Should I bother with Baldur's Gate?

[The Madman]

The mod now also works with BGEE(and it worked with BGT as well, so tutu isn't required at all). I will agree that it is a must have mod for the game.

Does it? Last time I checked the mod was still in the beta phase with a few part-time enthusiasts working on it when they could and having just barely gotten it partially functional with the Enhanced Edition.

I've been wanting to replay the BG series and want to give the Enhanced Edition a try, but all the same I'm not replaying the original BG without the NPC mod so I've been waiting all this time for it to be made fully compatible. If it means waiting a few months more for a proper release of the mod to be finished, I'm willing to wait.

All I recall is a black/white world, soap opera romances and annoying Bioware style humour.

That's not really a fair comparison to make given that Baldur's Gate was made over fifteen years ago and that there is literally not a single person still working for Bioware today that worked on the Baldur's Gate back then. Even the two founding doctors of Bioware have since left. The Bioware that exists today and has existed for many years now is a completely different one from the Bioware that made Baldur's Gate all those years ago.

I'd also argue that your complaint about cohesion makes it sound more like you were hoping for Baldur's Gate to be something is is not rather than a valid complaint with the actual game and setting, as BG is nothing if not consistent with its source material. Sounds to me like you were hoping for something more darker in tone ala Game of Thrones or The Witcher as opposed to the traditional Heroic Fantasy that defines setting such as Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance and by extension Baldur's Gate.

 

[The Madman]

Off hand I can think of David Gaider and Lukas Kristjanson who are both still senior writers at Bioware so that is incorrect.

Hah, you're right actually. For some reason I thought Gaider had left Bioware a few years ago, seems I was wrong. Never heard of the other one, but googling his name reveals you're right again. My mistake.

Just because the source material lacks any meaningful cohesion that does not render complaints against BG's lack of meaningful cohesion null... Indeed, those are two settings I have enjoyed far more and believe have inspired far greater games then BG.

Here I continue to disagree. The way you initially phrased your comment was trying to make it sound like Baldur's Gate is a tonally inconsistent mess, which it isn't. It simply isn't the tone that you happen to have wanted it to have, in which case that's as valid a complaint as me saying I dislike Game of Thrones because there aren't enough wizard duels or griffins in it or The Witcher for having too many sexy times.

Fair enough from my own perspective but also not really a valid complaint either, since it's a personal preference as opposed to a problem with the product itself. In any case I obviously love Baldur's Gate, corny fantasy soap opera story and all, and you don't. Shame, but then that's life for ya.

OP's already got the game now and I guess all we can do is wait and see what he thinks.

 

[Scars Unseen]

The mod now also works with BGEE(and it worked with BGT as well, so tutu isn't required at all). I will agree that it is a must have mod for the game.

Does it? Last time I checked the mod was still in the beta phase with a few part-time enthusiasts working on it when they could and having just barely gotten it partially functional with the Enhanced Edition.

I've been wanting to replay the BG series and want to give the Enhanced Edition a try, but all the same I'm not replaying the original BG without the NPC mod so I've been waiting all this time for it to be made fully compatible. If it means waiting a few months more for a proper release of the mod to be finished, I'm willing to wait.

It's technically in a pre-release state, though the only two known problems are with BGEE itself(and those will be fixed with the upcoming 1.3 patch). The problems are fairly minor(saving and reloading while a party member is dead may cause their dialogue to reset, and player initiated dialogue with Montaron will cause him to leave the party if your rep is over 12), and as I said, they aren't really problems with the mod itself anyway.

I'm using it in my current playthrough, and I haven't run into any problems yet.

 

[Unspoken_Request]

I'd also argue that your complaint about cohesion makes it sound more like you were hoping for Baldur's Gate to be something is is not rather than a valid complaint with the actual game and setting, as BG is nothing if not consistent with its source material.

And evidently I dislike its source material.

Just because the source material lacks any meaningful cohesion that does not render complaints against BG's lack of meaningful cohesion null.

Sounds to me like you were hoping for something more darker in tone ala Game of Thrones or The Witcher.

Indeed, those are two settings I have enjoyed far more and believe have inspired far greater games then BG.

That is what you should have said from the start.
You do not like the standard D&D high fantasy setting. Not gritty enough for you. It is a perfectly honest opinion, but my initial comment on your post stands: the way you initially phrased your comment was very much like faulting KOTOR for being too "starwarsy".

As Madman said, BG is very close to its source material. Yet, you were faulting the game for having too many D&D/standard fantasy tropes, without recognizing that the issue is your distate of the source material.

All I recall is a black/white world, soap opera romances.

While I agree that it is a video game set in fantasy world and that you should not be expecting Marcel Proust, I think your memory is mostly at fault here. There are some cliches in the story (it is a high fantasy setting after all!), but it is far less cliche than many other video game of the genre (Skyrim for instance).

A few examples to support my point:

Spoiler

First, one of the main story driver of the first Baldur's Gate is an iron shortage that is disrupting trade along the Sword Coast and resulting in diplomatic tensions between the Country of Amn and the city-state of Baldur's Gate. I fail to see how this is cliche fantasy world stuff. This is a also pretty cohesive plot.

Second, contrary to MANY video games, you are not "the one destined to save the world". You are special in a way, but there are many many others in your situation. By the end of BG2 Throne of Bhaal, you have not saved the world. You have only chosen a path for yourself (and contributed in ending a war in the process).

Finally, the story is NOT about good versus evil. Your character can be as evil or as good as he wants (or something in-between). Irenicus (BG2's main vilain) is not a purely evil guy either (he has his motivations and you learn more about them in the game). To be honest, I find that the choice of actions and dialogue are often more sophisticated than Mass Effect's Paragon/Renegade system

 

[Unspoken_Request]

That is what you should have said from the start.

You do not like the standard D&D high fantasy setting. Not gritty enough for you.

I never said I took issue with the lack of "grittiness".

Unless you believe a cohesive setting correlates to grittiness.

True, but it is easy to infer from your taste in gaming thatyou think grittiness = cohesive. Sorry if I am wrong, but that is what I assumed given that you have not provided any specific examples of what you consider cohesive or non-cohesive. It would be helpful for you to provide a specific example of what you dont like, I am not even sure why in your view BG is less cohesive than Dragon Age.

As Madman said, BG is very close to its source material. Yet, you were faulting the game for having too many D&D/standard fantasy tropes, without recognizing that the issue is your distate of the source material.

Being close to Forgotten Realms source material doesn't excuse it from being a shitty smorgasbord setting that lacks cohesiveness.

BG is capturing perfetly what the Forgotten Realms is. What I think you need to understand is that the "shitty smorgasbord setting" that you do not like IS the standard Forgoten Realms/D&D setting, not BG particularly.

You cannot fault BG for this without faulting the Forgotten Realms and D&D. You might as well be saying: "I wish that this game was not set in the Forgotten Realms."

This is a perfectly fine opinion, but it is no different than saying that you wished KOTOR did not take place in the Star Wars universe.

 

[Rack]

I love Baldurs Gate but struggle a bit to recommend it because you need to get au fait with D&D rules, mod it up with TuTu and the interesting npcs mod and endure some awkward times at level 1. Since you've done all that though you should be up for a great tactical RPG.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Being close to Forgotten Realms source material doesn't excuse it from being a shitty smorgasbord setting that lacks cohesiveness.

Forgotten Realms is plenty cohesive as a setting, but a lot of that was lost in translation to Baldur's Gate.
Well, that's not entirely accurate either...the flavor and nuanced references to the setting are everywhere for folks who know them, but to anyone unfamiliar with the setting, it's going to wiz right by.

And that in fact IS a fault of Bioware in regards to cohesion, though I understand why they didn't include everything.
(in setting, there's a lot more going on within the factions you deal with in BG and BG2; like the Shadow Thieves of Amn and the Harpers for example. The PC's interactions barely scratch the surface.)

For folks like me who got uncomfortably familiar with FR for the sake of running it (I'm not nearly as big a fan of FR as I am some other settings), BG was pretty damn good. I'm especially glad I wasn't buried up to my neck in Salvatore Mary Sue sewage.

 

[Unspoken_Request]

Being close to Forgotten Realms source material doesn't excuse it from being a shitty smorgasbord setting that lacks cohesiveness.

Forgotten Realms is plenty cohesive as a setting, but a lot of that was lost in translation to Baldur's Gate.
Well, that's not entirely accurate either...the flavor and nuanced references to the setting are everywhere for folks who know them, but to anyone unfamiliar with the setting, it's going to wiz right by.

And that in fact IS a fault of Bioware in regards to cohesion, though I understand why they didn't include everything.
(in setting, there's a lot more going on within the factions you deal with in BG and BG2; like the Shadow Thieves of Amn and the Harpers for example. The PC's interactions barely scratch the surface.)

For folks like me who got uncomfortably familiar with FR for the sake of running it (I'm not nearly as big a fan of FR as I am some other settings), BG was pretty damn good. I'm especially glad I wasn't buried up to my neck in Salvatore Mary Sue sewage.

That is interesting. I agree with you on factions and all that,they are not well integrated in the game for those who do not know much about FR. This said, I thought Nil Kafashle was referring to fantasy tropes not being cohesive (i.e. elves, dwarves, creatures not being well integrated in a cohesive manner).


I however do not agree that Forgotten Realms is very cohesive (talking about D&D 2nd edition Forgotten Realms here, as this is what BG is based on). There are just too many factions, gods, races, creatures that it sometimes does not feel like a lived-in world, and more like an adventurer theme park (I am caricaturing here, I liked FR when I was playingD&D and it still has some great underlying narratives). It is often very unclear how ordinary people live within this world, as there seems to be evil creatures/orcs/evil wizards everywhere. Political system inside countries and diplomatic relationships are not always coherent. The most coherent stuff is probably the relationships and conflicts between the gods.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I however do not agree that Forgotten Realms is very cohesive (talking about D&D 2nd edition Forgotten Realms here, as this is what BG is based on). There are just too many factions, gods, races, creatures that it sometimes does not feel like a lived-in world, and more like an adventurer theme park (I am caricaturing here, I liked FR when I was playingD&D and it still has some great underlying narratives). It is often very unclear how ordinary people live within this world, as there seems to be evil creatures/orcs/evil wizards everywhere. Political system inside countries and diplomatic relationships are not always coherent. The most coherent stuff is probably the relationships and conflicts between the gods.

Well, it depends on how much fluff you've read and how you use it. I had a ton of fluff books dumped into my possession at one point explicitly to get me to DM so I had to take in a lot of material at one time to make something cohesive.

As it turned out, I'm quite good at ad-libbing, so maybe I'm exaggerating the cohesion a bit since I tend to fill in the gaps. It's become a thing where a number of my throwaway NPCs become recurring characters (and villains).
And all of that is obviously outside of the canon of the setting.

On the other hand, I do try to retain the theme of the setting at a given period, and this is something Forgotten Realms is especially erratic about. Take for example the seemingly endless war trope.

"Warring orcs (and especially Drow in FR) vs civilization" is fine once in a while, but it doesn't make sense for that to keep occurring repeatedly in the same time period. A few other settings are guilty of "endless war" trope, which completely undermines the fact that without periods of peace and construction, the potential for war diminishes greatly as population and infrastructure is lost.

Forgotten Realms games are COMPLETELY addicted to using that sort of conflict as the basis for their stories, and the "regular, daily life" aspect of the setting tends to get, well, forgotten. (it's nothing short of miraculous that Rashemon and Thay still exist)

 

[subskipper]

I had the original Baldur's Gate on disc way back when (I think I still have it somewhere) but bough the Enhanced Edition for iPad just last night. I was planning to play my way through this over the next month or so, and the start was encouraging. I like the gameplay and really look forward to get properly stuck in, but one thing annoys the bejeezus out of me. I don't see any intuitive ways of getting spell descriptions to show for my magic wielders. It is quite frustrating early in the game before you learn all the various symbols for the spells. Last night saw me cast random spells for about ten minutes before I started to get which ones were which. Anyone else tried this on iPad or similar?

 

[Starbird]

Dragon Age: Origins is one of my favorite games of all time. Looking for another game similar to it, I discovered that it's the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, and now I'm curious about it. I was wondering, do you think I'd like Baldur's Gate if I liked Dragon Age? I've also heard that the second game is considerably better than the first. Should I even play the first, or just skip to the second?

EDIT: Also, if anybody knows of any other games similar to Dragon Age, feel free to list them.

EDIT: Thanks for all the responses and recommendations. I've decided to try a few games, as they're all quite cheap right now. I've gotten Neverwinter Nights 2, and both Baldur's Gates (I'm currently installing the Tutu mod).

First impression of BG 1 (with Tutu and party member dialogue mods installed): First off, I'll give some details on my character. I created a half-elf fighter / mage, with proficiency in longswords and dual-wielding (being unfamiliar with D&D, I didn't realize until later that he was rather derivative of Drizzt Do'Urden). I started out with a pretty good roll of 91, and my stats are distributed thus:

Character Name: Anomander
Strength: 18
Dexterity: 17
Constitution: 16
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom: 12
Charisma: 10

I've just gotten to Nashkel and rested at the inn for the night. So far, I'm enjoying the combat. I've heard that the high rate of missed attacks could be very frustrating at the start of the game, but due to my character's high strength stat, it hasn't been too much of a problem. I've been enjoying the difficulty (which has felt fair so far), as well as the freedom the game gives me to roam about the map between towns. It's been a while since a game has been willing to let me run off to an area where I'm sure to get my ass kicked, and I love the sense of danger that comes with it. So far I only have one slot for spells, which is usually occupied by some sort of buff to augment my melee combat. I might try out some offensive spells when I have a few more slots.

The plot hasn't developed into anything particularly noteworthy yet, but it has grabbed my attention, and the world already feels intriguing, due to rumors heard in taverns. The dialogue mod has also made the game more interesting, and the characters feel far more alive than they did in the short time I played un-modded.

BG is a slow burn. Very slow. Like...you need to be pretty far in before you even start to smell smoke. And it only really catches on fire in Baldur's Gate 2.

That said, you should absolutely bother. It's probably the best western RPG ever made.

 

[Tawanda]

Character Name: Anomander
.

as in Anomander Rake? From Malzan series?

Also yes play baldurs gate its worth it

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

I was sick of other BioWare fans whining about how I couldn't say this or that about their console era IP's (KotOR was my first BioWare game), unless I played Baldur's Gate, so eventually I bought the collected 4-in-1 edition. And honestly? I found it impossibly boring and very hard work.

...that said, everyone does seem to agree BG2 is well worth playing, so I do intend to push on through the original just to see what the fuss is about with the sequel.

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

Tried Baldurs Gate a few times in the last couple of years but kept bouncing off it. Though I decided to give the game another go when I bought the Enhanced Edition on sale. Still took me another 3 to get far attempts as I tried to get to grips with the mechanics. For example I initially was unsure of what the point of having mages at all, as at the beginning they can only cast one spell before having to rest and be able cast again. Though now I've been playing for a good few hours, got a full party at level 5-6 and starting to really enjoy the game.

I will say that the game does show its age a lot. It has a slow burn and is a little light on the interesting side quest and dialogue generally expected of rpg's since[footenote]based on what I've played so far[/footnote] but if you can get past that it certainly at enjoyable experience. Though from what I've heard BG2 revolves a lot of those issues, if so I'll look forward to playing through that once I'm done with the BG1.

 

[endtherapture]

I was sick of other BioWare fans whining about how I couldn't say this or that about their console era IP's (KotOR was my first BioWare game), unless I played Baldur's Gate, so eventually I bought the collected 4-in-1 edition. And honestly? I found it impossibly boring and very hard work.

...that said, everyone does seem to agree BG2 is well worth playing, so I do intend to push on through the original just to see what the fuss is about with the sequel.

You're probably just too young for it or in the wrong mindset. BG games are deep, slow games with a lot of fairly abstract game mechanics and little cinematic presentation. They're not for everyone but that's fine if you don't enjoy it, they are masterpieces though, I can still enjoy them over 10 years on from their release.

 

[AtomChicken]

@ OP: Fuck yes, it may be old, but BG was a trend setter and one of Bioware's founding cornerstones.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

Character Name: Anomander
.

as in Anomander Rake? From Malzan series?

Yep, the very same. Although, considering that my character was dual-wielding longswords, maybe Silchas would have been more appropriate.