Shadow of the Colossus...meh

[Thick]

You have no understanding of the concept of 'minimalism'.

That's fine I guess, minimalism doesn't appeal to everyone.

But I'm sorry you didn't like it, because it's one of the best games ever made!!!

The same could be said of you and the concept of criticism.

SotC is, at the end of the day, a fun enough game that is worth playing, but it let me down pretty hard.

 

[Jumplion]

You have no understanding of the concept of 'minimalism'.

That's fine I guess, minimalism doesn't appeal to everyone.

But I'm sorry you didn't like it, because it's one of the best games ever made!!!

The same could be said of you and the concept of criticism.

SotC is, at the end of the day, a fun enough game that is worth playing, but it let me down pretty hard.

Well, I guess it's because you had high expectations from everyone else. It's fine if you don't like SotC to the same extent that everyone else did, though I still loved it as my previous posts clearly show.

 

[Thick]

You have no understanding of the concept of 'minimalism'.

That's fine I guess, minimalism doesn't appeal to everyone.

But I'm sorry you didn't like it, because it's one of the best games ever made!!!

The same could be said of you and the concept of criticism.

SotC is, at the end of the day, a fun enough game that is worth playing, but it let me down pretty hard.

Well, I guess it's because you had high expectations from everyone else. It's fine if you don't like SotC to the same extent that everyone else did, though I still loved it as my previous posts clearly show.

A distinct possibility. But you have to agree it's hard to not get high expectations for this game given its prominent place on the tongue of anyone saying good things about games.

 

[irequirefood]

Ah that's unfortunate that you didn't enjoy it much. I haven't played it yet but am hoping to soon so I can decide for myself, rather than just assume it's good from the hype.

What would be any precautions you would give to someone who is still looking to play it?

Oh man, I love this. <-- Not sarcasm

It's absolutely worth playing, but I just wish I had rented it instead of buying it. Like I said, my game budget is quite limited.

I suppose that's the only precaution I could reccomend. Since it's apparently supposed to be hit or miss, rent it rather than buying it.

Ahh thanks. I have a friend who owns it, so I will be borrowing it off them.

 

[CobraX]

Shadow Of The Colossus SUCKED. There I said it. No story.None.Screw Dat'.

Give me some direction, give me some reason to care about your boring game!
Not worth the time, I say pass on shadow of the colossus.

PS - I also found the controls very...odd. I could never put my finger on it, but they never felt 100% right.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

My point isn't that there is no story, just that said story isn't deep and meaningful like people like blather about.

I can only disagree with you here. I think a story about a young man's inability to let go, even as he ruins his very soul, is pretty damn ambitious for any medium. It's a deft illustration of youth's refusal to grasp the inevitability of loss. I can't think of a more interesting video game plot off the top of my head.

Can you maybe provide an example of a story that you believe to be deep and meaningful?

Also, the opening and ending cutscenes are full of dialouge, which would seem to imply that the killing of the colossi is actually just busywork.

Don't be ridiculous. There's no one for wander to interact with outside of the colossi until the very end of the game, which is why that portion features dialogue. Again, you're attributing story value exclusively to expository sequences. I can't even begin to explain how backwards that is; strict exposition is generally the weakest part of any story. SotC has a lot more "show" than "tell", which is another reason why I respect it so.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

The deep sea chasm size difference of dialogue between SotC and something like Metal Gear belies my complaint with the SotC story. There's like 10 total minutes of any spoken words at all over the course of a 4-5 hour game (excluding all the times you call for your horse), only 6 or so minutes of that time has any emotion in it at all, and those all come at the very end of the game. If there was so clearly a singularly correct interpretation of the story, than would the game really have been worse off if it gave me a couple more examples of Wander being unable to let go? Not constant gabbing, just a little emoting, like after every 4 colossi even or something. You could get away with like 15 or 20 minutes of spoken dialogue over the course of a 4-5 hour game. Writing a specific story and then stripping out elements of it to the point where I don't have to give a toss about the protagonist is art crossing into the realm of the presumptuous.

We're obviously in very different camps when it comes to effective storytelling.

I believe Metal Gear Solid's incessant and nonsensical cut scenes to be the absolute bane of this medium. From MGS2 on, I haven't been able to stomach five consecutive minutes of that bullshit. Quality writing is concise and direct. Same goes for quality action, exposition, and dialogue. If it's overly flashy and complicated, it's also contrived for the audience. I'm simply not interested in being a part of that audience. I don't want to be spoon fed that kind of crap. I want to observe a good story rather than have it read to me, at length, by one of the characters.

SotC has almost no dialogue because there is only one human character for most of the story. He's not going to talk to himself just to fill in the blanks (one of the worst storytelling mechanics in existence - ask any legitimate author) for players who cannot interpret the on-screen action. And honestly, it wasn't that hard to interpret. Yes, there's some intentional ambiguity here and there, but the central theme was obvious. The boy throws away his former life by stealing an important relic, travels to a forbidden valley, and kills the colossi that imprison an ancient evil - all at the cost of his own soul, and all for the love of one who is gone. If that doesn't scream "refusing to accept loss and move on with your life will ruin you", you probably shouldn't take a job teaching english lit.

Anyways, none of this matters. When you decide to buy into the hype surrounding a game without effectively checking your own expectations, the end result is always going to be disappointment and, subsequently, confusion. That's on you, friend. Dredging it up in a public forum with the foolish intent to change minds is naive at best, malicious at worst. You should stop now.

Edit: gah, I should really check post histories before degrading myself with these sorts of threads. I was trying to have a legitimate discussion about storytelling with someone who thinks Final Fantasy 13 didn't suck. I feel stupid now.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

I very recently bought Shadow of the Colossus because I had never heard a negative word against it (which, come to think of it, should have sent up a red flag right there), and all those glowing reviews make it all the sadder that I'm overall not pleased with it.

I would say that I won't spoil any of the story or anything, but there is precious little that I could spoil if I wanted to. The story in SotC is barely there, and this may be because I've been working the narrative sections of my brain extra hard recently, but I think the game suffered greatly for it. Add to that there is virtually no benefit from exploring the overworld and you're left with gameplay that is pretty much exclusively fighting these colossi. Once you figure out the method to beat each one (which at times can feel more annoying than challenging) there is pretty much no variation when you face them again which, as I mentioned, is nearly all you can do. Oh, and the platforming and, God especially the horse, handle like crap. And what the hell is with calling numbers 11 and 14 colossi? That's ridiculous. That's like saying I'm successful with the ladies.

So the only things this game has going for it is a unique premise and good aesthetics (which doesn't find its way into everything)

So this game has let me down, and since my game budget is so slim, makes me upset.

Ya know, I played until I killed about five collosi myself, and at the time it was boring as hell, but I wish now that I have no backwards compatible PS3 that I'd appreciated the simplicity of it all...

Though I heard that there are collectibles in the game. Is this true?

 

[eytrvnbmgkhjiuty]

.

 

[Thick]

The deep sea chasm size difference of dialogue between SotC and something like Metal Gear belies my complaint with the SotC story. There's like 10 total minutes of any spoken words at all over the course of a 4-5 hour game (excluding all the times you call for your horse), only 6 or so minutes of that time has any emotion in it at all, and those all come at the very end of the game. If there was so clearly a singularly correct interpretation of the story, than would the game really have been worse off if it gave me a couple more examples of Wander being unable to let go? Not constant gabbing, just a little emoting, like after every 4 colossi even or something. You could get away with like 15 or 20 minutes of spoken dialogue over the course of a 4-5 hour game. Writing a specific story and then stripping out elements of it to the point where I don't have to give a toss about the protagonist is art crossing into the realm of the presumptuous.

We're obviously in very different camps when it comes to effective storytelling.

I believe Metal Gear Solid's incessant and nonsensical cut scenes to be the absolute bane of this medium. From MGS2 on, I haven't been able to stomach five consecutive minutes of that bullshit. Quality writing is concise and direct. Same goes for quality action, exposition, and dialogue. If it's overly flashy and complicated, it's also contrived for the audience. I'm simply not interested in being a part of that audience. I don't want to be spoon fed that kind of crap. I want to observe a good story rather than have it read to me, at length, by one of the characters.

SotC has almost no dialogue because there is only one human character for most of the story. He's not going to talk to himself just to fill in the blanks (one of the worst storytelling mechanics in existence - ask any legitimate author) for players who cannot interpret the on-screen action. And honestly, it wasn't that hard to interpret. Yes, there's some intentional ambiguity here and there, but the central theme was obvious. The boy throws away his former life by stealing an important relic, travels to a forbidden valley, and kills the colossi that imprison an ancient evil - all at the cost of his own soul, and all for the love of one who is gone. If that doesn't scream "refusing to accept loss and move on with your life will ruin you", you probably shouldn't take a job teaching english lit.

Anyways, none of this matters. When you decide to buy into the hype surrounding a game without effectively checking your own expectations, the end result is always going to be disappointment and, subsequently, confusion. That's on you, friend. Dredging it up in a public forum with the foolish intent to change minds is naive at best, malicious at worst. You should stop now.

Edit: gah, I should really check post histories before degrading myself with these sorts of threads. I was trying to have a legitimate discussion about storytelling with someone who thinks Final Fantasy 13 didn't suck. I feel stupid now.

I, too, am sad. Sad that someone so adept at reading something meaningful from details can then miss details so hard. I never said that MGS had a good story or good storytelling, I was saying that comparing the two on basis of the amount of dialogue was difficult because of the massive, massive difference between the two. MGS IS bad storytelling because it drones on. MGS would be like binging yourself on Doritos for 96 hours straight, and SotC conversely is like a half a spoonful of yogurt; sure that half a spoonful was kind of tasty, but I'd rather have the whole cup.

I suppose your detail catching eye could account for how one would think that saying that I won't defend FF13 from valid complaints and that there was one bit about it I really liked would lead you to my full opinion on the game. The fact that you're wrong makes we wonder if we can trust that discerning eye of yours (I kid).

I'm also sad that time has turned my intentions into attention seeking maliciousness (which is news to me, mind.), rendered my criticism moot and this otherwise good game seemingly, suspiciously impervious. Perhaps I will go buy a current game and share my thoughts on it. (No I won't).

I am happy, though, that this thread netted me two badges, which was entirely unexpected. High fives? Anyone? No? Okay no high fives.

 

[Jumplion]

Though I heard that there are collectibles in the game. Is this true?

Yes, you can shoot down & eat fruit to increase your health; hunt silver-tailed lizards and eat their tails to increase stamina; and, if you have enough stamina, you can reach the secret garden and eat special fruit that reduces both for reasons I'm not entirely sure. There are also unlockable weapons when you play a second time.

Some people interpret the secret garden fruit as the fruit from the Garden of Eden I.E. The forbidden apple that Eve eats.

SYMBOLISM!

 

[Thick]

Though I heard that there are collectibles in the game. Is this true?

Yes, you can shoot down & eat fruit to increase your health; hunt silver-tailed lizards and eat their tails to increase stamina; and, if you have enough stamina, you can reach the secret garden and eat special fruit that reduces both for reasons I'm not entirely sure. There are also unlockable weapons when you play a second time.

Though, that does raise an interesting, if not unsettling, question about the gameplay.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

I, too, am sad. Sad that someone so adept at reading something meaningful from details can then miss details so hard. I never said that MGS had a good story or good storytelling, I was saying that comparing the two on basis of the amount of dialogue was difficult because of the massive, massive difference between the two. MGS IS bad storytelling because it drones on. MGS would be like binging yourself on Doritos for 96 hours straight, and SotC conversely is like a half a spoonful of yogurt; sure that half a spoonful was kind of tasty, but I'd rather have the whole cup.

You're defining, quite arbitrarily, and with no regard for context, what constitutes an appropriate amount of dialogue in storytelling. The implication is that every story somehow owes you a certain degree of directed exposition, which is just nonsensical. Stories only ever owe anything to themselves. The tale of a lone man wandering through a forbidden valley should necessarily contain next to no dialogue or emoting. You're well within your rights to dismiss said story as uninteresting to you personally, but you shouldn't confuse that legitimate dismissal as equally legitimate criticism of the narrative. Essentially, you're advocating they spice up the storytelling at the expense of the premise just to appease people who weren't drawn to it in the first place.

I suppose your detail catching eye could account for how one would think that saying that I won't defend FF13 from valid complaints and that there was one bit about it I really liked would lead you to my full opinion on the game.

The deployment of impenetrable sentence structure typically signals the end of rational debate.

All I'll say on the matter is this: anyone who enters into a serious discussion about the characterization of someone named "Lightning" is probably not going to sway any of my serious opinions. No offense.

I'm also sad that time has turned my intentions into attention seeking maliciousness (which is news to me, mind.), rendered my criticism moot and this otherwise good game seemingly, suspiciously impervious. Perhaps I will go buy a current game and share my thoughts on it. (No I won't).

I am happy, though, that this thread netted me two badges, which was entirely unexpected. High fives? Anyone? No? Okay no high fives.

Malice at worst, I said. It's just very typical behavior. Join a forum. Post a clearly unpopular opinion without much in the way of convincing evidence. Proceed to argue the point into the ground, changing absolutely no one's mind in the process. We've all seen this progression a hundred times. It's so common that the only logical explanations are ignorance or malice. I don't believe you're outright trolling, so I'll grant you naivety. That is, naivety with regard to forum behavior.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

Did it ever occur to you that some people just thought it was a bad all around game. I played it when it came out and no it didnt pour effort, stunning art or emotion at all. It poured completely origional dribble which is just as bad as rehased dribble. There was no story at all and really for most of the game their seemed to be no point other then the main character is completely insane and hates collossus. The only type of people who enjoy it are people who go ohhh that looks perty while drooling into their cup. They are so easily distracted by something graphics/scenery that they will accept a complete crap game as gods gift to man.

Your inability to decipher the protagonist's extremely well-defined motivation sort of excludes you from any conversation involving... ideas. Seriously, I can't even figure out how to tackle this one. The guy puts a dead girl on a slab inside an ancient ruin and strikes up a deal with a fairly menacing incorporeal entity. If you can't figure out why he's killing colossi, you might have a learning disability.

I think the following bit, from a person who expressed boredom with SotC, kind of sums it up.

Though I heard that there are collectibles in the game. Is this true?

If your opinion of this game is at all affected by the existence of collectibles, it's probably not the game for you. There's nothing wrong with that. Nothing can please everyone.