Sexy "Power Armor", am I 'juvenile' for liking it? (a response to recent Kill La Kill concepts)

[DefunctTheory]

Kevlar is neither a solid plate or ring-mail but it is still armour.
You're adding restrictions to the definition based on your opinion but it's not what armour is.

I said solid plating. Kevlar comes in small plates that are sewn into a vest or other attire. I was specifically thinking of Kevlar when I said solid plating. Also Lamellar, upon which modern Kevlar was (partly) based.

I was also thinking of various military plating on tanks, ships, planes, and various locations in science fiction - including Mass Effect.

But that still remains less important than the fact that magical armor is different from powered armor.

... that's not sexy power armor! That's a mech-themed magical girl. The fact that the outfit has a mouth and is shown to be its own character means that this is a magical outfit of some sort. Also, as pointed out, armor kinda needs to have more coverage than that to be armor and not... well a magical outfit.

I am not sure what's the fuzz about using the word armor himesama, the wiktionary says that an armor is "A protective layer over a body, vehicle, or other object intended to deflect or diffuse damaging forces.", so if a bikini effectively deflects or diffuses damaging forces, ain't that an armor?

Mm, that definition is a bit more open ended. However, I still denote the difference in genre.

When I look at that outfit, I see Magical Girl with a mech theme, or at best Magical Armor.

I do not see Powered Armor.

Also, like, half the people in the thread said the same thing (well, they didn't specify magical girl). In fact, a lot of them said worse. I'm not sure why you both are arguing definitions with me rather than the other half-a-dozen people who've said very similar things.

Oh, boy. I knew someone would say this...

The plates in modern body armor are not Kevlar. They're made of ceramic - specifically, boron carbide.

Kevlar is used in flak jackets, in its fabric form, which are part of the entire modern battledress and are usually built into the plate carrier (Though they are removable).

Kevlar can also be found in helmets. Ceramics are not used for various reason, from wear and tear (Helmets get beat up a lot more then chest plates), to weight, to manufacturing cost.

EDIT: Whoops.

 

[wulf3n]

I said solid plating. Kevlar comes in small plates that are sewn into a vest or other attire. I was specifically thinking of Kevlar when I said solid plating. Also Lamellar, upon which modern Kevlar was (partly) based.

While it can be solid plates, it can also be flexible. Also there's leather motorcycle armour that isn't solid.

But that still remains less important than the fact that magical armor is different from powered armor.

That's like saying a human is different to an animal. While true, it's because a human is a more specific type of animal, not because humans aren't animals.

 

[seditary]

Hey, at least her breasts aren't enormous.

lulz

 

[Gearhead mk2]

Spoiler

I kinda like that, actually. If that thing is alive and the hole in the armour is it's "mouth", that allows it to emote and keep a consistent design. Not sure if it'd protect much though.

OT: As far as I'm concerned, go ahead with a revealing character design, but only if you do one or more of four other things.

1) Justify it. Maybe that character kinda likes showing themselves off, maybe the materials used for their clothing are scare or expensive, maybe their powerset often damages clothing so they've learned to not wear as much, maybe armour just slows them down so they choose to go without it, etc etc. Bayonetta did that well, because the character was sexualised to the point of parody and her clothing pulls double duty as a conduit for her magic, so it'd make sense that she sheds her clothes often.

2) Make them a minority. Having a few characters wearing not very much shows that they're confident with their body, but every character wearing something titillating is objectifying, misogynistic, and often doesn't make much sense. Blazblue, as much as I love it, really fails here. Almost every female playable character is wearing something revealing or has fetishitic elements in their design, even if it makes no sense. Why would Noel, who is so shy she barely goes out apart from work, wear a backless outfit and be implied to go commando?

3) Subvert it. Skullgirls did this brilliantly. You want a catholic schoolgirl, she's got a demon for hair. You want a catgirl, she's a zombie that dismembers herself in combat. You want a nun, ohoho you have no idea what you're getting in to.

4) Make it equal opportunity. Look at Jecht, Thane or Bang Shishigami. All attractive, all likeable, all showing off a fair bit of their body. Eye candy for girls.

 

[wulf3n]

The plates in modern body armor are not Kevlar. They're made of ceramic - specifically, boron carbide.

Kevlar is used in flak jackets, in its fabric form, which are part of the entire modern battledress and are usually built into the plate carrier (Though they are removable).

Depends on the armour. There is Kevlar Soft Armour [http://www.safeguardclothing.com/types-of-body-armor/] that uses kevlar in a fabric form by itself, or mixed with kevlar/fibreglass panels. This armour is designed for low calibre hand gun protection. I believe anything under NIJ lvl 2.

For rifle protection, NIJ lvl 3 and above you need the ballistic plates.

edit:

http://www.safeguardclothing.com/kevlar-made-vests/

 

[DementedSheep]

Yeah it is juvenile but you can like juvenile stuff. I really don?t like it but then it?s likely not aimed at me. I don't think you can really "justify" that designs but you don't really need to. Just like you don't need to justify the people fighting with swords bigger than themselves, breaking physics everywhere, getting throw through walls and ignoring the existence of guns in some shows or games. It just needs to match the overall world and tone.

It?s only going to really get under my skin if it?s something I would otherwise watch and enjoy (not necessarily something to be "offended" about but it's really annoying) or if its random OTT fan service when everything else is more grounded, serious and there is a huge difference in the way guys are designed. Somehow I don't think they are shooting for serious here especially not if they are the makers of other parody's.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Because I care to talk with you and not the other half dozen!
Anyway ta-ta and have a pleasant evening.

... that's a very good reason. ^^ Thank you!

As to the armor argument, it has gone a bit off topic.

Oh, boy. I knew someone would say this...
The plates in modern body armor are not Kevlar. They're made of ceramic - specifically, boron carbide.

In my original post, I said "various substances" - which includes kevlar, boron carbide, and the Ablative armor from Mass Effect. It was wulf3n who brought up kevlar specifically. Speaking of which...

**THIS SECTION REDACTED**

Okay, this conversation is getting kind of absurd at this point. I'm talking about chipmunks.

Edit: Yeah, guys, I'm out. Tanakh, it was a pleasure discussing with you. Accursed Theory, I see you've taken it up with wulf3n directly. I hope your conversation with him is less pointless than mine was.

Either way, good evening to you, Tanakh, and to you, Accursed Theory. I look forward to further conversations on the Escapist forums with you. It has been a good as always.

 

[Fox12]

I love how her "armor" isn't protecting any of her vital organs. Thankfully, if someone attempts to shoot the top half inch of her shoulder she's totally covered (hah).

 

[Nurb]

Being sexually stimulated isn't "juvinile".

It's a chemical process in the brain that makes sexually mature human beings want to mate.

The word is just used to insult nerds

 

[wulf3n]

... when did I say solid? I included chain, which is not solid.

Armor is a solid plating or ring-mail that protects something.

And I really have no idea why we're arguing about armor itself anymore.

I like semantics

That's like saying a human is different to an animal. While true, it's because a human is a more specific type of animal, not because humans aren't animals.

No, saying that Magical Armor is not Powered Armor is like saying that a Human is not a chipmunk. Both are animals, both are even mammals, but humans are primates and chipmunks are rodents - two very different types of mammals.

Power Armour isn't a specific term. Like animal it encompasses many things, specifically armour that is powered. Magical armour is powered by magical energy, and is a type of power armour.

 

[DefunctTheory]

The plates in modern body armor are not Kevlar. They're made of ceramic - specifically, boron carbide.

Kevlar is used in flak jackets, in its fabric form, which are part of the entire modern battledress and are usually built into the plate carrier (Though they are removable).

Depends on the armour. There is Kevlar Soft Armour [http://www.safeguardclothing.com/types-of-body-armor/] that uses kevlar in a fabric form by itself, or mixed with kevlar/fibreglass panels. This armour is designed for low calibre hand gun protection. I believe anything under NIJ lvl 2.

For rifle protection, NIJ lvl 3 and above you need the ballistic plates.

edit:

http://www.safeguardclothing.com/kevlar-made-vests/

Fair enough.

It's rare, though. Hard Kevlar (Kevlar and resin) is practically useless against any sort of serious caliber rifle, and soft Kevlar (Weave) is perfectly fine for stab protection and pistol fire (Though its going to hurt like a *****).

I've never seen Hard Kevlar is anything besides helmets and biking gear. Oh, and air frames, where weight savings trump protection quality.

Ceramic plates are heavy as fuck.

EDIT: That second site you linked is hilarious. They make it sound like everyone may at sometime need a vest.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

**POST REDACTED FOR THE REASON GIVEN BELOW**

Actually, it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton

Edit: Yeah, you know what, no. This conversation is a waste of my time.

To anyone else who wants to argue about what is or is not armor or powered armor - whatever. I no longer care.

 

[wulf3n]

Power Armour isn't a specific term.

Actually, it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton

I think this is the point we've been disagreeing about. Powered Armor - or Powered Exoskeleton - is, in fact, a term.

by which definition this:

Spoiler

Is a form of power armour, even though it isn't designed as armour.

You replied using solid as "stiff" or "unbending" by pointing out there is flexible kevlar. Well, flexible kevlar is still a solid. Just like a silk dress is solid, but also soft.

My reply to you saying "I never said solid" was predicated on your assumption that solid meant stiff. I never indicated that stiffness was required for armor.

I assumed you meant stiff, given that you made a distinction between a solid plate and ring mail. even though both are technically solid. you could have just said armour is solid.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

**POST REDACTED FOR THE REASON GIVEN BELOW**

I posted a picture from a favorite anime of mine about powered armor and all anyone cares about is bitching.

Edit: Yeah, you know what, no. This conversation is a waste of my time.

To anyone else who wants to argue about what is or is not armor or powered armor - whatever. I no longer care.

 

[DeltaEdge]

I think that in order to answer your question, you need to ask yourself a few questions.
1. Is this type of skimpy "armor"/lingerie choice applied to both genders armor selection, or just a particular gender?
2. Is it made in a way to appeal solely to persons that find that particular gender to be sexually attractive, namely by showcasing their "assets"?
3. How prevalent is this armor type's usage? Do most/all of a particular gender wear this armor, or is this just this particular character's personal preference?
4. If you've concluded that the armor is made first and foremost for pandering, and has no real leverage over actual armor/battle robes, would you still defend this armor as a legitimate choice and disregard the blatant sex exploitation and pandering?

tl;dr if you answered yes to question 4, then you are being juvenile, but if you merely like it for what it is, that being pandering, then no, you are not being juvenile. It's less about liking something like this, and more about how you express your contentment of it. If you can maturely admit that it is blatant pandering/exploitative, then I see nothing juvenile about enjoying it. If you like it, but don't like people ripping on it, and come up with some flimsy cheap arguments as to why it isn't what informed people generally agree as to what it is in a knee-jerk fashion, then you are being juvenile.

 

[wulf3n]

Spoiler

Is a form of power armour, even though it isn't designed as armour.

... which looks pretty much just like a less-sexy version of the picture I posted.

And looks nothing like what the OP posted.

I rest my case.

So you're saying something that doesn't provide protection is armour, but something that does [even if it is magical] is not armour?

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Spoiler

I kinda like that, actually. If that thing is alive and the hole in the armour is it's "mouth", that allows it to emote and keep a consistent design. Not sure if it'd protect much though.

OT: As far as I'm concerned, go ahead with a revealing character design, but only if you do one or more of four other things.

1) Justify it. Maybe that character kinda likes showing themselves off, maybe the materials used for their clothing are scare or expensive, maybe their powerset often damages clothing so they've learned to not wear as much, maybe armour just slows them down so they choose to go without it, etc etc. Bayonetta did that well, because the character was sexualised to the point of parody and her clothing pulls double duty as a conduit for her magic, so it'd make sense that she sheds her clothes often.

2) Make them a minority. Having a few characters wearing not very much shows that they're confident with their body, but every character wearing something titillating is objectifying, misogynistic, and often doesn't make much sense. Blazblue, as much as I love it, really fails here. Almost every female playable character is wearing something revealing or has fetishitic elements in their design, even if it makes no sense. Why would Noel, who is so shy she barely goes out apart from work, wear a backless outfit and be implied to go commando?

That's part of why the level of the disgust for this seems a bit out of proportion. Because I found some of the art for three other girls in the anime and none of them wear something like this. It's still not armor, but the guys aren't wearing anything that could be considered armor either.

Seriously, this is EXACTLY like the whole fiasco with the Sorceress in Dragon's Crown. People took one look at one character and threw a fit about it before it was even out yet. The only difference is that this is an anime.

I agree.

The proper term is 'Stripperiffic'. Please use this in the future, fellows.

...... Look. When you look at someone, even a fictional character, dressed like this and then refer to what they're wearing as "slut armor" you are inferring that that person is a slut. When you refer to it as "stripperiffic" you are inferring that they are a stripper. This is going from a judgement of the person that drew this character or put this person in that outfit, and instead is a judgement of that character/person instead.

 

[MeisterKleister]

In his column about the Dragon's Crown controversy, MovieBob sums up the issue nicely, I think:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/moviebob/10304-It-Never-Ends

There is no reason to feel bad about liking this.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

**POST REDACTED FOR THE REASON GIVEN BELOW**

**sigh**

This conversation is going in circles. I've said what I have to say.

Edit: Yeah, you know what, no. This conversation is a waste of my time.

To anyone else who wants to argue about what is or is not armor or powered armor - whatever. I no longer care.

 

[wulf3n]

I'm saying that what you pictured is Powered Armor. Because that's exactly what it is.

It's not armour, it's the Hybrid Assistive Limb [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Assistive_Limb] exoskeleton to aid those with disabilities in moving.

A definition that calls something that provides no protection armour is obviously incorrect.

edit:

While looking into the origin of the term "power armor" I came across this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lensman#Technology], the first known use of the word.

Power Armor: While never explicitly given to supplying increased strength in the manner of a powered exoskeleton, armored space-suits available to both the Patrol and to Boskone nonetheless contain energy shields and inertialess drive units. Further, during the career of Kimball Kinnison (father of the Children of the Lens) a suit was fabricated in order to permit him to survive an assault upon the command centre of an enemy fortress which is quite obviously both armored to the point where a normal man could not operate it and yet fully mobile, implying some form of load-carrying augmentation. This would make it the first known example of powered infantry battle armor in science fiction.