things and would still be killed today if she attempted to return to visit her own family I do believe I use the term quite accurately. What I find ridiculous and insensitive is to downplay the effect on the lives of the women who have endured and continue to endure such things. No woman should be shamed into hiding her body. There is nothing shameful about a womans body.

Maybe it is a mater of perspective, my pov as a female native american I see too often women are forced to conform to others beliefs public and private shaming of women, men trying to tell their girlfriends what they should wear and see people actually being uncomfortable with women's skin even in games? It is absurd. Maybe they need exposed to MORE nudity to desensitize them to the fact that naked isn't shameful.

When discussing traditional medieval settings, how could they also have Romans, Greeks, Celts and Gauls without having nudity being standard when in reality it was? I was under the impression that was considered Europe as well.

Do you think your friend appreciates you using them as a way to "win" an argument on the internet? That's what I'm talking about. Those issues are very important so bringing it up so causally is offensive. You are downplaying it by bringing it up in this discussion when no one is trying to cover up fantasy women in order to hide their bodies anyway. Stop putting words in peoples mouths. And stop arguing against a point no one made.

I am female. I am also Black. I understand what you mean. But this has nothing to do with female skin or shaming women. Or are you naive enough to think that the reason why that only women are under dressed in these settings is to show how "liberated" they are and not to cater to western male libidos? No one thinks that in a setting where wearing less armor is the norm that women should be covered up. Show me where anyone has said such a thing. But when all the dudes are in plate armor and the women are wearing metal shaped like lingerie, then yes, it is a obvious double standard. All cultures have their conventions and reasons for dressing the way that they do, so consistency is required. It's the reason why no one cares that Red Sonja is in a chain mail bikini.

 

[The Lunatic]

Because nobody has ever looked sexy while on a dangerous job, right? Sorry, James Bond, Jason Borne, Jack Bauer, Black Widow, half the members of the X-Men and the entirety of the characters of various comic book universes, not to mention any Hollywood actor/actress starring in an action movie: You're not allowed to look sexy while on the job because Lunatic here says it's creepy.

What's that, Emma? Oh, I see. Lunatic, Emma Frost [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2c/Emma_Frost_in_current_costume.jpg] doesn't like your arbitrary rules about creepyness and is going to keep freezing people to death (which she does staggeringly often) with her mutant magic while wearing her sexy pajamas. Feel free to keep calling people creepy, but I don't think her stance will budge. I don't think mine will either.

Are you actually using comic books as a justification for women being sexualised in media?

... Really?

Like, how am I even supposed to respond to that? You have seen comics books, right?


Okay, whatever.

James Bond? Jason Borne? These people are just buff heroes, they're not sexualised, they're just in shape.

I guess being athletic is sexualisation now. Gee, who knew.


But, really, what gets me the most is Jack Bauer.

He's like 50 and always looks constipated whilst wearing a dark shirt and jeans.

But, really, though, what really gets me is. None of the examples you have given have anything to do with the genre in question. None of these people are gearing up for medieval warfare with swords, axes, maces, bows and whatever the hell else. None of these people live in literal the freezing hell of skyrim. Thus any comparison is incredibly faulty and has nothing to even remotely do with the situation.

So, yes, it's creepy. And if you're willing to continue to be creepy, then, I guess, good luck with your end goals there.

 

[CloudAtlas]

I was under the impression Romans, Greeks, Celts and Gauls were a part of medieval Europe. How is practical to ignore how many actually fought in medieval Europe?

No, they were not. They belong to the classic era, not the middle age.

Also, 300 is not a historically accurate movie. Legionaires and Hoplites didn't fight naked either. And for that matter, neither did all the Celts or Gauls. And however liberal Greek or Roman societies might have been in general matters little for what's going on on the battlefield.

It IS slut shaming when they say that it is "eye popping" "stripperific" or comparing looking at the female body to looking at porn.

The parallel to porn is drawn because many game designers use an aesthetic that is very similar to what you usually get in porn. Cheap, lazy, blunt, lacking any art or finesse. It has nothing to do with slut shaming.

 

[Eddie the head]

Feel free to explain how that's creepy.

You're playing a game where you go around brutally murdering people with swords, clubs, axes, bows and magic.

And you want them to either look "sexy" whilst you're killing them, or for your character to look "sexy" whilst you're killing others.

That's pretty creepy, yo'.

Maybe he just want's them to look sexy. And the the killing thing has nothing to do with his motivations. And maybe you should stop assigning motivations to others.

Just because two things correlate doesn't mean they are related.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I am not throwing the term burka around out of context, when my friend and coworker was forced to wear one or be killed and risked her life and the lives of those she cared about to free herself from such things and would still be killed today if she attempted to return to visit her own family I do believe I use the term quite accurately. What I find ridiculous and insensitive is to downplay the effect on the lives of the women who have endured and continue to endure such things. No woman should be shamed into hiding her body. There is nothing shameful about a womans body.

Maybe it is a mater of perspective, my pov as a female native american I see too often women are forced to conform to others beliefs public and private shaming of women, men trying to tell their girlfriends what they should wear and see people actually being uncomfortable with women's skin even in games? It is absurd. Maybe they need exposed to MORE nudity to desensitize them to the fact that naked isn't shameful.

When discussing traditional medieval settings, how could they also have Romans, Greeks, Celts and Gauls without having nudity being standard when in reality it was? I was under the impression that was considered Europe as well.

Do you think your friend appreciates you using them as a way to "win" an argument on the internet? That's what I'm talking about. Those issues are very important so bringing it up so causally is offensive. You are downplaying it by bringing it up in this discussion when no one is trying to "cover up" fantasy women in order to hide their bodies anyway. Stop putting words in peoples mouths.

I am female. I am also Black. I understand what you mean. But this has nothing to do with female skin or shaming women. Or are you naive enough to think that the reason why that only women are under dressed in these settings is to show how "liberated" they are and not to cater to western male libidos? No one thinks that in a setting where wearing less armor is the norm that women should be covered up. Show me where anyone has said such a thing. But when all the dudes are in plate armor and the women are wearing metal shaped like lingerie then yes, it is a obvious double standard. All cultures have their conventions and reasons for dressing the way that they do, so consistency is required. Its the reason why no one cares that Red Sonja is in a chain mail bikini.

My friend would be the first to set fire to a burka, and I am not using it to win an argument on the internet. However, She uses the term far more than I do on the internet. Trying to force fictional women to " cover up" is the same as trying to force real women to " cover up". This has everything to do with shaming women. It is in all aspects of culture. Writing, television, movies, games, relationships, public, laws.. everything is saturated with it. The idea that a woman's body is " too sexual" just by seeing skin it part of the problem.

The more men are exposed to seeing the female body, the less sexual they will see it as. It is the hiding of women's bodies that is causing that reaction in the first place. Of course that isn't the reason they are making the female characters show skin, but by them doing so, and seeing more women show skin, they will become more desensitized to it, having it more accepted as normal and women will no longer be forced to hide themselves. This is just one of the steps we need to overcome the stigmas. We need overexposure as part of solving the problem long term.

It is like the first time you see the ocean, it shocks you, however when you see it every day, it just becomes normal. We actually need to do that to solve the problem with " slut shaming" and if it takes nude video game characters to help accomplish that so be it. Hopefully in time it will also lead to changing of the laws to allow for more nudity as society becomes more accustomed to it rather than shaming and hiding their own bodies.

 

[The Lunatic]

Maybe he just want's them to look sexy. And the the killing thing has nothing to do with his motivations. And maybe you should stop assigning motivations to others.

You know there's this thing called porn, right?

 

[CloudAtlas]

I like sexy fantasy armor. I also like women in sexy fantasy armor. I put sexy fantasy armor mods in my Skyrim to shake things up and make it less boring.

There is nothing wrong with the above three sentences.

Whether there is something wrong with you liking that or not is not the question.

The question is whether a world is better for being designed in such a way, in a way that satisfies your preferences. Skyrim might be "less boring" for you if many of its women wear ridiculous sexualized armors, but it certainly is less internally consistent for it. Because Skyrim very much tries to portay a "realistic" world, and incidentally an equal opportunity world too, and ridiculous sexualized armors, for only one gender at that, just have no place in such a world. It destroys immersion.

Trading off internal consistency for titillation might be worth it for you personally, but that's it. Don't suggest that it would be realistic (as you do in the following posts) or that Skyrim's world might be objectively better for it.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I was under the impression Romans, Greeks, Celts and Gauls were a part of medieval Europe. How is practical to ignore how many actually fought in medieval Europe?

No, they were not. They belong to the classic era, not the middle age.

Also, 300 is not a historically accurate movie. Legionaires and Hoplites didn't fight naked either. And however liberal Greek or Roman societies might have been in general matters little for what's going on on the battlefield.

It IS slut shaming when they say that it is "eye popping" "stripperific" or comparing looking at the female body to looking at porn.

The parallel to porn is drawn because many game designers use an aesthetic that is very similar to what you usually get in porn. Cheap, lazy, blunt, lacking any art or finesse. It has nothing to do with slut shaming.

I wasn't considering 300 as accurate, if you look at the link below the gladiator in my post with the picture, the topless female gladiator statue was accurate. When I am referring to " Medieval" I am referring to common themes in games such as " King Arthur and knights of the round table" and Merlin the wizard stories which much fantasy games are based on, during which time many Celts and Gauls fought topless and naked.

 

[Eddie the head]

Maybe he just want's them to look sexy. And the the killing thing has nothing to do with his motivations. And maybe you should stop assigning motivations to others.

You know there's this thing called porn, right?

Cool. Not sure what that has to do with anything. There is porn yeah. . . . . . So?

 

[mecegirl]

My friend would be the first to set fire to a burka, and I am not using it to win an argument on the internet. However, She uses the term far more than I do on the internet. Trying to force fictional women to " cover up" is the same as trying to force real women to " cover up". This has everything to do with shaming women. It is in all aspects of culture. Writing, television, movies, games, relationships, public, laws.. everything is saturated with it. The idea that a woman's body is " too sexual" just by seeing skin it part of the problem.

The more men are exposed to seeing the female body, the less sexual they will see it as. It is the hiding of women's bodies that is causing that reaction in the first place. Of course that isn't the reason they are making the female characters show skin, but by them doing so, and seeing more women show skin, they will become more desensitized to it, having it more accepted as normal and women will no longer be forced to hide themselves. This is just one of the steps we need to overcome the stigmas. We need overexposure as part of solving the problem long term.

It is like the first time you see the ocean, it shocks you, however when you see it every day, it just becomes normal. We actually need to do that to solve the problem with " slut shaming" and if it takes nude video game characters to help accomplish that so be it. Hopefully in time it will also lead to changing of the laws to allow for more nudity as society becomes more accustomed to it rather than shaming and hiding their own bodies.

It is an experience that your friend has had first hand, so she has the right to talk about it as much as she wants. You, on the other hand, do need to show some consideration.

And there is no issue with female skin being shown but with male skin not being shown. As it is now there is no shortage of female characters that show lots of skin. People in the west are a lot more tolerant of female nudity than male nudity. And you are, once again, making this into something that it is not. And I am fully convinced that you are arguing in bad faith now. You completely ignored context in favor of ranting about some made up concern. There is a time for everything. Just having everyone naked solves nothing and it sure as hell is shitty story telling. And shitty storytelling is the last thing we need. Clothes are for more than covering nudity. They offer protection. They are also outward signs of a cultural identity.

 

[Phasmal]

Ugh I can't believe we still have to talk about this.

Sexy armour by itself is neutral. Sexy armour when only put on women and not on men and the women being posed all sexxay all the time ignoring internal consistency in the game is stupid.

There is nothing wrong with sexy. There is something wrong with a game culture that demands all females be sexy but men can be whatever.
You wanna make a game that features male and female elves fighting in their underwear? Great. Sign me up.

But don't just do it to one gender and pretend you can't possibly see why anyone would have a problem with that.

Dammit just give me some more shirtless sexy boys and we'll call it even, kay?

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

My friend would be the first to set fire to a burka, and I am not using it to win an argument on the internet. However, She uses the term far more than I do on the internet. Trying to force fictional women to " cover up" is the same as trying to force real women to " cover up". This has everything to do with shaming women. It is in all aspects of culture. Writing, television, movies, games, relationships, public, laws.. everything is saturated with it. The idea that a woman's body is " too sexual" just by seeing skin it part of the problem.

The more men are exposed to seeing the female body, the less sexual they will see it as. It is the hiding of women's bodies that is causing that reaction in the first place. Of course that isn't the reason they are making the female characters show skin, but by them doing so, and seeing more women show skin, they will become more desensitized to it, having it more accepted as normal and women will no longer be forced to hide themselves. This is just one of the steps we need to overcome the stigmas. We need overexposure as part of solving the problem long term.

It is like the first time you see the ocean, it shocks you, however when you see it every day, it just becomes normal. We actually need to do that to solve the problem with " slut shaming" and if it takes nude video game characters to help accomplish that so be it. Hopefully in time it will also lead to changing of the laws to allow for more nudity as society becomes more accustomed to it rather than shaming and hiding their own bodies.

It is an experience that your fried has had first hand, so she has the right to talk about it as much as she wants. You, on the other hand, do need to show some consideration.

And there is no issue with female skin being shown but with male skin not being shown. As it is now there is no shortage of female characters that show lots of skin. People in the west are a lot more tolerant of female nudity than male nudity. And you are once again making this into something that it is not. And I am fully convinced that you are arguing in bad faith now. You completely ignored context in favor of ranting about some made up concern. There is a time for everything. Just having everyone naked solves nothing and it sure as hell is shitty story telling. And shitty storytelling is the last thing we need. Clothes are for more than covering nudity. They offer protection. They are also outward signs of a cultural identity.

I show plenty of consideration, probably more than I should. I do not need to show a burka consideration when I am defending my friend from being forced to wear one. Only those who are forced to wear one are allowed to speak out against being forced to conform to others beliefs? I disagree. Just as others do not need to be tied to a chair and forced to read the bible are allowed to defend me against such things. ANYONE can speak out against what they did to us. The more the better. The only way we stop being bullied into conforming to what others believe is for more to stand against these things until they are gone. If people in the west were more tolerant of female nudity they would not feel the need to cover both our breasts and our vagina's, on men they only cover their penis. They cover more of a woman's body than a mans. A man can wear only a loin cloth but when a woman does they throw out a nudity and age warning. How would nudity be shitty story telling? Those are completely separate issues. Nudity does not effect story telling, that seems silly to think that it would. There is far more to identity than clothing. If they need clothing that much to tell the story it wasn't a very good story to begin with.

 

[The Lunatic]

Yes, murdering people with swords, clubs, axes, bows and magic is absolutely fine and rational... but put on some sexy clothes and then, total pervert.

People seem to tie themselves is such bizarre logical knots over these naval gazing issues.

Well, I think getting sexual gratification from killing people would be creepy with or without the sexy clothing. The sexy clothing just adds another aspect to it.

 

[WindKnight]

is not thought of to be sexual, but it would be if it is a woman although MANY women warriors actually did fight topless.
http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/517/cache/roman-statue-may-depict-female-gladiator_51794_600x450.jpg

Gladiators are not warriors - their entertainers. Their basically pro-wrestlers who's form of combat tended to be a bit more lethal than allowed today. Its very easy to argue that having a topless female gladiator comes down to it being more appealing for the audience, than it being a practical fighting choice

 

[The Lunatic]

I was more going for the murder should be the moral issue really, not the clothes one wears when committing the murder, not really the sexual gratification aspect so much.

Eh, people playing homicidal murders in video games is nothing new. People have enjoyed watching people beating the crap out of each other for a very long time.


Getting sexual gratification from people doing it? Not so much.

What reason do you have to add sexual clothing to murdering people, other than to make it more sexual?

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

is not thought of to be sexual, but it would be if it is a woman although MANY women warriors actually did fight topless.
http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/517/cache/roman-statue-may-depict-female-gladiator_51794_600x450.jpg

Gladiators are not warriors - their entertainers. Their basically pro-wrestlers who's form of combat tended to be a bit more lethal than allowed today. Its very easy to argue that having a topless female gladiator comes down to it being more appealing for the audience, than it being a practical fighting choice

Of course gladiators were entertainers, the problem being of course is that they somehow feel the need to cover womens breasts when they show female gladiators, but they do not do the men.
Regardless of gladiators being entertainers, that does not discount the actual topless female warriors that were far from being entertainers.