Shattered Horizon: Graphic Overload

[Asehujiko]

Shattered Horizon is to 3Dmark Vantage what Google Earth Flight Sim is to Google Earth.

A little game made by a few developers dicking around with the code of the base product, aimed purely at the existing userbase.

3Dmark Vantage is a piece of benchmarking software designed for benchmarking high end desktop rigs from 2008 and on. You are not part of the intended audience on all three counts, so how the fuck is it the game's fault that it doesn't do what you want it to do?

Bending over backwards to cater to nostalgia is the bane of technological advancement. What are developers supposed to do? Neuter any new engines to provide support for XP and contemporary hardware for all eternity? I haven't heard you while yet that your paragons of support, Source games don't work on Win 3.1, do I smell some myopia there?

Windows 3.1 is not a widely used operating system for gaming, XP is.

You're doing an excellent job at picking out words you can make a witty comeback to and completely ignoring the rest of the sentence they're in and other arguments altogether.

Edit: quotes messed up.

 

[Arachon]

Oh very well then here I go. I have made a thread making a valid point and requesting discussion. I stated my opinion at the start and then opened up the floor to debate. You have come into my thread with nothing but massive generalisations, insults and closed mindedness, assuming that everyone thinks the same way as you.

In future, please refrain from posting in serious discussions unless you have something relevant, understandable and most of all polite to add.

Here I am in disagreement, I do not think your point is "valid", as others have pointed out, Windows XP and DirectX 9 is 9 years old, it is time to move forward, Dx9 systems will be phased out, and users will be forced to upgrade, if they want to keep playing bleeding-edge games.

Now, I've followed Shattered Horizon even since the trailers appeared on Steam, I bought the game in December, and I've quite enjoyed it ever since. Not only are the visuals gorgeous, it is a very innovative game, with unique gameplay, and is a refreshing breath of air to the multiplayer FPS genre.

My problem with your post is that you have dismissed it as a crap game, by the old "graphics are good, ergo gameplay cannot be the same, due to lack of resources"-argument, which, honestly, doesn't hold together very well, in my opinion, SH is a remarkable game, especially considering it's the studios first.

I can understand your frustration, I too was a bit miffed when I saw the first trailers, and found out it was Dx10 only, but I upgraded my computer, and a good thing that is too, since the old one has started overheating constantly >_>

 

[Flames66]

Oh very well then here I go. I have made a thread making a valid point and requesting discussion. I stated my opinion at the start and then opened up the floor to debate. You have come into my thread with nothing but massive generalisations, insults and closed mindedness, assuming that everyone thinks the same way as you.

In future, please refrain from posting in serious discussions unless you have something relevant, understandable and most of all polite to add.

Here I am in disagreement, I do not think your point is "valid", as others have pointed out, Windows XP and DirectX 9 is 9 years old, it is time to move forward, Dx9 systems will be phased out, and users will be forced to upgrade, if they want to keep playing bleeding-edge games.

Now, I've followed Shattered Horizon even since the trailers appeared on Steam, I bought the game in December, and I've quite enjoyed it ever since. Not only are the visuals gorgeous, it is a very innovative game, with unique gameplay, and is a refreshing breath of air to the multiplayer FPS genre.

My problem with your post is that you have dismissed it as a crap game, by the old "graphics are good, ergo gameplay cannot be the same, due to lack of resources"-argument, which, honestly, doesn't hold together very well, in my opinion, SH is a remarkable game, especially considering it's the studios first.

I can understand your frustration, I too was a bit miffed when I saw the first trailers, and found out it was Dx10 only, but I upgraded my computer, and a good thing that is too, since the old one has started overheating constantly >_>

Good morning. Hopefully now it's a new day I can come back to this with a fresh mind.

I don't think the post you quoted here was directed at you.

Moving on, I agree with you that it has innovative ideas, I said so in my opening post. Those ideas are the reason I downloaded it without reading all of the system requirements, I was interested by them and wanted to give them a try. I managed to play the game for nearly an hour because those Ideas still interested me, in spite of my graphical problems.

Ultimately the problems proved to great for me to maintain enthusiasm for the innovation so I stopped playing. After that I created this thread, listed the events leading up to it and posed some questions for debate. I was accosted by instant rage and a flame war ensued. As the hostilities continued the tone of my posts became heated. So, I apologise to anyone I have angered by being to direct, cutting, snappy or caps locky.

 

[Flames66]

Oh very well then here I go. I have made a thread making a valid point and requesting discussion. I stated my opinion at the start and then opened up the floor to debate. You have come into my thread with nothing but massive generalisations, insults and closed mindedness, assuming that everyone thinks the same way as you.

In future, please refrain from posting in serious discussions unless you have something relevant, understandable and most of all polite to add.

Here I am in disagreement, I do not think your point is "valid", as others have pointed out, Windows XP and DirectX 9 is 9 years old, it is time to move forward, Dx9 systems will be phased out, and users will be forced to upgrade, if they want to keep playing bleeding-edge games.

Now, I've followed Shattered Horizon even since the trailers appeared on Steam, I bought the game in December, and I've quite enjoyed it ever since. Not only are the visuals gorgeous, it is a very innovative game, with unique gameplay, and is a refreshing breath of air to the multiplayer FPS genre.

My problem with your post is that you have dismissed it as a crap game, by the old "graphics are good, ergo gameplay cannot be the same, due to lack of resources"-argument, which, honestly, doesn't hold together very well, in my opinion, SH is a remarkable game, especially considering it's the studios first.

I can understand your frustration, I too was a bit miffed when I saw the first trailers, and found out it was Dx10 only, but I upgraded my computer, and a good thing that is too, since the old one has started overheating constantly >_>

Holy crap i had forgotten how hol XP was. I still remember getting Windiows 95 and being like "Finally! A can play decent games!". Shattered Horizon does not run on windows 95 either, niether do a fuck ton of games made for windows 98 just 3-5 years later. This has ALWAYS happened and always will happen and used to happen at a much faster rate.

Dx9 and XP have had an AMAZING run by operating systems stardards. Now you want to write off a very decent (and it is very decent) game becayse YOU failed to look at the system requirements?! I don't care if it's a free weekend, i wouldn't download Half life 2 on a free weekend using GeForce 2 series card Which is the equivelant of what you are doing. Your hardware is more than 3 years older than your game which is advertised as a graphical overload and made by a graphical benchmarking company!! Is this shit getting through to you Yet!!?!

To sun up; It's not Futuremark's fault, it's yours.

I did not have the problem with XP, that was the problem my friend had. I had the graphical overload problem with choppy lag.

This will be the last time I mention this so I'll put it in big text.

This thread is not here for the purpose of flaming the game, or its designers. I Personally think they should have made it more backwards compatible. This thread was to see what other people thought of that point of view. [/HEADING]

Apparently, other people think that my point of view is freakish and should be stamped out like a cockroach at a dinner party. That is their opinion and they are entitled to it, the same as I am entitled to disagree with it.

 

[TheComedown]

Oh very well then here I go. I have made a thread making a valid point and requesting discussion. I stated my opinion at the start and then opened up the floor to debate. You have come into my thread with nothing but massive generalisations, insults and closed mindedness, assuming that everyone thinks the same way as you.

In future, please refrain from posting in serious discussions unless you have something relevant, understandable and most of all polite to add.

Here I am in disagreement, I do not think your point is "valid", as others have pointed out, Windows XP and DirectX 9 is 9 years old, it is time to move forward, Dx9 systems will be phased out, and users will be forced to upgrade, if they want to keep playing bleeding-edge games.

Now, I've followed Shattered Horizon even since the trailers appeared on Steam, I bought the game in December, and I've quite enjoyed it ever since. Not only are the visuals gorgeous, it is a very innovative game, with unique gameplay, and is a refreshing breath of air to the multiplayer FPS genre.

My problem with your post is that you have dismissed it as a crap game, by the old "graphics are good, ergo gameplay cannot be the same, due to lack of resources"-argument, which, honestly, doesn't hold together very well, in my opinion, SH is a remarkable game, especially considering it's the studios first.

I can understand your frustration, I too was a bit miffed when I saw the first trailers, and found out it was Dx10 only, but I upgraded my computer, and a good thing that is too, since the old one has started overheating constantly >_>

Holy crap i had forgotten how hol XP was. I still remember getting Windiows 95 and being like "Finally! A can play decent games!". Shattered Horizon does not run on windows 95 either, niether do a fuck ton of games made for windows 98 just 3-5 years later. This has ALWAYS happened and always will happen and used to happen at a much faster rate.

Dx9 and XP have had an AMAZING run by operating systems stardards. Now you want to write off a very decent (and it is very decent) game becayse YOU failed to look at the system requirements?! I don't care if it's a free weekend, i wouldn't download Half life 2 on a free weekend using GeForce 2 series card Which is the equivelant of what you are doing. Your hardware is more than 3 years older than your game which is advertised as a graphical overload and made by a graphical benchmarking company!! Is this shit getting through to you Yet!!?!

To sun up; It's not Futuremark's fault, it's yours.

I did not have the problem with XP, that was the problem my friend had. I had the graphical overload problem with choppy lag.

This will be the last time I mention this so I'll put it in big text. (text size restored due to it being pointless in huge letters)

This thread is not here for the purpose of flaming the game, or its designers. I Personally think they should have made it more backwards compatible. This thread was to see what other people thought of that point of view.

Apparently, other people think that my point of view is freakish and should be stamped out like a cockroach at a dinner party. That is their opinion and they are entitled to it, the same as I am entitled to disagree with it.

But right there in the opening post you said

My opinion: Get it in the Bin!

Now that looks like a flame to me. Your op looked like nothing more then a cry that this game wouldn't run on your machine.

What do you think of the current trend for constantly expanding the graphics, at the expense of other aspects of gameplay and of lower end users?

Now you gave an example, you used the example of SH and then in your question you talked about graphics at the expense of gameplay, it certainly looked like you were trash talking SH.

You are quick to shut down all our opinions just cause they counter yours. Just cause most of us don't agree with you does not make our opinions any less valid.

 

[Flames66]

Now you gave an example, you used the example of SH and then in your question you talked about graphics at the expense of gameplay, it certainly looked like you were trash talking SH.

You are quick to shut down all our opinions just cause they counter yours. Just cause most of us don't agree with you does not make our opinions any less valid.

I was not "trash talking SH" (although I did metaphorically put it in the trash ^_^). I was merely using it as an example to illustrate my point.

I was not trying to shut down anyone's opinion, sorry if it came across like that. I did respond in a heated way to direct insults however.

 

[jason27131]

we insulted you in the first place because you came on the board to whine about how your pc can't run SH, and therefore SH must suck and the devs must suck for not supporting low-end machines and DX9. That, at least, is what your posts imply. This is why we flame you, because you're an arrogant idiot who refuses to upgrade, and then continues to complain about how you can't run the game. Like someone said before, no one on this board is going to sugar-coat their words, and neither am I.

 

[TheComedown]

Now you gave an example, you used the example of SH and then in your question you talked about graphics at the expense of gameplay, it certainly looked like you were trash talking SH.

You are quick to shut down all our opinions just cause they counter yours. Just cause most of us don't agree with you does not make our opinions any less valid.

I was not "trash talking SH" (although I did metaphorically put it in the trash ^_^). I was merely using it as an example to illustrate my point.

I was not trying to shut down anyone's opinion, sorry if it came across like that. I did respond in a heated way to direct insults however.

Did you not read my post? You where bad mouthing the game cause you couldnt run it, "metaphorically put it in the trash" is the same thing as trash talking and bitching about a game.

And what was your point? games should stop beefing up graphics

at the expense of other aspects of gameplay

in a game you your self admitted has a great premise, and others all through this thread have said that this game a great new twist on the old shooter genre.

 

[Hiphophippo]

I'm willing to agree that it would have been nice if this game was more backwards compatible but given who the game was made by it's not terribly surprising that it's not. But where should the line be drawn? Should XP be supported for the next 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

 

[Flames66]

Now you gave an example, you used the example of SH and then in your question you talked about graphics at the expense of gameplay, it certainly looked like you were trash talking SH.

You are quick to shut down all our opinions just cause they counter yours. Just cause most of us don't agree with you does not make our opinions any less valid.

I was not "trash talking SH" (although I did metaphorically put it in the trash ^_^). I was merely using it as an example to illustrate my point.

I was not trying to shut down anyone's opinion, sorry if it came across like that. I did respond in a heated way to direct insults however.

Did you not read my post? You where bad mouthing the game cause you couldnt run it, "metaphorically put it in the trash" is the same thing as trash talking and bitching about a game.

And what was your point? games should stop beefing up graphics

at the expense of other aspects of gameplay

in a game you your self admitted has a great premise, and others all through this thread have said that this game a great new twist on the old shooter genre.

We are just going over and over the same thing now. Unless there's something new posted then this thread is closed.

 

[Flames66]

I'm willing to agree that it would have been nice if this game was more backwards compatible but given who the game was made by it's not terribly surprising that it's not. But where should the line be drawn? Should XP be supported for the next 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

I don't have a definite answer for that question. I used the Steam user percentages earlier so I'll stick with them and say; when the combined percentage of people still using XP goes lower than 5%.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

The OP is off base here in a lot of ways, but he does have one point about Shattered Horizon; the scalability sucks. The lowest resolution it supports is 1024X768, and with all the settings on low, it still looks better than anything Pixar did before Toy Story. I get an average of 8-10 frames per second with this all the way on low. If I could take it down to 1024X600, like pretty much every other game since the advent of widescreen monitors, I could probably get the extra 5 of so frames per second I need to make it playable. If the options on the other parameters didn't stop at what would be medium in any other game, I could probably get it up to 17-20 FPS, and really do some playing. For comparison, Crysis in DirectX 10 on the lowest settings averages 40-45 frames per second on my rig. Shattered Horizon seems to be a great game, but they really blew it on the options for people who's graphics card isn't a relatively recent top end model.

 

[jason27131]

so? They didn't make the game for low-end users. Once again, the game is based off A BENCHMARKING ENGINE. They never advertised it to low-end users, nor did they program it for low-end users. Futuremark's users were NEVER low-end users, so I don't see why they want to cater to them now.

 

[Diligent]

It just occurred to me, no one has actually answered the questions I posed in the starting post. It was not my intention to start a flame war, just a discussion. Maybe it was a mistake to state my opinion on the matter first. Here are the questions again for anyone who is interested:

So here's the discussion. What do you think of the current trend for constantly expanding the graphics, at the expense of other aspects of gameplay and of lower end users?
Also what do you think of Shattered Horizon?

I'll answer your question!

I think the trend of constantly expanding graphics are not as bad as it could be or has been. Technology is really being held back by the consoles this gaming generation. I remember the lightning fast transition from 2d, to 3d, to open GL, to coloured lighting, 3 polygon noses on characters, to more fully formed noses, etc.
There are really only 3 games that I can think of that won't run on windows XP, and those are Halo 2 (because Microsoft is retarded and they wanted to sell Vista), Just Cause 2, and Shattered Horizon, which seems like a techdemo. Pretty good considering windows XP's age.
Things are going to move forward and backwards compatibility with PC gaming isn't really an option. Developers have enough trouble getting games to work on the broad spectrum of systems we have, let alone trying to make it compatible with things that are over 5 years old.

I don't think the advancement of graphics does completely destroy gameplay. Call me crazy, but I liked Crysis. Sure it's not the best game, but I thought it was fun.
But it's sort of like with movies. You have a big blockbuster movies. You have shit like Transformers, or Terminatior Salvation. Next thing you know, the little guys can do it too, and you get a fantastic movie like District 9 that blends technology that is in place, and puts some thought behind it too.

And since you've mentioned the source engine quite a bit, remember that was at one point a system killer too. I went and bought a new machine for Half-life 2. Now a lot of things that were made popular there are in tons of games, like integrated physics, facial animations etc.

And as far as Shattered Horizons: Dunno, haven't played it. I've got XP!

 

[Hiphophippo]

I'm willing to agree that it would have been nice if this game was more backwards compatible but given who the game was made by it's not terribly surprising that it's not. But where should the line be drawn? Should XP be supported for the next 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

I don't have a definite answer for that question. I used the Steam user percentages earlier so I'll stick with them and say; when the combined percentage of people still using XP goes lower than 5%.

Is there any real reason not to upgrade? For some I suppose money is a reason but do you expect billion dollar companies to not make newer and fancier games simply because some people refuse to upgrade for whatever reason?

 

[Rusty Bucket]

This thread is not here for the purpose of flaming the game, or its designers. I Personally think they should have made it more backwards compatible. This thread was to see what other people thought of that point of view. [/HEADING]

So why does the OP consist almost entirely of you complaining about the game and condemning the developers? If you wanted to talk about the effects graphics have on gaming, you should have made that the point of your post, using SH as an example. People are only responding to what you posted. If you don't like the replies, then it's your fault for not making yourself clear from the start.

Oh, and being excited about a PC game is not an excuse to not check system requirements. Unless you were so excited you had an aneurysm and lost all common sense. You should know by now that PC games will not run using the power of positive thinking, unless you're a monumental idiot.

 

[Flames66]

I'm willing to agree that it would have been nice if this game was more backwards compatible but given who the game was made by it's not terribly surprising that it's not. But where should the line be drawn? Should XP be supported for the next 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

I don't have a definite answer for that question. I used the Steam user percentages earlier so I'll stick with them and say; when the combined percentage of people still using XP goes lower than 5%.

Is there any real reason not to upgrade? For some I suppose money is a reason but do you expect billion dollar companies to not make newer and fancier games simply because some people refuse to upgrade for whatever reason?

I have upgraded because my laptop came with Windows 7. There are many reasons people do not upgrade. I refused to use Vista for the first year or so because It was not stable.

The reason that my friend has not yet upgraded is that he intends to replace his entire machine with a laptop similar to mine, but does not currently have the funds.

 

[jason27131]

Look, we don't really give a shit what the reason why you don't want to upgrade is. Bottom line is, if you don't upgrade, you won't able to play the game. IF you don't want to upgrade, then don't come crying about how you can't run the game and that it's an injustice.