Should I get Wing Commander: Privateer?

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Neverhoodian

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So I was browsing the Good Old Games website a few days ago when I noticed that Wing Commander: Privateer was added to their catalog. I thought it was pretty strange timing, as I also recently watched a video review by Noah "Spoony" Antwiler where he stated that Privateer is one of his all-time favorite games.

The things I've heard about Privateer intrigues me, particularly its "open world" gameplay that allows the player to ignore the main story and pursue any mission they want. I've watched a few gameplay videos on Youtube, and it looks like fun. I've never played any of the Wing Commander games, but I kind of know the basic premise (human Terran Confederation vs. anthropomorphic feline Kilrathi Empire). Also, some of my favorite games of all time are the old school Star Wars space combat games like X-Wing and Tie Fighter.

Based on this information, do you think Privateer would be worth my time and $6 to download?
 

Antari

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Nov 4, 2009
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Its an awesome game, but it isn't nessisary to buy it. The company that made it hasn't existed in around 15 years, and no one has purchased the copyright. Thats abandonware. All that Good Old Games has done is setup a specific config file for Dosbox to run on your system for it. If its worth $6 for them to do that for ya, then goto town. If you know how to use Dosbox you can save yourself some money though.

Most old Origin Systems games were very picky with memory, they'd use XMS instead of EMS memory making them a bit of a pain to get working.

In general though yes its one of the true classics. I still play it to this day.
 

Frost27

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Jun 3, 2011
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I had a ridiculous amount of fun playing Privateer. I was always a huge fan of the Wing Commander games (except Prophecy) and I was pleasantly surprised that Privateer managed to fit seamlessly into the Wing Commander universe and still maintain a feel and character all it's own.

I was somewhat less thrilled with the expansion, though it was still fun. Privateer 2 I don't remember all that much of aside from it starring a young Clive Owen and being a whole lot like freelancer.
 

TheAD

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Antari said:
but it isn't nessisary to buy it. The company that made it hasn't existed in around 15 years, and no one has purchased the copyright. Thats abandonware. All that Good Old Games has done is setup a specific config file for Dosbox to run on your system for it. If its worth $6 for them to do that for ya, then goto town. If you know how to use Dosbox you can save yourself some money though.
This just isn't true at all. I understand that people like getting stuff for free. Free stuff is great. The fact is though that Origin Systems was bought out by EA back around 1992. EA owns the copyright on pretty much all of the old Origin IPs. That includes Wing Commander and Privateer (Infact, Privateer was developed and was released after the buyout). Also, Origin as a sub-entity of EA didn't actually totally disapear until 2004... that's 7 years ago.

No matter how you look at it Privateer isn't abandonware. GOG wouldn't need to make a deal with EA to provide it if it was. But you can call it whatever you want if it makes you feel better about your choice of obtaining said game. Even if EA decided to give the game away it still wouldn't be abandonware. It would be freeware.
 

Danceofmasks

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Oh yes.
This game is amazing.

That is, if you like a game where you can ignore the main plot, and do space ... stuff.
Like be a trader or mercenary or pirate or whatever .. making money, customising your ship ...
 

Antari

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Nov 4, 2009
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TheAD said:
Antari said:
but it isn't nessisary to buy it. The company that made it hasn't existed in around 15 years, and no one has purchased the copyright. Thats abandonware. All that Good Old Games has done is setup a specific config file for Dosbox to run on your system for it. If its worth $6 for them to do that for ya, then goto town. If you know how to use Dosbox you can save yourself some money though.
This just isn't true at all. I understand that people like getting stuff for free. Free stuff is great. The fact is though that Origin Systems was bought out by EA back around 1992. EA owns the copyright on pretty much all of the old Origin IPs. That includes Wing Commander and Privateer (Infact, Privateer was developed and was released after the buyout). Also, Origin as a sub-entity of EA didn't actually totally disapear until 2004... that's 7 years ago.

No matter how you look at it Privateer isn't abandonware. GOG wouldn't need to make a deal with EA to provide it if it was. But you can call it whatever you want if it makes you feel better about your choice of obtaining said game. Even if EA decided to give the game away it still wouldn't be abandonware. It would be freeware.
And thats where your wrong. Yes EA bought Origin Systems, they however did NOT resubmit copyright on either the Ultima Series(With the exception of Ultima Online), Savage Empire, The Wing Commander series, Strike Commander, and Omega. They ARE abandonware. The only thing they haven't done it gone open source.

Also Privateer 2 is the one your thinking about that was developed after the buyout.
 

TheAD

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Antari said:
And thats where your wrong. Yes EA bought Origin Systems, they however did NOT resubmit copyright on either the Ultima Series(With the exception of Ultima Online), Savage Empire, The Wing Commander series, Strike Commander, and Omega. They ARE abandonware. The only thing they haven't done it gone open source.

Also Privateer 2 is the one your thinking about that was developed after the buyout.
First, the Origin sale was September 10th, 1992. The original Privateer was released a year later is September of 1993. Privateer 2 was 1996. Those are both after the buyout. Same with every Wing Commander game other than the first one. Same with Strike Commander.

Savage Empire and a bunch of the early Ultimas came out before the buyout. Though the only part of the IP that Richard Garriot still has rights to is the Lord British character. EA retains the rights to the ultima series itself.

Also you display a fundamental misunderstanding of copyright law. Here are the basics for the US:


Copyright literally means the right to copy.

In the United States, the Library of Congress officialy registers copyrights which now last for the life of the author plus 70 years. No one else can profit or copy your ideas without your permission during this time period.

Your works of art, music, etc, all have copyright protection with or without formal copyright registration with the Library of Congress or any other copyright office. However, copyright registration adds proof of copyright ownership and aids you in fighting copyright infringement.

Like any other property, any or all of the copyright owner's exclusive rights may be transferred. Most often transfers of copyright are made by contract. The transfer of exclusive rights is not valid unless that transfer is in writing and signed by the owner or the owner's lawyer or authorized agent. Transfer of rights on a nonexclusive basis does not require a written agreement.

The Copyright Office does not provide any forms for transfer contracts, you have to provide your own. However, you can make a record the transfer of copyright ownership in the Copyright Office.
Re-registration wasn't required as part of the Sale of Origin to EA. Even if you went down to the copyright office yourself to see if the transfer of rights was registered, It wouldn't matter as long as that transfer was spelled out in the sale contract of Origin to EA.

Also, what would be the point in paying for a company if you didn't also transfer the intelectual property rights along with the sale? It's the IP That is valuable. You can just as easily hire your own staff to make whatever space shooter fantasy rpg clone you feel like. Of course that only matter regarding Privateer if it came out before the buyout, which it didn't so you are still wrong.

It's essential that we don't confuse *TRADEMARK* with copyright.

Trademarks rights must be maintained through actual lawful use of the trademark. These rights will cease if a mark is not actively used for a period of time, normally 5 years in most jurisdictions. In the case of a trademark registration, failure to actively use the mark in the lawful course of trade, or to enforce the registration in the event of infringement, may also expose the registration itself to become liable for an application for the removal from the register after a certain period of time on the grounds of "non-use". It is not necessary for a trademark owner to take enforcement action against all infringement if it can be shown that the owner perceived the infringement to be minor and inconsequential.
Trademarks do run out after non-use. But that doesn't relate to the game content. This has to do with branding. Basically I register my company name as a trademark to prevent someone from releasing a copycat product with the same name. So Electronics arts regregistered the trademark of a bunch of the old ORigin IPS only a year or two ago. All this means is that a different company can't put out a game called Wing COmmander or Ultima even if it's based one an entirely different universe.
 

ColeusRattus

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Ah, Privateer. Have played it obsessively back when i was a wee little lad, and I too regard it as one of my all time favourite games.

BUT, and that's an extra huge BUT, if you don't have nostalgic feelings for it, you might be in for a bad surprise. The graphics are aweful, the sound is bad, gameplay is confusing and difficult. At least by today's standards. So while it might be an interesting experience, it will most likely leave you underwhelmed.

It's just like threads by the young'uns asking what was great about half-life 2: you had to be there to truly experience the greatness.

But then, with the space action genre almost died out, and resrticted to shallow action games or focused on strategy or ecnonomics, there isn't really a contemporary game to compare it to.
 

Antari

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Nov 4, 2009
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TheAD said:
Antari said:
And thats where your wrong. Yes EA bought Origin Systems, they however did NOT resubmit copyright on either the Ultima Series(With the exception of Ultima Online), Savage Empire, The Wing Commander series, Strike Commander, and Omega. They ARE abandonware. The only thing they haven't done it gone open source.

Also Privateer 2 is the one your thinking about that was developed after the buyout.
First, the Origin sale was September 10th, 1992. The original Privateer was released a year later is September of 1993. Privateer 2 was 1996. Those are both after the buyout. Same with every Wing Commander game other than the first one. Same with Strike Commander.

Savage Empire and a bunch of the early Ultimas came out before the buyout. Though the only part of the IP that Richard Garriot still has rights to is the Lord British character. EA retains the rights to the ultima series itself.

Also you display a fundamental misunderstanding of copyright law. Here are the basics for the US:


Copyright literally means the right to copy.

In the United States, the Library of Congress officialy registers copyrights which now last for the life of the author plus 70 years. No one else can profit or copy your ideas without your permission during this time period.

Your works of art, music, etc, all have copyright protection with or without formal copyright registration with the Library of Congress or any other copyright office. However, copyright registration adds proof of copyright ownership and aids you in fighting copyright infringement.

Like any other property, any or all of the copyright owner's exclusive rights may be transferred. Most often transfers of copyright are made by contract. The transfer of exclusive rights is not valid unless that transfer is in writing and signed by the owner or the owner's lawyer or authorized agent. Transfer of rights on a nonexclusive basis does not require a written agreement.

The Copyright Office does not provide any forms for transfer contracts, you have to provide your own. However, you can make a record the transfer of copyright ownership in the Copyright Office.
Re-registration wasn't required as part of the Sale of Origin to EA. Even if you went down to the copyright office yourself to see if the transfer of rights was registered, It wouldn't matter as long as that transfer was spelled out in the sale contract of Origin to EA.

Also, what would be the point in paying for a company if you didn't also transfer the intelectual property rights along with the sale? It's the IP That is valuable. You can just as easily hire your own staff to make whatever space shooter fantasy rpg clone you feel like. Of course that only matter regarding Privateer if it came out before the buyout, which it didn't so you are still wrong.

It's essential that we don't confuse *TRADEMARK* with copyright.

Trademarks rights must be maintained through actual lawful use of the trademark. These rights will cease if a mark is not actively used for a period of time, normally 5 years in most jurisdictions. In the case of a trademark registration, failure to actively use the mark in the lawful course of trade, or to enforce the registration in the event of infringement, may also expose the registration itself to become liable for an application for the removal from the register after a certain period of time on the grounds of "non-use". It is not necessary for a trademark owner to take enforcement action against all infringement if it can be shown that the owner perceived the infringement to be minor and inconsequential.
Trademarks do run out after non-use. But that doesn't relate to the game content. This has to do with branding. Basically I register my company name as a trademark to prevent someone from releasing a copycat product with the same name. So Electronics arts regregistered the trademark of a bunch of the old ORigin IPS only a year or two ago. All this means is that a different company can't put out a game called Wing COmmander or Ultima even if it's based one an entirely different universe.
The key point is they haven't renewed any claims over the software which puts it squarely in open domain, also known as abandonware. The only thing Good Old Games has done is take DOSBox and open source emulator and create a config file so that it will run privateer on modern windows based machines. They didn't work out any special deal with Electronic Arts so don't kid yourself. If Electronic Arts at some point in the future decides they want to reclaim those rights they have the right to. But they haven't. Its perfectly legal and moral and its as far as I'm willing to discuss it.
 

TheAD

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Oct 7, 2010
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Antari said:
The key point is they haven't renewed any claims over the software which puts it squarely in open domain, also known as abandonware.
This sentence doesn't compute. Open domain? I might lend you my lawnmower. Just because I'm not using it right now doesn't give you the right to just take it though even if I don't intend to charge you to use it. I actually don't really care what you do or don't do, but lets not pretend it's someting it isn't.

If we're using abandonware as a blanket term for stuff that the big companies aren't bothering to prosecute at the moment,then fine. Though EA does regularly send abandoware sites C&Ds. They just wait for things to die down and put the links back up.

Actual true abandonware pretty much doesn't exist though. There's only a handful of titles from companies that actually disapeared without a transfer of rights. You can't even use the excuse of access anymore for Privateer either (if ea would rerelease it I wouldn't have to pirate it...)


The only thing Good Old Games has done is take DOSBox and open source emulator and create a config file so that it will run privateer on modern windows based machines. They didn't work out any special deal with Electronic Arts so don't kid yourself. If Electronic Arts at some point in the future decides they want to reclaim those rights they have the right to. But they haven't. Its perfectly legal and moral and its as far as I'm willing to discuss it.
Didn't work out a deal with EA? Are you for real?: http://www.gog.com/en/news/gog_com_s_catalog_gets_huge_with_addition_of_classic_ea_titles

If they weren't waiting for a deal why did they wait so long?

Why do I get the sense that you aren't so much trying to convince us as to justify it to yourself?
 

Antari

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Nov 4, 2009
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TheAD said:
Antari said:
The key point is they haven't renewed any claims over the software which puts it squarely in open domain, also known as abandonware.
This sentence doesn't compute. Open domain? I might lend you my lawnmower. Just because I'm not using it right now doesn't give you the right to just take it though even if I don't intend to charge you to use it. I actually don't really care what you do or don't do, but lets not pretend it's someting it isn't. Actual true abandonware pretty much doesn't exist. There's only a handful of titles from companies that actually disapeared without a transfer of rights. You can't even use the excuse of access anymore for Privateer either (if ea would rerelease it I wouldn't have to pirate it...)

The only thing Good Old Games has done is take DOSBox and open source emulator and create a config file so that it will run privateer on modern windows based machines. They didn't work out any special deal with Electronic Arts so don't kid yourself. If Electronic Arts at some point in the future decides they want to reclaim those rights they have the right to. But they haven't. Its perfectly legal and moral and its as far as I'm willing to discuss it.
Didn't work out a deal with EA? Are you for real?: http://www.gog.com/en/news/gog_com_s_catalog_gets_huge_with_addition_of_classic_ea_titles

If they weren't waiting for a deal why did they wait so long?

Why do I get the sense that you aren't so much trying to convince us as to justify it to yourself?
Steam has done the same thing with a number of games that fall into this catagory, the fact that GOG is doing it really isn't shocking. Why did they wait so long? I can't answer that for you, you'll have to ask GOG. Its more to the point that I'm not here to waste my time proving everything I say to everyone. If you really feel its that important to you, go look up all the information you need to. I know I'm covered.
 

TheAD

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Oct 7, 2010
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ColeusRattus said:
Ah, Privateer. Have played it obsessively back when i was a wee little lad, and I too regard it as one of my all time favourite games.

BUT, and that's an extra huge BUT, if you don't have nostalgic feelings for it, you might be in for a bad surprise. The graphics are aweful, the sound is bad, gameplay is confusing and difficult. At least by today's standards. So while it might be an interesting experience, it will most likely leave you underwhelmed.

It's just like threads by the young'uns asking what was great about half-life 2: you had to be there to truly experience the greatness.

But then, with the space action genre almost died out, and resrticted to shallow action games or focused on strategy or ecnonomics, there isn't really a contemporary game to compare it to.
I think the art style holds up fairly well. The low resolution does hurt the game a bit though you can tweak some of the filters in dosbox to smooth it out a bit... I'd argue it doesn't really look better that way though. The issue I have with the gameplay though is more that the ideal control is a joystick. Not many people have those laying around anymore and it's pretty much impossible to fly mouse in Privateer IIRC. I've had good success mapping the controls to a gamepad though. Flying works pretty well with one but the buttonmapping is time consuming to workout. I don't know if GOG's setup does that for you or not.

It really does need a tutorial though to take you through the first stages of the game. Nowadays the expectation is that the game will explain everything to you when back in the day I'd read through the manuals as soon as I opened the gamebox (Origin used to have the best extras packed in with the game back in the day). Otherwise I think the depth of gameplay and story rivals much of what is out today. In many ways this can be kind of looked at like a precursor to alot of the open world games like GTA though many of those don't have the trading economy or monetary system.

THe most recent game I can think of that could be looked at as a sort of unoffical sucessor would be Freelancer, and that's a number of years old itself.
 

Frost27

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Jun 3, 2011
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Antari is in fact correct regarding Wing Commander 1, 2, WC: Academy, Omega, and Strike Commander. They are currently classified as abandonware, available for legal free download online (www.abandonia.com), and not protected by the ESA or any current copyright.
 

Calbeck

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Jul 13, 2008
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Frost27 said:
Antari is in fact correct regarding Wing Commander 1, 2, WC: Academy, Omega, and Strike Commander. They are currently classified as abandonware, available for legal free download online (www.abandonia.com), and not protected by the ESA or any current copyright.
Already been covered, already confirmed as incorrect. Additionally, claiming that a game is "abandonware" won't help you in court...instead, the judge will stare at you for a moment like you just started speaking in Welsh, and then bang the gavel with a guilty verdict.

EDIT: Not even Wikipedia agrees with you (and if anyone were to try and push this fallacy as "real", they'd prolly try it there first).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

In most cases, software classed as abandonware is not in the public domain, as it has never had its original copyright revoked and some company or individual still owns exclusive rights. Therefore, sharing of such software is usually considered copyright infringement, though in practice copyright holders rarely enforce their abandonware copyrights.
TL;DR: REAL abandonware are simply those games which the copyright owners don't care enough about to sue over. If you want to take the slight risk that someone might eventually sue you over it, feel free...but it's still piracy.