Sexy Shelob...why? Just why?

[TheMysteriousGX]

They figured they needed more female characters I guess. But I'd rather they just create a new character like that elf in The Hobbit movies.

That...doesn't make any sense. Shelob was already female. This is a well established fact.

I meant more women.

More sexy women. (Sounds like a jab at you, totally isn't, just don't know how to frame it as a jab at the Mordor guys)

But yeah, if they're going to twist the canon, making more OC's is probably the way to go. Mordor had human allies. Heck, are there Orc women? They've got a stable(ish) population.

 

[Saelune]

Did you see the article about fucking loot boxes?

Mordor 2 is vying for "everything wrong with modern gaming" title.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Except the character looses all characterizations if she just attacks him. If it just becomes a spider boss and nothing more, then what character did she really have? She would become nothing more than Joro-Gumo from Nioh. http://nioh.wiki.fextralife.com/Joro-Gumo

A half-woman/spider thing that litterally just shows up for a boss fight and that's it. At that point you don't have a character, you just have a 3d boss that tries to kill you.

As opposed to the character of a stock sexy manipulator?

Kind of a lateral move on the "character" front.

I mean, could Monolith do something even remotely new or fresh with the archetype? Maybe, but I'm not holding my breath. Now, getting the MC to make deals with an obvious spider monster that has something he wants, there's a writing challenge.

 

[Erttheking]

I suppose the spider could try talking to the main character, and manipulating him that way. But the female form is to give the main character some human attachment, some emotional justification to try and help the spider. If she remained just a spider then he would have no connection to a monster. Which you COULD do, but then you risk pulling the player out of the experience because the player would have no attachment to a gross ass spider. So the human characteristics are required to form a connection.

Why the frick do we need to have an emotional connection to Shelob? Why? I mean...just why? Talion is making a deal with an extremely powerful and dangerous being. It's supposed to be a risky situation. Shelob's most famous appearance was Peter Jackson sharing his arachnophobia with the world at large. Here's a reason to help the spider. She's powerful and has something we want. That's we need. In the first game we were able to work with Gollum without the need to sex him up, or feeling any kind of emotional attachment to him, why is Shelob different?

We should not be feeling attachment towards Shelob. We should be feeling distrust, fear, and paranoia. It should be like making a deal with Smaug!

 

[RaikuFA]

Who wants to fuck a spider? If I fuckers a spider, would it be my goo or their goo everywhere?

 

[CaitSeith]

Taking on the guise of a pretty lady is pretty much fantasy trope 101. Shadow of War is doing nothing unique or special regarding this.

That's pretty much the issue. Instead of having Shelob become an ally in her original form, she has to follow an overused boring fantasy trope. How many evil female allies/PCs in games don't fall in the dangerous pretty girl or sexy monster category? The issue comes not so much from the game itself, but from the lack of variety on AAA games. Besides, Shelob herself is an interesting character as she is. Making Shelob a beautiful woman is lazy writing.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Oh is this about Jim's video, 'cause that was just a hot mess and very poorly executed.

Also as a daughter of Ungoliant, isn't Shelob magically gifted in the ways of seduction, misdirection and manipulation? And if I remember correctly, Ungoliant was known to 'transform' for lack of a better term, into any form that fit her needs, including attractive women.

Think of them less like a brainless 'natural' spider and more like the spider from It. But instead of an evil clown to terrorize kids, its a hot ass woman to put a magical monster killing hero at ease, so he doesn't do what he does best to her eight eyed face.
I mean if Mr. Growly McGrizzleFace was actually Lady Growly McSternFace Shelob would probably take the form of her dead son, or husband, or dead sister or whatever.
Because Shelob is a magical, manipulating demiGod who happens to look kinda like a giant spider, when she chooses to.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Did you see the article about fucking loot boxes?

Mordor 2 is vying for "everything wrong with modern gaming" title.

This. I could give two shits about some canon rape in lieu of that.

And by the by, NO, the Balrogs being shirtless smexy males would still not be in canon either. From the official Tolkien Beastiery:

Hulking, man-like demons with manes of fire and nostrils that breathed flame. They seemed to move within clouds of black shadow and their limbs coiled like serpents.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

They figured they needed more female characters I guess. But I'd rather they just create a new character like that elf in The Hobbit movies.

That...doesn't make any sense. Shelob was already female. This is a well established fact.

I meant more women.

More sexy women.

But yeah, if they're going to twist the canon, making more OC's is probably the way to go. Mordor had human allies. Heck, are there Orc women? They've got a stable(ish) population.

The lore is that orcs were originally elves, captured and corrupted by Morgoth during the First Age. So unless he very specifically picked male elves or the transformation somehow impaired their reproductive skills, there's no reason to assume there aren't female orcs or that they cannot breed with male orcs.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

And if I remember correctly, Ungoliant was known to 'transform' for lack of a better term, into any form that fit her needs, including attractive women.

The Silmarillion implies she was "locked" into that form following the attack on the Two Trees, kind of how Sauron would lose his ability to shape-shift after the Numenor episode. And that because of that she birthed the so-called "Great Spiders" (i.e. Shelob). Absolutely nothing in the canon suggests these spiders or indeed Shelob retained any of their ancestor's shape-shifting abilities. Not that you couldn't write your way around that in a work of fantasy, but Tolkien didn't.

 

[Aerosteam]

Sexualising the giant spider, I'm fine with the idea of, but fuck, I wouldn't have known that was Shelob unless I was told.

I just dislike seeing a massive lack of creativity. Like, is there anything with her character design that relates to spiders in anyway?

 

[CritialGaming]

Oh is this about Jim's video, 'cause that was just a hot mess and very poorly executed.

Also as a daughter of Ungoliant, isn't Shelob magically gifted in the ways of seduction, misdirection and manipulation? And if I remember correctly, Ungoliant was known to 'transform' for lack of a better term, into any form that fit her needs, including attractive women.

Think of them less like a brainless 'natural' spider and more like the spider from It. But instead of an evil clown to terrorize kids, its a hot ass woman to put a magical monster killing hero at ease, so he doesn't do what he does best to her eight eyed face.
I mean if Mr. Growly McGrizzleFace was actually Lady Growly McSternFace Shelob would probably take the form of her dead son, or husband, or dead sister or whatever.
Because Shelob is a magical, manipulating demiGod who happens to look kinda like a giant spider, when she chooses to.

That's pretty much the issue. Instead of having Shelob become an ally in her original form, she has to follow an overused boring fantasy trope. How many evil female allies/PCs in games don't fall in the dangerous pretty girl or sexy monster category? The issue comes not so much from the game itself, but from the lack of variety on AAA games. Besides, Shelob herself is an interesting character as she is. Making Shelob a beautiful woman is lazy writing.

So I don't know enough about the Lore of this universe to know better, but according to SilentPony Shelob has a history of shapeshifting, seduction and manipulation. Which other lore folks will argue that things changed or whatever. But if this is in her character HISTORY, then it should be clear that is how the developers are using the character and therefore there isn't a problem here.

Like it or not, the character was originally created as a seductress, and she is merely being used that way here. So you can say that it isn't interesting enough all you want. It doesn't mean that the character is out of context. So fine, don't like the character. The developers are under no obligation to make sure you personally like every character.

If it bothers you that much, don't get the game. But I would bet that it doesn't bother anybody bad enough that they'll refuse to pick up the game if they had interest in the game to being with.


EDIT: Again I looked into this and acording to http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Shelob Shelob has never been able to shapeshift, nor had history as anything other than an evil spider. So yeah I guess Shadows of War is just giving her tits for the sake of it. Oh well. I guess I wont buy the game then.

The real shit about this game is that the game will be Pay 2 Win. http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news/middle-earth-shadow-of-war-will-let-you-buy-orcs-with-cash-w496236

So that can go fuck right off.

 

[Avnger]

Sexualising the giant spider, I'm fine with the idea of, but fuck, I wouldn't have known that was Shelob unless I was told.

I just dislike seeing a massive lack of creativity. Like, is there anything with her character design that relates to spiders in anyway?

Based on the trailer, the extent comes from occasionally having a small spider playing on her arm/hand. So, no... not any more than any other dark, evil, powerful, hot, goth-esque female villan.

 

[CritialGaming]

Sexualising the giant spider, I'm fine with the idea of, but fuck, I wouldn't have known that was Shelob unless I was told.

I just dislike seeing a massive lack of creativity. Like, is there anything with her character design that relates to spiders in anyway?

Based on the trailer, the extent comes from occasionally having a small spider playing on her arm/hand. So, no... not any more than any other dark, evil, powerful, hot, goth-esque female villan.

Does the fact that she becomes a big fuck-off spider not count?

 

[CaitSeith]

So you can say that it isn't interesting enough all you want. It doesn't mean that the character is out of context.

Being out of context or not doesn't matter. It isn't part of the problem.

So fine, don't like the character. The developers are under no obligation to make sure you personally like every character.

They aren't, but that's besides the point.

If it bothers you that much, don't get the game.

Irrelevant. If our criticism bother you that much, then don't read this thread.

But I would bet that it doesn't bother anybody bad enough that they'll refuse to pick up the game if they had interest in the game to being with.

Maybe, maybe not. However, picking up the game doesn't mean we can't be critical about it either.

PS: If I don't buy the game, it wouldn't be because Shelob is now a better candidate for rule 34 than before; but because of having microtransactions and lootboxes on a $60+ game.

 

[CaitSeith]

I mean if Mr. Growly McGrizzleFace was actually Lady Growly McSternFace Shelob would probably take the form of her dead son, or husband, or dead sister or whatever.

Question: Why didn't Shelob take the form of Mr. Growly McGrizzleFace's dead son, dead daughter, dead sister, dead father, dead mother or whatever?
Answer: Because the developers decided she would not.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I mean if Mr. Growly McGrizzleFace was actually Lady Growly McSternFace Shelob would probably take the form of her dead son, or husband, or dead sister or whatever.

Question: Why didn't Shelob take the form of Mr. Growly McGrizzleFace's dead son, dead daughter, dead sister, dead father, dead mother or whatever?
Answer: Because the developers decided she would not.

If I had to guess it's because Mr. Growly is horny and she's trying to seduce him. In the previous game he showed a...sensitive side to helping cute girls, and if she lays the honey on thick he'll more likely agree to help her control the One Ring or free her or whatever it is she wants.

Remember, she had agency! She, like Bayonetta, is 100% free to choose everything she does. I know that because everyone and their dog called me out when I said Bayonetta was sexist. So I will apply the same logic to Spider Boobs. She is free to pick her form.

 

[CritialGaming]

PS: If I don't buy the game, it wouldn't be because Shelob is now a better candidate for rule 34 than before; but because of having microtransactions and lootboxes on a $60+ game.

This I think is far more egregious than some stupid spider chick. Not only are they loot boxes, but they are actually paid progression! Which is the worse thing possible. It would be whatever if it was just cosmetics, but they actually said you'll be able to buy upgrades to your character in the competitive mode.

 

[Avnger]

Sexualising the giant spider, I'm fine with the idea of, but fuck, I wouldn't have known that was Shelob unless I was told.

I just dislike seeing a massive lack of creativity. Like, is there anything with her character design that relates to spiders in anyway?

Based on the trailer, the extent comes from occasionally having a small spider playing on her arm/hand. So, no... not any more than any other dark, evil, powerful, hot, goth-esque female villan.

Does the fact that she becomes a big fuck-off spider not count?

Well considering she is actually supposed to be a giant spider the entirety of the time, no, no it doesn't.

 

[CaitSeith]

I mean if Mr. Growly McGrizzleFace was actually Lady Growly McSternFace Shelob would probably take the form of her dead son, or husband, or dead sister or whatever.

Question: Why didn't Shelob take the form of Mr. Growly McGrizzleFace's dead son, dead daughter, dead sister, dead father, dead mother or whatever?
Answer: Because the developers decided she would not.

If I had to guess it's because Mr. Growly is horny and she's trying to seduce him. In the previous game he showed a...sensitive side to helping cute girls, and if she lays the honey on thick he'll more likely agree to help her control the One Ring or free her or whatever it is she wants.

Remember, she had agency! She, like Bayonetta, is 100% free to choose everything she does. I know that because everyone and their dog called me out when I said Bayonetta was sexist. So I will apply the same logic to Spider Boobs. She is free to pick her form.

At the end of the day, agency isn't the problem; because Shelob was already a strong female character with agency beforehand (not even Sauron could control her). I'm not guessing this change comes from any story reasons; because story context influence developer's creative choices much less than business decisions (and this, my friend, looks very suspiciously like the later).