Shiver Me Timbers! (or, a discussion about Pirates of the Caribbean)

[Hawki]

Shiver my timbers, shiver my...oh, wait. Sorry. Wrong movie. Least I got it correct geographically.

Anyway, I'd hoped to have seen Dead Men Tell No Tales this year, but missed out on it, and given current work circumstances (long story), I won't be able to see as many films as I'd like to when compared to 2016. But, with PotC being brought up in the Matrix thread, I'd like to see if there's any insight to be gained here.

Because, like The Matrix, PotC has always been a case of one very solid first film being turned into a trilogy of...not as good films, when then became a pentalogy. Basically, it's a story of decline. Which is kind of a shame, because a video I watched ages ago brought up something interesting - we don't get many adventure films nowadays (e.g. Indiana Jones), certainly not 'pure' adventure at least. But, well, if we're going to get adventure films, they may as well be good ones.

So, on that note:

1) Curse of the Black Pearl

Absolute delight to watch. Not high art, not excellent, just a good, enjoyable film that stood on its own and gave the world Jack Sparrow. Simple, clean fun.

2) Dead Man's Chest

Y'know what? I like this film. Like the first film, it gets a stamp of "good," but it isn't as good. But still good. I appreciate the darker tone, the film is nothing if not imaginative (the take on Jones and The Flying Dutchman, the kraken, etc.), and, well, yeah. It doesn't feel as tight as its predecessor, but overall, I'd say it's decent.

3) At World's End

The point where things get bloated. Bloated in terms of worldbuilding (apparently there's a pirate court or something), bloated in terms of run-time, bloated in terms of special effects (the final battle), bloated in terms of how nothing...really...happens. I dunno. Of all the films I've seen in the series, this one feels like it's trying to be the most serious, and it just doesn't work. It also kind of retroactively taints Dead Man's Chest for me somehow. But, hey, it at least ended the trilogy, right? Not that this needed to be a trilogy, but, well, it stopped, right? Right?

4) On Stranger Tides

No it didn't. And I wish it did. Because this film is boring. At World's End was a bloated, convoluted mess, but it was a mess that had at least some enjoyment to it. On Stranger Tides is smaller, feels smaller, and feels less impactful. I don't know how you make Blackbeard, the Fountain of Life, and mermaids boring, but somehow this film managed it.

Bear in mind, neither films 3 or 4 are outright bad in my mind, but, well, yeah. And, to be frank, I'm not expecting much deviation from this view on the series, but discussion is welcomed, especially thoughts on film 5 (I'm fine with spoilers, I've looked up Wikipedia), and whether the series can/should continue. To be frank, I think you could have a PotC film without any of the previous characters in it, as long as the time period and style are kept. It's certainly got an expansive EU that one could draw from.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I loved At World's End because of how "Bloated" it was.

The movie was a set piece masterpiece. It may not be coherent but I fun with it regardless.

Infact alot of the awesome things in At World's End could have fit perfectly in One Piece.

 

[iwinatlife]

For me I really liked 3. It is one of my overall favorite movies. The Maelstrom scene is cool to me especially because the ships were actual full size and filmed in a giant building so large the cast and crew needed golf carts to move around.

 

[Thaluikhain]

For me, it's "eh", "meh", "meh", "mermaids", and "Christ, that guy still has a career?"

 

[CrazyGirl17]

I liked "At World's End", though that just might be due to my own weird tastes. The first film is still the best, it's simple with few - if any - side plots, and no confusing alliance shifts.

"Dead Man's Chest", to me, is just... okay. Didn't like it as much as the other two. Never saw to rest of the later movies, either.

 

[09philj]

To quote my favourite film critic:
"Pirates one was bad, Pirates two was worse, Pirates 3 was a crime against cinema, Pirates four was just dull"

 

[Casual Shinji]

I hated every Pirates movie.

Both Orlando Bloom and Keira Knightly were wet blankets, and it signaled the decent of Johnny Depp. Can you believe he was actually nominated for an Academy Award for that performance? Not Edward Scissorhands, not Ed Wood, not Donnie Brasco, but fucking Jack Sparrow. *shudder*

Shit only got worse as it went on. The first film -- as garbage as it was -- at least kept the plot straight. Then with every following sequel (the ones I saw anyway) the plot got more convoluted and stupid. All of a sudden Keira has the hots for Depp's character, but then not anymore, I guess. Then this character is actually working for them who then betrays someone else, then Keira is the pirate queen cuz why not and gives a limp speech in her flimsy girl voice. God, Gore Verbinski sucks.

The only good thing about this oogie franchise was the design of Davy Jones.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

PotC... (the first one) If there's anything that can be railed against it, it's that it's been played too damn much! When it came out, people were watching it everywhere non-stop, including me. And it's now sadly to the point where I'm just tired of it. I didn't make the same mistake with PotC 2 and 3 though. 2 is very interesting to see and I think it's a great sequel, although there's no denying it does feel different from PotC. I don't know exactly what it is, but it is different. Perhaps it's because PotC 1 was more of a "isolated" story whereas PotC 2/3 have whole government factions and corporations now involved. PotC was more personal but 2/3 dealt with conflicts on a large scale.

PotC 3 was awesome. I don't care what anybody says. Everyone was saying the plot was too bloated but honestly, so you had to use your brain a little. You guys are seriously gonna complain about that? Furthermore, although perhaps it was a heavy-handed way of doing it, the purpose for all these 5 minute alliances and last minute backstabs is because the movie is trying to illustrate the fear everyone has. Everyone's trying to survive, and many, even Will Turner, are turning on each other just so they can accomplish their goals. Even Beckett makes commentary on this. BTW, Beckett's one of the best movie villains I've ever seen. He doesn't get enough credit.

And finally, one of the biggest reasons I like PotC is because of it's end message of unity and freedom in the face of huge odds. Perhaps it's a little whimsical. But then, so are undead pirates. People need heroes, fictional or otherwise. People and ideas to look up to and rally around. And I fear before too long, we're gonna need those as a society more than ever...

So hoist the colors.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I was never a fan.
1st movie was passable, 2nd movie was boring, 3rd movie was even more boring, 4th movie was whatever and so is number 5.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I love the first movie. I will watch that one over and over again when I want a fun movie. I stay away from two and three because they were too dark, tried to do too much, and just didn't have the same charm and whimsy feel of the first one. I own them, but they're just not fun to watch for me.

The fourth one was kind of a step back toward the first one for me, but it was still nowhere near it. Still, more enjoyable than two and three.

So I thought this new one would continue the trend of slowly getting back to being good. No. Just...no. It's just boring. Everyone is just going through the motions in this new one. Even Captain Jack, who at least has funny moments in all the other films, is just...there. It wasn't fun, it wasn't exciting, it wasn't anything. It was just paste, in the worst possible sense of the word. A favorite reviewer of mine said, "Seriously, don't even bother with this one" and I fully agree. The only redeeming moment is the scene at the end of the movie for long-term fans of the series.

 

[Saelune]

I have seen the first 3. I guess because I have nothing to lose on them, they never bother me. I mean, I know they are bad as I watch them, but its not like its a film adaptation of something I care about (Marvel), nor a new major entry into a universe I love (Star Wars), nor is it something my brother is hyping (Disney movies).

And when I go to the movies, I usually dont have to pay (as its usually a family affair) and I get a burger to eat, and I love that part no matter what.

 

[maninahat]

First was a big fun bag of fresh ideas. Second was inoffensive but naff, despite having a filthy looking Naomi Harris. Third was terrible despite having Keira Knightley thighgasming. Fourth was a mess, despite having Penelope Cruz with a moustache. Not even seen the last.

 

[WolfThomas]

How does a film fuck up Blackbeard played by Ian Mcshane?

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

To quote my favourite film critic:
"Pirates one was bad, Pirates two was worse, Pirates 3 was a crime against cinema, Pirates four was just dull"

The Red Letter Media Guys?

 

[American Fox]

I liked them all, I love the LEGO game.

Stranger Tides was based on an old book.

With a lack of pirate movies at all, I was happy with these. And Cutthroat Island was amazing.

I hope they make a new LEGO game for the new one.

After all that being said, I haven't gotten around to seeing the new one yet. I'm on a horror movie binge. The Void was boring and XX was so dumb. Like, V/H/S 2 dumb.

 

[Squilookle]

I'm sorry but there is only one PotC as far as I'm concerned. The rest can go and eat one. Also you call 3 bloated? Are you forgetting that completely unrelated 45 minutes of island nonsense in DMC in which literally [in]nothing[/i] happens?

 

[American Fox]

To me, the first movie has one of the most unique characters I have ever seen. James Norrington. He is playing a character I usually call The Suitor. He is usually in authority, approved by the father to marry the love interest. He is usually corrupt, ugly, old, or some combination of these. Norrington is none of these. He is just, deals calmly with Will, his rival, and tries to protect the men under his command instead of using them as fodder, and never goes behind the back of the governor. He even puts himself on the front lines many times and protects others. He is ambitious without it being destructive, like it usually is for The Suitor. He even steps aside for Will at the end, and lets Jack go from his execution because he knows its fair.

This comes back to bite him in the second movie, as his career and self worth is ruined. I like this because it shows that the fairytale ending from the first movie had consequences and you can't just let a prisoner caught and tried so publicly go like that. He tries at several points to get vengeance, even through murder. He starts to sober up and see himself and only hates. All he can see is rage. Then he betrays everyone and steals the letters of marque from Elizabeth, who he once loved, although he doesn't try to harm her, he just makes a plan to take them when he has a chance. You can even see this on his face when he is listening in the background. He then takes the heart to rebuild his life.

In the third movie you can see he realizes what he has done, he is sent out to execute many people without trial, the military being used to destroy. He suspects the murder of Governor Swan, the man he pledged loyalty to, the man who promoted him again and again based on his work and character. (This isn't projecting, you can see his facial expressions in many scenes, his acting is so good.) He begins to see the people he aligned himself as the monsters they are, and even sacrifices his life to help the protangonists one last time.

He has a huge arc over the trilogy and doesn't fall into the tropes of his character archetype. That being a man of the law doesn't restrict you from doing what is right.

And no one notices this.

 

[FalloutJack]

I liked them, actually, and - also - my sister is a fan of Johnny Depp.

 

[American Fox]

Marty is another great character, and I love the tiny arc they give to Murtogg and Mullroy. I could go on and on about how every actor gives a good performance for their characters, at least the way I see them. It feels like each person has a backstory, but you don't need to see them all. Even Sao Feng's bodyguards, Lian and Park, feel like they have an interesting history. You can feel the rage when one dies in the others arms. The LEGO game even gives them their movie weapons, the whip and the sword.

These movies are a lot better than what people give them credit for.

EDIT: Again: If you go back and rewatch them, even for fun, pay closer attention to Norrington, even when he's not talking, watch his face and body language. Even when he's just to the side in a scene.

My anal-sis of Norrington is, like, two posts up.

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

My brothers are crazy about them and everyone in my family loves the first one... which is why I was so surprised to find that they disliked the 5th for 'corrupting the lore' when I felt it managed to get more wind in its sails than it had since Dead Man's Chest. Tiny things like giving Jack's compass an original story when Tia Dalma said that she gave it to him bother them.

Textbook case of sequel stagnation really, but I especially liked the first two, especially the character of Davey Jones. I even designed a CCG based on the first three films and I gathered enough dice/printed a rulebook for Liar's Dice.

I always thought the finale (and that had better damn well be the finale, they pushed their luck a few leagues too far already) would have the spectre of Hernando Cortez as the villain instead of an original character. I went into it expecting Captain Teague's dramatic death by the villain to get Jack emotionally invested in the plot for once, and hoping for more young Jack background. I got some, but I also see what people mean when they'd prefer him to be the enigmatic wild card.

Surely Jack understood that he was unique among pirates, that most of his kind were loathsome bastards who didn't mind slavery, rape and murder like he did? He just seemed to want to be able to explore as he wished as the Pearl's captain, merely bearing the label of 'pirate'. Was it all just a desire to be a famous pirate legend like his dad? We will never know.

Spoiler: At least he was more productive than these lazy scallywags

(Raises a mug of rum) To freedom!