Should Every Game Allow You to Choose Your Gender?

[bojac6]

"If it turns out it fits in in the category of games with fully characterized protagonists instead of a game where you're just playing an avatar to complete puzzles, thats entirely irrelevant to the discussion of whether games should be more inclusive."

This whole sentence (run-on as it is) is quite bigoted. It seems like you yourself are looking at gender, conscience, reality, sex and being as something that can be defined by a few pixels and so-called characterisation.

I ask you again - is the Engineer in Risk of Rain a man or a woman? Can you tell? Does it matter?

How is that sentence bigoted? In what way?

I don't know the game, so I can't tell you. Is the Engineer just a block of pixels that is the player avatar? Then no, it doesn't matter at all, because the Engineer isn't a character, it's just a block of pixels.

But if the Engineer has dialogue and motives of his/her own, then the Engineer is a character and then it does matter, if for nothing else than context.

"It seems like you yourself are looking at gender, conscience, reality, sex and being as something that can be defined by a few pixels and so-called characterisation."

You have that backwards. A character, one that has literary merit and can actually be called a character, is defined by all that you list, and I would definitely add motivation to the list. That's what makes a character interesting and compelling instead of just a block of pixels, or a jumble of text. It's the difference between Oliver Twist and Twilight. Games as a whole are unique in that the protagonist can be completely uncharacterized, because their motivation and characteristics are supplied by the player.

 

[SecondPrize]

No. Fuck no. We don't make the games. We can decide if we'll buy them or not and if this is a deal-breaker for you then go for not. That's how it fucking works, you prove there's a market for something and people will deliver. Should developers have to include options for a female character because some want them to? No. Will developers include options for female characters because some want them to. Yes, many will. Support those devs that make the games you want, don't attack the devs who don't make games as you feel they should.

 

[eberhart]

And would the story of the Witcher really change much beyond pronouns if Geralt was a woman?

Geralt could not have the same personality as a female, or it simply wouldn't fit. The relationships with other characters and the relationship dynamics and motivations wouldn't be the same,

I am not seeing non-Geralt being a protagonist in Witcher/Witcher 2 story, his gender being irrelevant in comparison. That's just absurd, unless someone would want arguing books themselves could be changed as easily, which is... absurd of the higher order.

...but:
- lose monster-hunting as a profession along with equipment bias,
- rebuild a LOT of existing storyline or, rather, create a parallel one using the same events and areas,
- add a female sorceress protagonist,

...and it's not THAT different.

Monster-hunting for profit - check.
Melee/Magic capabilities (see: how Geralt had his leg broken) - check.
Politics - check.
Crafting - check.
Grey morality and choice-driven gameplay - check.
Slightly detached and misanthropic community - check.
Treated with contempt and fear - check (simply kick a protagonist from a social ladder for some reason, see: fate of non-corporate witches)

Impressive age - check.
Infertility - check.
Disease immunity - check.
The way you look causes emotional reactions regardless of a gender - check
Famous for promiscuity - check.
Disillusioned - check.
Emotional issues due to rigorous upbringing and various disorders your master/mistress (could) be having. - check.
No family to speak of, often discarded or virtually bought - check.
Prone to self-pity - check.
Over-educated and too eloquent for own good - check.


Obviously, it's completely different game when lore is taken into account. Copying Witcher's approach in terms of protagonist and background is not impossible, more like pointless when there's a genuine article available. As parallel story or, not just theoretically possible, a spin-off post-W3... why not. Certainly better and more interesting than certain *cough* half-goddess that would require both memory wipe and drastic disempowerment to be even remotely viable outside of "Throne of Bhaal"-ish story.

 

[theNater]

Maybe the game developer just wants a character to be a generic cipher, so they make them a white male, because that's what they themselves are, and it's what generic means to them.

You almost had it here, but then went somewhere else. The problem is not the relative abundance of white male protagonists in games. The problem is the unexamined and fairly widespread assumption that white male is "normal", because it carries an implicit belief that non-whites and women are "other". That's the root of all those "they're trying to take our games away" fears.

The frequency of white male protagonists is a measurable symptom of that problem. Worse, it's a self-reinforcing symptom; somebody carrying that assumption is not likely to find it challenged in today's game market. Having a better gender mix among protagonists would at least help encourage people to recognize that male and female are equally "normal", which is a step in the right direction.

 

[Thoraxington]

This is a well reasoned response to the whole shitstorm and actually illustrates why, even if you're for more representation in games, there are a handful of crucial caveats.

The biggest one is the fact that most game designers are straight white males. That's not their fault, it just makes it incredibly hard to craft an experience outside of that framework. "Write what you know" is a cliche for a reason.

That said, I still think there's room to explore gender in games from the other side, especially horror. Just look at Silent Hill 3. It's filled to the brim with symbolism and imagery that directly references body dysmoprhia disorder, teen pregnancy and the abject horror of bleeding from your vagina.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

I still maintain that the foremost problem when it comes to diversity in games is that there is still only a single title that puts its players in the shoes (or lack thereof) of a time-traveling cyborg dinosaur secret agent.

 

[Therumancer]

My basic thought is that when creating protagonists oftentimes the guys making a game have a very specific idea in mind, just like those creating books. It just doesn't inspire the same fire to take a fleshed out idea and need to modify it so it can work in a more gender inclusive fashion. I don't think a creator should be required to be politically correct and provide for all possibilities, or even just genders. If they do, it's nice, but it's not something that should be a requirement.

To put things into perspective look at the old "Gabriel Knight" games where the whole gimmick was to play as Gabriel Knight who was voiced by Tim Curry, and a lot of the interactions were based around him being a specific way. Had you changed it so you had an option to be Gabrielle Knight instead it wouldn't have worked with a simple gender change, and I don't think the needed changes were how the creators wanted to tell the story.

A more modern example would of course be something like "Dead Space" where the whole idea of the character being "Isaac Clarke" is a sort of joke as it's an unsubtle nod to two famous sci-fi authors. Likewise the plotline is very personal, and some of the little easter eggs (such as what the first letters of the different levels spell taken together) revolve around that.

At the same time the same thing works in reverse, the set up for a lot of games with female protagonists probably wouldn't play out right with a gender reversal, or you'd have to change around a lot of things including some of the little character specific bits.

I mean ideally it would be easy to be able to create equally deep gameplay experiences in a framework for a variety of potential protagonists, but like writers most gamer developers probably don't think in terms of "framework" and might actyally start out thinking of a cool character they want to tell stories about. Likewise every extra thing you do, or change and duplicate, takes effort. In a very character driven game, you could very well be doubling your workload to do it right, and with game budgets increasingly where they are... well... I can see why it's not on anyone's priority list.

I do have to admit there is some room for comedy for old school game geeks in terms of thinking about what a lot of games would look like with gender reversal. Given the role her dress played a couple of times, imagine what "Perils Of Rosella" would look like with a straight dude as the hero... what would the dude be wearing, giant parachute pants that would make MC Hammer go "whoa... dude... that's just too much".

 

[bojac6]

Maybe the game developer just wants a character to be a generic cipher, so they make them a white male, because that's what they themselves are, and it's what generic means to them.

You almost had it here, but then went somewhere else. The problem is not the relative abundance of white male protagonists in games. The problem is the unexamined and fairly widespread assumption that white male is "normal", because it carries an implicit belief that non-whites and women are "other". That's the root of all those "they're trying to take our games away" fears.

The frequency of white male protagonists is a measurable symptom of that problem. Worse, it's a self-reinforcing symptom; somebody carrying that assumption is not likely to find it challenged in today's game market. Having a better gender mix among protagonists would at least help encourage people to recognize that male and female are equally "normal", which is a step in the right direction.

Holy crap, Nater, I had to call this out because you are exactly right. You managed to phrase it so much more succintly and better than I too.

This, this is the best summary of the issue I've read right here.

 

[Darkness665]

Good piece, Yahtzee. On the discourse spot on. On choosing gender as a TWG (Typical White Guy) my first choice is female/thief/archer/ranger whenever possible. Second choice, if the game is rewarding enough to play twice is male. Why? I am a white guy, why the hell do I have to be one now? Give me a difference to work from. No females, fine. Give me a different race, a different skill tree. Games are fantasy, escapism and relaxation, for me. Boring is a silent TWG with a gun. Color me not excited. Blah.

The idea that the poor women must be protected has always struct me as incorrect. The women must protect the children. While each has their place, men, women and children the loss of the children means the future associated with them is dead. Not a good result to whoever takes up the sword to protect the tribe. While its true that one can have and raise more children the loss may not be recoverable. In many instances the best solution might well be the traditional, however. The strongest needs to protect the tribe. Strongest might mean smartest, the best with the bow or the sniper rifle. And gender may be interesting but it might not matter, certainly it won't matter if the tribe is lost.

Many of the modern game designers are lazy. Lazy creators chasing the whims of publishers. And the publishers are mostly suits that want safe investments with predicable, positive, returns. Which as has been stated on this site previously is exactly why Hollywood is a horrible festering wound. Both businesses are driven by blockbuster success. Anything less is being increasingly left to independents. Indie films and games can carry any torch while mainstream becomes even more a cliche. Which ultimately is a sad state of affairs.

 

[WhiteNachos]

I feel like this is mostly arguing against a strawman. I don't think a meaningful amount of people think every game should be allow you to choose your gender. AC:U got people annoyed because it's co-op focused, and Ubisoft gave a stupid excuse initially.

I don't think having a male protagonist is particularly an issue of misogyny or sexism, though it can make some misogynistic tropes an easy option for the lazy developer.

IIRC they complained about puppeteer not letting you be a woman just for the sake of it. Like there was no real reason to single out this game for having a male protagonist. Not that I can recall anyway.

 

[Vault101]

Are you talking about the first game? Because the Saints Row Boss I've played since Saints Row 2 is a sarcastic smart ass who will fangirl over Burt Reynolds one minute and take offense at being called a sociopath the next. The Boss is full to bursting with personality.

she's a hell of a lot more fun that shepard...I'll say that

OT: I....more or less agree with this, I think unless you've got a strong idea for the character (ala red dead or walking dead) then you should be able to give them their gender..not ALL the time but some of the time

like for example...what did we Gain by gving Korvo a backstory and preset gender?

This whole thing is something I'll never be able to understand. I guess some people really want to self-insert themselves into fantasy worlds and can't do that if the main character is not the same gender? That's really a shame, because you are missing out on a lot of amazing games by refusing to play as someone of the opposite gender, regardless of whether it's male or female.
.

1. it depends on how much room the game gives me, but generally I prefer to play as female..not because its "me" but because that's the kind of character I want to play....that doesn't mean it automatically makes something terrible bland as the elder scrolls engaging...but its something I like

2. however you spin it there aren't as many optertunites to play as a woman and even less for her to be preset...I'll play a booker dewit or John Marston any time of the day...dom't get me wrong...but when you've got that in-between space it gets boring

Y'know, maybe I'm just dumb, but I don't fully understand why anyone cares about which gender their player character is.

I certainly don't.
.

you might if you rarely got the chance and a pre-defined non optional game character was a rarity

Chell being female really did make a difference for me, I sympathised more, I related more...

 

[WhiteNachos]

Maybe the game developer just wants a character to be a generic cipher, so they make them a white male, because that's what they themselves are, and it's what generic means to them.

You almost had it here, but then went somewhere else. The problem is not the relative abundance of white male protagonists in games. The problem is the unexamined and fairly widespread assumption that white male is "normal", because it carries an implicit belief that non-whites and women are "other". That's the root of all those "they're trying to take our games away" fears.

You'd be right if that was the only thing people complained about in the social justice wars of video games but its not.

 

[Tuppence870]

I've honestly never seen gender (or race) as something important within a video game. Giving players the choice carries about the same weight as choosing between colours of car. Sure I could get this car in red, but I like blue, so I'll paint mine blue because blue is my colour and this is my car. Maybe next time I'll get one in red or repaint this one later if I feel like it. There may be certain social assumptions made about the car based upon its appearance (for example, red cars are often perceived to be faster), but in reality it's what's under the skin that makes the car what it is. But I wouldn't want this choice to be taken away from me, because my car would lose its personal touch.

My personal touch doesn't always mean that the character has to be a perfect representation of myself - it often just means that I have made contribution to the character that makes them unique to me. For example, in Test Drive Unlimited I chose the male Asian character (I was going to play as the white female one, but I got a s**tload of messages from guys who actually thought I was a girl), in Mass Effect Shepherd was a Native American man and in Saints Row I basically play as a British Black Dynamite (although sometimes I switch that out for a Russian Lara Croft). I created these characters. Admittedly their personalities don't differ much from other players' characters, but because I created them I have a personal attachment to them.

There's a game I had as a kid (and still play) called TimeSplitters. Admittedly it's a First Person Shooter with silent protagonists, but in every level of the campaign you have the choice between a male and a female character (with a different pair of characters for each level). Essentially this exists to give you different characters in Co-op (even though you can both play as the same character...), but it immediately gives the game both diversity and that personal touch. I've had girls play this game and they're happy to see to female side represented. But eventually we all end up playing both genders at some point, because it's nice to mix things up like that. Sadly the sequel forces you into one or the other depending on whether you're player 1 or 2, but even then you get a good share of both genders for each player (even in single player). More games should be like TimeSplitters (and in more ways than just gender equality - FPS's have never excited me as much as this underrated trilogy). Diversity and choice will always be good things, but more games need to realise this.

 

[Darkness665]

Unfortunately--and I refuse to ignore this part--the system as it is constructed hurts women a fuck of a lot more than it hurts men.

No. Just no./quote]
Yes, absolutely yes.

Your special cherry picked numbers ignore a significant amount of violence, yet focuses on the male as a victim.
Why? Because what you presented supports your views. But you don't even convey the other side: Violence against women, date rape, etc. etc. etc.

The data is missing something else. Who did the crime and what type of crime was it; Hate, criminal, familial violence, murder by vehicle or date rape on gay men? Most offenders in your list are most likely male as well. Take that as you will.

I got to look up MRA while reading these comments. Thanks for giving it meaning.

 

[Vault101]

To bad that yathzees arguments have in the past also been decryed as mysoginistic propaganda.

have they? I didn't notice

[quote/]At best this article will be ignored by the believers of the patriarchy and at worst they will try to scream him down just like they do with everyone else who doesnt share their view that there is a patriarchiumati at work in the games industry whose goal is to bring back the 1920s[/quote]
the 1920's were awesome! jazz! art deco! and Flappers! who wouldn't want to be a flapper?

If you want your main character to be bland, have little personality, and sabotage the narrative of your game - by all means let the player choose the gender.

Fallout New Vegas got the right balance IMO....I hate the elder-scroll games because of the "walking camera" syndrome but I think there is a balance to be found


[quote/]Better to have a game like The Witcher where your character is already a character and then they let you choose stuff than a game where the main character is so characterless that even their gender can be switched without any impact to the story.[/quote]
I think this has an element of subjectivity and personal taste...you can't definitively say ones style is better than the other

also this would be nice if we had "non-optional" female leads but we really don't

 

[Darkness665]

Being demure is more than just being polite or timid. It's a specific, rather gendered way of behaving. None of the men in Dark Souls are demure.

Big Hat Logan's apprentice was demure at best. A few dictionaries might connect demure with a woman but that is not actually consistent with the language. It refers to not drawing attention to one's self nor does timid appear in common usage.

Using the view of a crazy person to use as a definitive basis for 'being a lady' is delusional, but more likely it was just a troll.

 

[Spanglish Guy]

I would think that it would depend on the game itself. If the creators of the game have a specific view of what the character is going to be like be then it is down to them whether the character be male or female, generally more story focused games where the main character has a pre defined personality. Otherwise, having the option of gender probably couldn't hurt.