Shin Megami Tensei: I can't figure out core games vs spin-offs

[Yoshi4102]

So I've played SMT IV on the 3ds and fucking loved it. I love the themes, I love the demons, I love the chaos and uncertainty of the world. After beating it I decided to try it out from its roots with the English patch for SMT 1 on the SNES. I assumed it wouldn't have aged very well, but I'm about 5-6 hours in and I'm loving the hell out of it! Now that I'm hooked I want to play the core games in their entirety from start to finish, problem is, I'm really confused on which ones are actually part of the main story line.

I'm aware that even some of the spin-offs are sort of important to the story after reading a bit about them and seeing the links to SMT IV, but what is actually important and in what order should I play them?

Any help would be awesome!

 

[SmallHatLogan]

While I'm not an expert it's probably important to know that a lot of the games that are branded Shin Megami Tense in the west aren't in Japan (although they're still a part of the franchise).

The wiki [http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei_%28Series%29] has a list of the main SMT games and the direct spinoffs. Series like Persona and Digital Devil Saga aren't on the list because they don't carry the SMT brand in Japan and aren't considered "mainline" SMT games. Interestingly the first Devil Summoner game has SMT in the title but the sequels don't. Not sure why

Sorry, not a lot of detail but it gives you somewhere to start.

 

[Yoshi4102]

While I'm not an expert it's probably important to know that a lot of the games that are branded Shin Megami Tense in the west aren't in Japan (although they're still a part of the franchise).

The wiki [http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei_%28Series%29] has a list of the main SMT games and the direct spinoffs. Series like Persona and Digital Devil Saga aren't on the list because they don't carry the SMT brand in Japan and aren't considered "mainline" SMT games. Interestingly the first Devil Summoner game has SMT in the title but the sequels don't. Not sure why

Sorry, not a lot of detail but it gives you somewhere to start.

Thanks, that IS a good place to start. At least I know now Digital Devil Saga aren't considered mainline spin-offs. I'm just still unsure of which spinoffs to play before Nocturne and which to play after.

 

[SmallHatLogan]

Well, regarding the direct spin offs I think only Strange Journey, Imagine (the MMO) and three of the four Devil Summoner games were released in the west. And I don't think any of the others even have fan translations (although there is a translation of SMT if... in the works). Also the North American Imagine servers were shut down fairly recently.

Pretty sure Strange Journey comes after Nocturne.

I was doing a bit of research because you got me curious and the general consensus among fans seems to be that the Raidou Kuzonoha games (the third and fourth Devil Summoner games released but they're prequels) are the earliest in the SMT timeline. Then it has multiple endings, on of which can lead on to SMT 1, 2 etc, and another which leads on to SMT if.. and then on to the Persona series.

I came across this fan made timeline which includes SMT, Devil Summoner and Persona (but is missing strange journey):

Spoiler

(pretty sure the bottom right is supposed to say SMT II)

Persona can definitely be played stand alone though.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

The only games that ACTUALLY connect to eacother are Persona 2: Eternal Punishment and Innocent Sin, Persona 3 & 4 (Loosely) and the Persona Fighting Games (which actually tie the two togeteher), The Devil Summoner Series and Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2.

So basically SMT doesn't have an "actual" timeline but if you're looking for games like SMT4 in the series I'd go with SMT 3: Nocturne, SMT: Strange Journey, and SMT: Soul Hackers. Also if you don't mind Strategy RPG's "Devil Survivor: Overclocked" is really excellent.

The Persona Series and the Digital Devil Saga Series are "kind of" their own things, DDS is exceedingly strange Sci-Fi with some completely off the wall mythic twists and a more "standard" JRPG take on the Press Turn System and Persona 3 & 4 are Highschool Comedies with regular intrusions of dungeon crawling.

 

[Exhuminator]

I'm just still unsure of which spinoffs to play before Nocturne and which to play after.

You should save Nocturne for last, no matter what. Nocturne is the ne plus ultra of the series. Every other SMT you play post-Nocturne will be, "It was good, but it wasn't Nocturne."

 

[shrekfan246]

You're probably confused because there isn't really any "main" storyline to follow.

None of the games are actually connected plotwise, at least as far as I'm aware. They all share similar themes and whatnot and occasionally reference earlier games, but there's very little you'll miss by playing Nocturne without having played Devil Summoner 2 or Persona 4, for example.

Sorry, I'm probably not going to be very helpful and might as well not even make this post, because I'm a person who generally doesn't concern himself with "canon" when I can help it. If it's not explicitly stated, then it doesn't really matter, and occasionally even when it is it doesn't matter either. For instance, when the theories about the timeline of The Legend of Zelda were flying around and became so overblown that Nintendo just said "Eff it, here you go, make something out of this!" Why can't people just enjoy The Legend of Zelda without needing to cross-reference the exact date A Link to the Past took place when compared to Ocarina of Time and some weird alternate universe split off based on Link never defeating Ganondorf? I don't get it.

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

The only games that ACTUALLY connect to eacother are Persona 2: Eternal Punishment and Innocent Sin, Persona 3 & 4 (Loosely) and the Persona Fighting Games (which actually tie the two togeteher), The Devil Summoner Series and Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2.

Persona 1 and 2 connect to each other, as well. Cast members from the original Persona show up in the second and I don't just mean Igor and Philemon. Also, Shin Megami Tensei II is a direct sequel to the original.

The Persona Series and the Digital Devil Saga Series are "kind of" their own things, DDS is exceedingly strange Sci-Fi with some completely off the wall mythic twists and a more "standard" JRPG take on the Press Turn System and Persona 3 & 4 are Highschool Comedies with regular intrusions of dungeon crawling.

I wouldn't call P3 & 4 comedies, either, though they're definitely lighthearted as far as SMT goes (especially 4).

But yeah, most of the games have no real connection to each other. With the exception of Digital Devil Saga, even the games that ARE connected to one another are standalone plots that don't have any set "order" that you should play them in.


There are references and allusions to SMT I and II in Nocturne, IV and Digital Devil Saga but it's really nothing more than fanservice. Nocturne's plot opens up the possibility of a multiverse in which all the games are connected but there's really no over-arching plot, just recurring themes.

 

[Yoshi4102]

snip

Well, that surely is interesting. In all honesty I didn't even think of the Persona games as being directly related at all besides being loosely based or something (never played them). Bummer Strange journey isn't in there though, the devil summoning suits are what really have me interested due to making an appearance in SMT IV. I didn't realized how non-linear the story line was though.

You're probably confused because there isn't really any "main" storyline to follow.

None of the games are actually connected plotwise, at least as far as I'm aware. They all share similar themes and whatnot and occasionally reference earlier games, but there's very little you'll miss by playing Nocturne without having played Devil Summoner 2 or Persona 4, for example.

Sorry, I'm probably not going to be very helpful and might as well not even make this post, because I'm a person who generally doesn't concern himself with "canon" when I can help it. If it's not explicitly stated, then it doesn't really matter, and occasionally even when it is it doesn't matter either. For instance, when the theories about the timeline of The Legend of Zelda were flying around and became so overblown that Nintendo just said "Eff it, here you go, make something out of this!" Why can't people just enjoy The Legend of Zelda without needing to cross-reference the exact date A Link to the Past took place when compared to Ocarina of Time and some weird alternate universe split off based on Link never defeating Ganondorf? I don't get it.

I know exactly what you mean about trying to find a timeline where there is none, I LOVE Zelda but don't give a damn about the timeline. Now that there's an official one I still don't even care and haven't even looked at it. I'm actually a bit sad that they're trying to keep some continuity because I just don't think of Zelda in that way. In this case I know that there were lots of references in SMT IV that I didn't get due to not playing earlier titles so I just wanted to go though the more important ones.


So what I take from this is: Play them all but save Nocturne for last because it's THAT good.

 

[shrekfan246]

So what I take from this is: Play them all but save Nocturne for last because it's THAT good.

Pretty much.

I'd add the qualifier that you should also mentally prepare yourself for the challenge Nocturne offers (as well as the other SMT games, of course), but if you're already a good few hours into the very first one I think you're probably already quite well equipped for the franchise.

I don't think you can really go wrong with any of the entries, spin-off or main-series, personally. I've not played them all myself, but I've never really heard any of them called "bad".

 

[Exhuminator]

save Nocturne for last because it's THAT good.

Yes.

I know this sounds hyperbolic, but Nocturne kind of ruined JRPGs for me. Sure, I still love JRPGs and play them all the time... but nothing since has blown me away like that one did. It's the best JRPG I've ever played, and that's coming from a fan of the genre since 1988.

 

[Yoshi4102]

but if you're already a good few hours into the very first one I think you're probably already quite well equipped for the franchise.

Yeah, the first game kinda has a bit of a difficulty cliff. Every time I think I'm ready to move on to the next area I get massacred and have to mentally prepare myself again. Funny thing is I'm actually really bad at RPGs in general but something about these ones I just really like.

I know this sounds hyperbolic, but Nocturne kind of ruined JRPGs for me. Sure, I still love JRPGs and play them all the time... but nothing since has blown me away like that one did. It's the best JRPG I've ever played, and that's coming from a fan of the genre since 1988.

I don't know if my body is ready.

Btw, thanks everyone you've been really helpful!

 

[Someone Depressing]

Due to the fact that western fans have no idea that Persona 3 was a sequel, or that Avatar Tuner isn't an SMT game, or Devil Survivor (oh, I'm sorry, Deba Sabaiba Wan.. I hate you Japan) among many others, Atlus do this to promote the franchise's name in the west because it's not that well known (Persona is. Not SMT).

Here's just one series/spin-off:
Shin Megami Tensei: ...If, a collection of two games, If... and Hazama's Chapter, take place before SMT 1, and also as a kind of "what if" situation. In it, Tamaki - the first female protagonist of the series, who also makes an appearance in Persona: Revelations/Ibonroku and Persona 2: IS+ET - and her classmates are stuck in the demon world. It started off as a point for the Persona series, the characters being gaurded by beings of the ethereal realm, which would later evolve into the concept of "Personas" in alter games.

With this also came the Summoner series, which consists of four games: Summoner, Raidou 1+2 (only SMT in the west) and Soul Hackers (which was recently re-released for the 3DS, for those interested. It's a great game. Also an unfair one) and from there, turned into the quaint little game more known for having a shitty localisation than its actual quality, Ibonroku, also known to the west as Persona: Revelations.

The "Revelations" part was actually what SMT was known in as the west... Last Bible, various little games, and possibly the quickly-scrapped localisation of Majin Tensei (Hoo boy, that's a whole 'nother 3 paragraphs)...

Honestly, go to this wiki [megamitensei.wikia.com/‎] which mostly contains info about the games only released in the west because Atlus hates its fans.

Edit: Honestly, it doesn't matter what order you play the games in. Seriously, just keep Nocturne for last, the Devil Survivor (DEBA SABAIBA) games are pretty heard to get into (like being beaten with a block of cement. A great tone-setter for the series: God is evil and paganisn is actually a red-neck christianity, which is actually true, and UH OH DIFFICULTY SPIKE) and have some very good pieces of art by the author of Durara... pretty much every corner of the franchise appeals to someone.

Just keep Nocturne for last. If you want a taste of Nocturne without ruining it, the Avatar Tuner games (SMT in the west) are a great starting point.

Edit Edit: There's a compilation of 1+2, based on novels by a pervert (a girl gets raped by Loki in the form of a slime. Another has sex with Loki and bears his child. The first girl is naked on most covers... Think about Loki; atleast 8 foot, purple, fanservice-y...) were ported to the SNES under the name of Kyuyaku Megami Tensei (If I'm right, it means something like "The Godly Tales of My Classmate", though don't take my linguistically-challenged word for it. Megami Tensei means "tales of the goddess", and "kyuyaku" means classmate, so its actual meaning is up to interpretation). Play those first, mostly due to the fact that they're the first game in which you could actually capture enemies and use them as allies in the form of a monster-catching games.

Then, Pokemon did it. Except it wasn't educational, and it was simplified as hell.

Then Atlus did Pokemon and I think they did it better... mostly. The Devil Children series arrised, and it introduced many younger fans to the franchise. Against, Revalations/SMT in the west.

Honestly, my favourite part of the whole franchise is the first SMT game, the only area you're not attacked. I don't know if it's reverse psychology, or the fact that I'm not being attacked every 2 steps.. but it scared the hell out of me. "Wow, I moved through a room without leveling up atleast three times... something's wrong..."

 

[deserteagleeye]

This guy explains it well, it does get a bit confusing.
I especially like the idea that every possible ending in every game is cannon and exists in a different universe and may or may not be followed up by a sequel like many have already.

 

[Boogie Knight]

SMT I and II, Nocturne. Nocturne was the first one in the core series to come to North America, and SMT I is finally getting ported... to goddamn Apple's products. The core elements are: Demon invasion, Tokyo, some variation of the Gaea Cult and Order of Messiah. Everything else is a spin off, and that's not a slight, it's just the simplest explanation. Theoretically, all the games share in a multiverse where everything that can happen does happen, but for the purposes of enjoying the games don't get too hung up on trying to create a single, cohesive timeline (even though the internet will try because it's the kind of thing the internet does).

 

[Rozalia1]

The only games that ACTUALLY connect to eacother are Persona 2: Eternal Punishment and Innocent Sin, Persona 3 & 4 (Loosely) and the Persona Fighting Games (which actually tie the two togeteher), The Devil Summoner Series and Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2.

So basically SMT doesn't have an "actual" timeline but if you're looking for games like SMT4 in the series I'd go with SMT 3: Nocturne, SMT: Strange Journey, and SMT: Soul Hackers. Also if you don't mind Strategy RPG's "Devil Survivor: Overclocked" is really excellent.

The Persona Series and the Digital Devil Saga Series are "kind of" their own things, DDS is exceedingly strange Sci-Fi with some completely off the wall mythic twists and a more "standard" JRPG take on the Press Turn System and Persona 3 & 4 are Highschool Comedies with regular intrusions of dungeon crawling.

No. The second SMT is a sequel to SMT one set...looking at the wiki 40 to 60 years after the first game.
In terms of "core games" it begins with those two. Nocturne is also a core game however while in the same timeline as the first two due to reasons that happen after the ending of SMT2 it is no longer the same universe.
Strange Journey and 4 are also core games...but I don't know how they relate (not actually got round to playing 4 yet). SMT IF is a game I don't remember much of as I've never played it personally, only having watched a screenshot lets play that translated the dialogue.

Devil Summoner and its all related games seem to be set in the past of the main SMT timeline due to the existence of the main villain of Vs The Soulless Army, and some NPCs in the final dungeon from SMT1 + 2 referencing the likes of Thorman for example.

So OP SMT1, SMT2, and SMT Nocturne/Lucifer's call is what you're looking for at least to start with. All the spins offs are good also definitely, however they all pretty much end happily unlike the first 3 SMTs which all end badly ultimately due to just who the big bad is (I assume you know already).

 

[Strain42]

As far as games officially available in English goes, this is what we have. I'll separate them by series.

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne (aka SMT3), Strange Journey, SMTIV, and SMTI was released for iOS

Persona: Revelations Persona (a horribly localized version of P1), and the faithful PSP port simply titled Persona, Innocent Sin for the PSP, Eternal Punishment for the PSX/PSN (IS and EP make up Persona 2) P3 (Original, FES, and P3P) Persona 4 (and Golden for the Vita) Persona 4 Arena (a fighting game) and note Persona 4 Arena Ultimax (the sequel) Persona Q: Shadow of the Labyrinth (a crossover between 3 and 4 for the 3DS), Persona 4: Dancing All Night (a dancing game set after P4) and Persona 5 have not been released yet, but confirmed for localization.

Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers for the 3DS, and then the two Raidou games (Soulless Army and King Abaddon)

Digital Devil Saga 1&2: Fairly stand alone titles, with the only major reference being the protagonist of Nocturne as an optional boss.

Devil Survivor: the first one and its enhanced port, Overclocked, 2 for the DS and is supposed to be getting an enhanced port called Break Record, but this has been continually delayed in Japan.

MISC: Jack Brothers for the Virtual Boy, DemiKids Light and Dark versions (basically MegaTen trying to be closer to Pokemon) Revelations: The Demon Sklayer for the GBC (known in Japan as Last Bible)

And that's basically every MegaTen game to ever be officially released in English.

Almost all of the series can be kept pretty separate from each other. Shin Megami Tensei itself is a spin-off of the original Megami Tensei games, none of which have been localized. One of the SMT games, SMT: if... is considered a Gaiden game of the series and that's the game that probably went on to create most of the other spin-offs. For example, Tamaki Uchida, a character from P1 and P2 is the female protagonist of if... and P2 also connects to the Devil Summoner series through the Kuzunoha Detective Agency.

But really, most titles can just be enjoyed on their own merits. Nocturne has this thing called the Amala Universe that basically makes it so every game from every series and even every outcome (like the non-canon bad endings of certain games) is a real part of the overall Megami Tensei franchise.

Okay, now I'm going to say the thing that might make me lose some friends here. I'm seeing a LOT of over the top praise for Nocturne here, but speaking as a long time MegaTen fan, I personally thought it was pretty boring, and the gameplay feels pretty dated once you play newer titles (DDS basically has the same gameplay, but better)

Now if you enjoy Nocturne, that's great. I'm just seeing people say stuff like it's the high point of the entire franchise and it will dull the experience of all other JRPGs for you. And if it did that for them, fine. If it does that for you, fine. But I know my MegaTen pretty well and I personally find Nocturne kind of underwhelming in the overall franchise. I just would hate to see you get too hyped up for it and feel disappointed if it doesn't deliver what some of the people here promise.

So if you are really interesting in playing as many MegaTen games as possible and even if you do decide to save Nocturne for last, that's all well and good, just maybe keep yourself grounded in reality that it might not be the most amazing MegaTen experience you have. I mean you might, but I certainly didn't.