Sharia (Islamic Law) in Great Britain

Recommended Videos

Capt_Jack_Doicy

New member
Feb 20, 2008
117
0
0
Sorry I never replied, but there was one point I meant to make but I went away with the VSO for a year.

Just because I defend Islam doesn't make me a muslim, and the reason I could never be Prime minister is not because of voting habits but because in the UK its Illegal for a Catholic to hold that position. Thats why Tony Blair waited till he left office to convert.
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
It sounds okay to me. Since it's a matter of civil, not criminal (those would presumably still be under normal British law), cases, and it relies on the consent of the two parties, I don't see the harm in allowing certain cultural practices.
 

Booze Zombie

New member
Dec 8, 2007
7,416
0
0
Sharia Law should not be in any country, anywhere, ever, at any time.

Be any religion you want, but keep your imaginary friend away from the law!
 

Raven's Nest

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2009
2,955
0
41
I could probably not care less...

What gets my goat however, is when people assume all muslims want this to happen (especially the women). Try considering that next time you tell them all to fuck off back to their own country because you think they all want to take over England.
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
[That's the question that should really be asked: how did a culture that was so open to science and learning and trade and outsiders turn into a culture that only takes interest in the modern world's more efficient and terrifying ways of killing people? How did Islam go from Saladin and Suleiman the Magnificent to bin Laden?
Welcome to the wonderful world of "extremism." The question you asked has a much, much more complicated answer, of course. I just wanted to get out of the way that you're talking about a loud, violent, unreasonable minority grouping in the world's second largest religion.

To start off with, at some point in the past (I think the 12th century or so), there was a major internal conflict within the clergy of the Muslim world (I think it was the Abyssid Caliphate still in power?). The immediate question being asked was something along the lines of "Is the Qu'ran created by God or co-existant with God?" The two sides arguing this represented progressive and traditionalist movements, respectively, and the ultimate result of their conflict was victory for the traditionalists. That's probably oversimplified, but the point is that the clergy effectively froze Islamic theology into one set interpretation, and hardline legal theories became more favored. Sharia law was set to reflect this.

Now, at some point in the past century or so, there started an organization called the Society of Muslim Brothers (Muslim Brotherhood for short). They were involved in a bunch of pan-Arab activity throughout the Middle East, but didn't have very many successes. In one case in particular, Egypt, their actions were crushed so badly that some of their members started to rethink their whole "non-violence" shtick. Long story short, while the Muslim Brotherhood eventually recovered, these certain members were influenced by some of the aforementioned hardline legal theories, especially those with the concept of "fiqh" (essentially, the ability to denounce other Muslims as heretics), and they and their ideas found a home in Saudi Arabia.

To further cut a long story short, true modern Islamic terrorist organizations are descended from the Wahhabist ideologies fostered by those former Brotherhood members. Aside from being a very small but violent grouping altogether, who draw their membership mainly from the ranks of lower-middle to upper-middle class disaffected Muslims (much lower or much higher, and people tend to have other concerns), there are two very, very important aspects of this grouping that tend to be looked over in the west.

First off, groups like Al Qaeda are extremely iconoclastic; they don't like the clergy. Osama bin Laden probably has dozens of fatwas out on him right now, especially since he had the audacity to issue a few of his own; his break with mainline clerics is near-total, and they perceive him as not just a dangerous crackpot, but a usurper (he's not clergy, or a recognized legal expert). Second, most of their ire is directed towards other Muslims, Shi'a and Sufis in particular. This is where the concept of fiqh comes back in, as those terrorist groups are universally convinced that the Shi'a all deserve to die. Ironically, this means that most of them view Iran as a greater threat and insult than Israel. It's not a coincidence that Israel's most vocal critic (besides its next-door neighbors) is a Shi'a-led theocracy trying to deflect attention.

There is a third thing to mention, I guess. People in the west quite often don't distinguish between terrorist motivations. There's a vast gap between the motivations and desires of, say, Al Qaeda and Hamas. We can deal with the latter. There's none of that with the former. I don't know if this came up in the previous pages or not, just thought I'd mention it.
 

Mozared

New member
Mar 26, 2009
1,607
0
0
werepossum said:
Is it a dangerous excursion into crossing the line between church and state,
That, basically. "Belief" is called "Belief" for a reason. Because it cannot be proven. I am all happy with people believing in things than cannot be proven (seeing as it gives hope), but we should never use religion as a base for any kind of rules. Unproven, biased tales and ideas make for a very bad location to build fundamental rules on.
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
Mozared said:
werepossum said:
Is it a dangerous excursion into crossing the line between church and state,
That, basically. "Belief" is called "Belief" for a reason. Because it cannot be proven. I am all happy with people believing in things than cannot be proven (seeing as it gives hope), but we should never use religion as a base for any kind of rules. Unproven, biased tales and ideas make for a very bad location to build fundamental rules on.
You mean, like prohibitions against murder, theft, and harmful lies?

On the contrary. I'm all right with people believing what they want and following the rules of their culture. I'm less enthused with people who point to religion like it automatically invalidates anything its followers say.
 

UltraParanoia

New member
Oct 11, 2009
697
0
0
Sucks for you brits, have fun.

I'll be over here in the united states of mexico. At least they don't have crazy "extremists" who want to kill us because we exist. They just have giant drug cartels.


Also, I read all of the posts in this thread, is it normal for my brain to hurt?
 

Izakflashman

New member
Dec 18, 2008
250
0
0
Been seeing this coming for a while now.
Not cool, not cool at all. Its not their country and perhaps they should gtfo.
 

Agema

Overhead a rainbow appears... in black and white
Legacy
Mar 3, 2009
9,917
7,080
118
Let's be quite clear: there is no Shariah law in the UK.

What there is, is room in the existing national law for an arbitration process, where a third party mediates the dispute. Arbitration can only occur in a limited number of occasions - it's applicable only for some civil disputes. All parties must freely agree to the process.

If two people freely choose an arbitration by an third party mediator who uses Shariah law as a yardstick, I don't see what the problem is. Fairly obviously, anyone who faces severe disadvantage (for instance Shariah divorces which heavily favour the men) can simply refuse arbitration and take the case to the courts.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Jul 18, 2009
20,519
5,335
118
Copter400 said:
You go live in another country. You accept that country's laws. No negotiations.
You'd think it would be that simple, wouldn't you?

Unfortunatly Europe has a massive guilty conscience brought on by centuries of colonization, slavery and ofcourse WW2. Because of this we want to make other cultures feel as comfortable as possible in our country.

During my high school years you weren't allowed to wear clothing with the Dutch flag on it, because it was deemed offensive to the Muslim students. That's how bad it was during the mid 90's. During that time if you said anything partially racist about Muslims you were treated like the f*cking anti-Christ.

But, it's Europes own fault, I guess. If you migrate thousands and thousands of people from a religiously strict culture into your own, then things are going to clash BIG.
 

Agema

Overhead a rainbow appears... in black and white
Legacy
Mar 3, 2009
9,917
7,080
118
bagodix said:
Sharia does not deserve even the tiniest amount of legitimacy, and the same could really be said about Islam itself.
Now THAT is out of order.

Most Muslims in the UK are peaceful, friendly people who respect the UK's laws, and I'm quite happy to share a country with them.
 

chris89

New member
Sep 5, 2009
66
0
0
It 'Shouldn't' Happen, and hope that it does, but then if it does god knows what trouble would be kicked up, Who would want a law that completely treats Women as Objects and have no rights? Also if you don't follow you get killed....

Well Their Protest in London last week was called off as the Police couldn't promise them protection, And just remember who are the violent Mobs not the EDL (English Defence League) Who are not BNP supporters i REPEAT NOT. But the Teenagers off the Islamic faith who also want Sharia law.
 

Froobyx

New member
Mar 22, 2009
753
0
0
And then there's political correctness, over here, we can no longer sing the nursery rhyme "Ba Ba Black Sheep" It's now "Ba Ba Rainbow Sheep" to stop coloured people from being offended. There're loads more but I'm just so rarghh about this thread that I lost track.

I actually think it's disgusting that people from different countries come over here and then treat it like it's their own country.. White people get called racist, but when it's the other way round, the coloured people aren't racist the white people still are! And then we're the ones that get punished for it. The government is so scared of being called racist imo that it'll do anything in it's power to stop them all getting offended.

And I'm not hating or anything, but if a man beats his wife then yes he should get punished by British LAW, not a law brought in by some guys who believe differently. Even if these laws only apply to those of the Islamic faith, they should still get punished by the British law because they're in Great Britain.
 

lenin_117

New member
Nov 16, 2008
547
0
0
I just had to comment that I was listening to rock the casbah by the clash when i found this thread... Which is coincidential..